Should 4WD'ers require a special licence?

Post by **Aus4wd** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:29 am

Seeing as I can't locate a poll on this on Today Tonight's website, we can have one ourselves and show our side to the story.

What is your opinion???

Post by **HeathGQ** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:34 am

I think it will come to teh arguemant of 'WHat do we get for that license"

If it means weare loooked at more favourably for access to areas, then yes.

If its just a revenue, no!

You cant just say 'license'..... How do you get the 'license'? What does it do after you get it? lots of questions .......

Post by **Ben** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:43 am

I say yes, so long as its used for the right reasons. If it gets everyone off our backs then great.

But then I think you should need a license of a lot of things...perhaps pedestrians should need a license, as part of their testing you can challenge them to pick to walk on either...
a) the road or
b) the footpath

Then if they walk on the road they get cleaned up by a big truck, fail the test and they wont be a problem on the roads for us...those that pass realise they should stick to the footpath.

Post by **Daisy** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:55 am

A licence for offroad use only would be very beneficial.

eg knowledge of recovery sitatuions would be regarded as one of the criteria in the licence.

how many accidents are there related to wrong use of shackles and winches?

How many people out there know to lower their tyre pressures on sand?

How many peopple know what to bring along to an offroad trip?

I define offroad as not on the butimen - which is basically sand, dirt, mud, snow and rocks.

I see havin an offroad licence very beneficial for the saftety of the environment and the community.

just my 2c

TOM

Post by **bad_religion_au** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:08 pm

i think done right, a licence for all road users if they drive a 4x4 will be benificial, as those soccer mums (and dads) in 100's, disco's, and paj's really shit me sometimes with their inability.

driving a 4x4 does take a different approach to driving a shoebox/ family car.

i think the licence should incorporate a little offroad use, and onroad stuff, and with it should get a few people off our backs due to 4x4 drivers that are shit (ie shopping trolley drivers) and really would give us a solid argument against scrubby, and if an offroad part was included, would also be ammo against restrictions on access.

but then again, i think if this was to take effect, there should be stricter licence tests for all, with some "defensive driving" manouvers included, classes of licences,

shoebox class = lasers and the such (not hot turbo hatches

then mid class = up to and including family cars, and performance models

a large vehicle license (vans trucks 4x4) should be an additional test on the mid class licence test...

and all licence tests need things like skidpan tests, at least one 100km/h stretch, a braking section, and theory on car dynamics (ie what oversteer/ understeer is, and what causes it)

and no such thing as an AUTO test.

if you can't steer and shift, you shouldn't be driving

Post by **Aus4wd** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:13 pm

I agree on the idea for an offroad only licence for the fact it can educate
people how to look after the bush and maybe even salavge some of the tracks we have left by having responsable people out there using it rather than cowboys doing circlework and leaving their rubbish behind.

It can also educate people of winching and recovering techniques because some vehciles that I have come across in the bush with people who have NO IDEA are quite scary and dangerous.

Post by **glen1n** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:35 pm

i think no, but there are a small group of mallers who should. I saw a "new Australian" try to reverse her RAV4 and she took about 5minutes to reverse out of her car space cause she didnt have any idea of where the back of her car was. :bad-words:

Post by **glen1n** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:37 pm

BTW was the test they did on Today Tonight an off road one or on road?

Post by **bogged** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:46 pm

glen1n wrote:BTW was the test they did on Today Tonight an off road one or on road?

see 4 yourself

http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/gibbon/aab.wmv

Post by **bogged** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 12:53 pm

So, I have my Heavy Combo license have had for years, had my Hazard materials permit for 8 yrs, drove RFS Firetrucks for 8 yrs, do I need another fuckin license to drive a GQ on the road?

So what people think the law should be that you can only drive what you are tested in for your license? Works for me..

Then do we need a license to drive a HiAce van? Cause they are different to the Ford KA that you get your license in? And a Falcodore wagon, as they are also different....

and then another license to tow ANY trailer?

How about a license to be a fuckin pedistrian? Jaywalk you lose it, and you cant leave the house..

its all shit but it will happen, cause the 4wd association is doing fuck all.

Post by **Aus4wd** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:37 pm

bogged wrote:
glen1n wrote:BTW was the test they did on Today Tonight an off road one or on road?

see 4 yourself

http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/gibbon/aab.wmv

Thanks for that, it just confirmed to me that anyone could stuff up under those conditions they were tested in, the problem was the guy next to them in the car, anyone could be nervous, try the same test in a falcon with then same people and see what results you get???

Post by **-Scott-** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:40 pm

I voted YES, for ON ROAD, because it is all too clear that there are TOO MANY clueless morons out there - on bitumen and on our tracks.

If the test is OFF ROAD ONLY people won't do it because "I'm not going off road" and then go off road anyway.

Make the test for anybody who wants to drive a 4x4, and throw in the basics of off road, so they don't have an excuse for being totally clueless.

bogged

You are a prime example for the need for intelligence in the system - you have licenses which require a level of skill and awareness above that required for a 4x4, so you (and others with similar licenses and experience) should get an automatic rubber stamp.

How about a 2 part system:
- there's the on-road component for driving a heavy vehicle - if you already have a heavy vehicle license, you tick the box.
- then there's the off-road component, which could be a Driver Awareness course from a recognised program, possibly controlled by 4WD associations?

OK, so I'm dreaming; but the situation won't improve by itself, and the media will keep hammering away until the politicians create some cumbersome and worthless system. 4WDers as a community should be pro-active, see where this process is heading, and try to steer in a direction which does the least damage to us. Or one morning we'll wake up to find the government towing our 4bys away.

Scott

Post by **Guy** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:06 pm

How many single vehicle families out there would that restrict from owning and or driving 4x4's..

I own two, which I am quite comfortable and enjoy driving, my wife can drive the 4 year old GU patrol but I am unsure how she would fare in the 24 year old hilux. That said my wife is quite a competant driver.

Stricter licencing is needed .. ask any driving instructor, people taking 20 or 30 lessons and 5 or more driving tests before obtaining their licence. Then once you get it at 18 ... apart from paying a renewal fee for the next 60 years you dont have to do anything to ensure you keep it (apart form speeding etc) every 5 or 7 years retest helping people to brush up on current road rules, defensive driving techniques etc .. we all get into bad habits without realising..

Post by **Wendle** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:21 pm

bogged wrote:So, I have my Heavy Combo license have had for years, had my Hazard materials permit for 8 yrs, drove RFS Firetrucks for 8 yrs, do I need another ***** license to drive a GQ on the road?

So what people think the law should be that you can only drive what you are tested in for your license? Works for me..

Then do we need a license to drive a HiAce van? Cause they are different to the Ford KA that you get your license in? And a Falcodore wagon, as they are also different....

and then another license to tow ANY trailer?

How about a license to be a ***** pedistrian? Jaywalk you lose it, and you cant leave the house..

its all shit but it will happen, cause the 4wd association is doing ***** all.

i am not trying to be rude, or offensive, or a dickhead, but would they take your heavy vehicle license off you, or make you retry the practical part of the test if they knew you had a fuct up foot?
what is the procedure there?

Post by **-Mick-** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:05 pm

A freakin monkey could get a license as it is

All you need is opposable digits and cash. How about cleaning the current system up before introducing another one :roll:

The dropkicks who cut up tracks and dump sh!t are probably as/ more capable behind the wheel than many responsible people

How does a special license change a persons attitude

Most of those types of halfwits have enough trouble spelling their names let alone considering the ramifications of their actions

Post by **DeWsE** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:23 pm

mj wrote:A freakin monkey could get a license as it is All you need is opposable digits and cash. How about cleaning the current system up before introducing another one

The dropkicks who cut up tracks and dump sh!t are probably as/ more capable behind the wheel than many responsible people How does a special license change a persons attitude Most of those types of halfwits have enough trouble spelling their names let alone considering the ramifications of their actions

Preach it MJ!

Like another license will change the way people drive, the problem starts with the current system. I member when I got my license I didn't have a clue took about a year to experiment and get used to things. How about changing the current test so that you have to acheive a pass in different feilds. high performance, offroad, on road. I tell ya if I had to do something in a powerful car when I first got my license I would not have passed coz I wouldn't have the nerves.

Post by **TuffRR** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:25 pm

I think a license to drive any four wheel drive vehicle on or off the road is a good idea.
BUT only if the license can be obtained by demonstrating that you have the ability to manouver a larger vehicle through obsticles rather than just forking over your money. Using a license as a cost dis-incentive will not work, if you've just spent $70k on your new fourby you won't care if you have to pay $50 a year!
But having specific tests would discourage a lot of people from driving 4wd's only because they couldn't be bothered.
Then the money raised from any licensing system could be put back into keeping open public land and track maintenance.
Of course in practice, it would all become a beaurocratic farce and the money would be syphoned off to pay for pollies retirement funds or something.
So in conclusion, good in theory, bad in practice.

Post by **glen1n** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 3:39 pm

that was total BS, they didnt even compare the same drivers though the same course with a "normal" passenger car. They could have the three worst drivers in Australia for all we know. if they did this comparison then the report may have had some credibility, but they didnt, what a joke.

BTW that news reader is one fine lookin lady and that guy in the passenger seat should be taken out the back and shot.

Post by **Guy** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:23 pm

What an utter crock of crap .. the instructor was pushing them beyond where they were comfortable, put that chick back in her laser .. she would have screwed up just as bad with that nitwit getting in her ear, as for the old boy ( I know he's not that old) but he is well past his peak .. and the youngen .. if it had been properly posted he would not have ended up in a one way street .. beside's he had a bullbar hopefully he would have met the chick in the laser and would have removed he from the gene pool

Post by **RUFFLUX** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:37 pm

I dont think you would be able to enforce it i kown it would be a good idea but were do you start. As some 4x4 drive NOT ALL only ever take it off road and thats to the rubbish dump A couple of examples are your wanting a motor bike you are only 18 and they say 250 cc is were you start but you can go and do a coarse and get an open licence for any cc unlimited you do the coarse and 4 or so hrs later and your an experienced GSXR1100 RR rider o yes so cleans up the mess, second you buy a boat no clue on reversing down a boat ramp do they need a licence as i guess a lot of 4x4 users are angered at waiting for the fool trying to get the boat into the water using 3 lanes and going back and forward that many times

.
So were does it leave us the first thing should be that all driver training start as a school subject for starters would make a lot of drivers more aware for starters. Sorry to harp on .

Pezza.

Post by **bad_religion_au** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:40 pm

i agree with rufflux, get driver training in schools.

i still stand that our system needs to be tightened, and the enforcement of it is another issues, i mean how many people get checked for manual cars on auto licences? but i think that licencing for different types of vehicles is a good idea. if you get your licence in an econobox, a vl turbo or a 70's landrover will be very alien to you. at least if you get tested in a GQ, you know a little about the higher roll center etc, and those skills can be applied to an 80 series/ disco whatever.

and there definately has to be practical sides to the tests, not just dollar incentives..

and to those saying that "whatabout single vehicle households" well, either all the driving members can pass the equivelent test, or if they fail the test, obviously there driving skills are not up to the task of driving that car... which is a nice way of saying that without the system, they are dangerous

Post by **taziiy** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:58 pm

this would have to be one of the dumbest idea's that they have come up with

Post by **Hoonz** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:21 pm

they should bring the licences in to get certain vehicals ...
and it should be compentency based with all the trainning ...
it'll keep the dick heads out of 4wds ... just have to make it cost effective
to get the licence ... other wise no one will buy them ...
don't mind people having a 4wd as long as they are competent of driving one

today i was in the work car and this young person driving for a company towing a 5mtr trailor with equipment on ... he cut me off and he almost lost it straight into a heavy traffic round about ... lucky the semi saw him is all i can say .... all my bros mates have 4wds ... and i know 6 of them have rolled it on the street cause they think their 4wd can go fast round corners ... and they're all wanna be cowboys ....

Post by **De-lux** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:17 pm

i can't believe this is even raised. NO WAY SHOULD A 4X4 BE DIFFERENT TO A CAR.

SIMPLE

Post by **grumpy221** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:27 pm

Ben wrote:I say yes, so long as its used for the right reasons. If it gets everyone off our backs then great.

But then I think you should need a license of a lot of things...perhaps pedestrians should need a license, as part of their testing you can challenge them to pick to walk on either...
a) the road or
b) the footpath

Then if they walk on the road they get cleaned up by a big truck, fail the test and they wont be a problem on the roads for us...those that pass realise they should stick to the footpath.

yer and 1 for BLOODY PUSH BIKES + rego

Post by **grumpy221** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:36 pm

Lol rhis is funny......I drive a 15t bus all day in and out of traffic trying to avoid all those idiots in cars (usually high class snobs)who think they can cut me off and stop just in front mean while i've had to jam on the brakes passengers go flying everywhere and the driver sticks his finger out at me ....mmmmm anyone got a steel bull bar for a bus?

Post by **mattc** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:45 pm

Like others have said. Scrap the Kellogs Cornflakes system and make everyone pass a new test where you actually have to swerve for starters.....

And at the same time get tough on pedestrians and cyclists who do the wrong thing..... come to think of it why isn't there a bicycle class of license if you want to ride on the road

Post by **Hoonz** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:51 pm

push bike licence is taking it a bit far .... :roll:

Post by **bogged** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:35 pm

Hoonz wrote:push bike licence is taking it a bit far ....

Why? Teach the pricks to wear bigger pants so you cant see their balls from the back, and not to ride in packs of 3000 taking up the whole fucking road.. if they are going to take 3 of 4 lanes, then they can pay fuckin rego and have a license.

Post by **bogged** » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:39 pm

Wendle wrote:i am not trying to be rude, or offensive, or a dickhead, but would they take your heavy vehicle license off you, or make you retry the practical part of the test if they knew you had a fuct up foot?
what is the procedure there?

Na its kewl dude,

I can still drive fine... There are semi auto and full auto trucks out there, rigid (lots of concrete agitators) and articulated, most road rangers and spicers are only clutch to get off the line anyway...

I can drive a normal Auto, drive wifes new Pathfinder ok, so tryin my car a bit lately with out the spastic pedal. Seems to be easy...

ALso what they dont know wont hurt em..

Outer Limits 4x4 Board