suspension lift questions

Post by **marin** » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:18 pm

well, have lotsa questions, and they may not be in any sort of order, but here goes

the good old topic of lifting a GQ/mav

doing 3 inch lift, but they only make 2 or 4 inch shocks. what is to stop the springs falling out at flex? thought about hose clamping them in place, but that would stuff the spring, wouldn't it? what is this i hear about limit straps? i've never seen them b4, so people must have other ways to stop this happening

http://www.pirate4x4.com/productreviews ... /fork7.jpg

what is the difference between touch dog foam cell and rockcrawler shocks? who are these rockcrawlers made by and are they any good?

Are OME nitrochargers a gas shock or a foam cell or other?

ive been told that if the rear of a shorty lands hard, that the shock can over compress and stuff itself? ive been told that to rectify this, that the bump stops can be lengthened, but also that some shocks like the ridepros and konis come with internal bumpstops, but the ridepros are gas, so i dont really want them, and the konis are expensive, are there any other options?

anyway, this is all to go with dobinson HD 3 inch coils.

thats all for now, but i'm sure there is more to ask

marin

Post by A1 » Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:48 pm

Reply to ya Spring retain question heres mine that i got the idea off Wendle

As to shocks im runnin ranchos in the rear and Jeep ome's in the front although fronts r gunna change to procomps as will the rears in time ''''''''''''''''''''

I think JK 's dobinsons shocks also run a type of bumpstop on the shock check his members thread

Post by **-Scott-** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:34 am

A Paj owner cut his front bump stops, installed Konis and did a large desert trip. One of the Konis failed on the trip, and warranty claim was rejected because of the cut bump stops - it allowed the shock absorber to become the bump stop on compression, and that's what killed it. The mob who pulled the shock apart guessed the bump stops had been cut - they weren't told before hand.

So I'd say not all Konis have internal bump stops.

Scott

Post by **fatassgq** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:15 am

I could be wrong but I think you will find that koni dont really have a 'bumpstop' but a kind of hydraulic internal shock stop that only increases the rate of the shock in the last part of the compression stroke.
Even if some shocks do have what they call an internal bump stop
I certainly would not rely on my shocks to be a bump stop for a heavy truck like a patrol. Not for any truck really.

You can get extended bump stops and these are desined for the weight.

A shock is a dampner not a bump stop. JMO

Post by **bazzle** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 1:33 pm

Who said there is no such thing as a 3" shock.

A shock can be chosen to suit a multitude of lifts.
The deciding factors are, how much compression, how much droop, bump stop length, spring free length.

Bump stops can be lengthened to suit compression, shock towers can be spaced up.

There is an OME to suit 3" lift as well as a Koni.

Bazzle

Post by **marin** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 4:47 pm

A1MAV, are those spring retainers simply flat bits of steel with a hole in the middle for the bolt? or are they a little more sophisticated like they have grooves for the spring etc.?

also is it ever possible for the spring to squash right up that those would hit the next coil around? or do bump stops kick in way b4 that?

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:09 pm

bazzle wrote:There is an OME to suit 3" lift as well as a Koni.

they are gas nitrocharger shocks yeah? marin & myself are after foam cells.. we have had a look at tough dogs, they only come in 2/4/6 apparantly..

Post by **Daisy** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:40 pm

Do spring retiainers stuff the spring when the spring over extends such as having longer travel shocks over the spring length?

:?:

TOM

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:43 pm

do the shockers muck up if they are longer than the springs which are tied in using spring retaianers?

Post by **ORSM45** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:45 pm

robbie wrote:do the shockers muck up if they are longer than the springs which are tied in using spring retaianers?

no.

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:47 pm

another stupid question, will they muck up on up travel?

Post by **ORSM45** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 6:35 pm

they arent stupid questions.

what do you mean by 'muck up on travel'?

i doubt the spring will stuff up if they are tied in. if they can bear the weight of the car they could carry the weight of the axle.

Post by **bagsy** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:24 pm

Im running 3 inch dobinsons with the 4 inch toughdogs. Just needed to retain the rear springs and space the shock towers on the front. Works a treat. shane.....

Post by A1 » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:27 pm

marin wrote:A1MAV, are those spring retainers simply flat bits of steel with a hole in the middle for the bolt? or are they a little more sophisticated like they have grooves for the spring etc.?

also is it ever possible for the spring to squash right up that those would hit the next coil around? or do bump stops kick in way b4 that?

Yep bout sums em up 6mm lower plate with 12mm upper on its edge and a 12mm bolt through the guts the lower bolt is welded in from underneath ...............upper retain plates have a removable bolt similiar design .................................from memory on compression yes the next wind duz hit it but not severley

No bumpstops on rear no more although some custom hydrualic 1's may find a spot 1 day more so 1 year with the way the build is goin :roll:

Dan

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:45 pm

bagsy wrote:Im running 3 inch dobinsons with the 4 inch toughdogs. Just needed to retain the rear springs and space the shock towers on the front. Works a treat. shane.....

got pictures of how you retain the rears in and space the front towers? are these mods all engineerable?

got pics of flex :?:

Post by **bogged** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:49 pm

robbie wrote:
bazzle wrote:There is an OME to suit 3" lift as well as a Koni.

they are gas nitrocharger shocks yeah? marin & myself are after foam cells.. we have had a look at tough dogs, they only come in 2/4/6 apparantly..

Why foam cells?

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:52 pm

bogged wrote:
robbie wrote:
bazzle wrote:There is an OME to suit 3" lift as well as a Koni.

they are gas nitrocharger shocks yeah? marin & myself are after foam cells.. we have had a look at tough dogs, they only come in 2/4/6 apparantly..

Why foam cells?

why not?

Post by **bagsy** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:03 pm

robbie wrote:
bagsy wrote:Im running 3 inch dobinsons with the 4 inch toughdogs. Just needed to retain the rear springs and space the shock towers on the front. Works a treat. shane.....

got pictures of how you retain the rears in and space the front towers? are these mods all engineerable?

g

ot pics of flex

Hose clamps on the rear and just small diameter tube to space the front towers up . Not sure about engineering. Front should be good , might have to do more than hose clamps to satisfy an engineer

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:04 pm

how about the pics? :cool:

Post by **bogged** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:07 pm

robbie wrote:why not?

Cause you can go to any ARB store get OMEs in 3inch lift, and if they die anywhere, theres heaps of ARB Suppliers to replace under warranty...

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:07 pm

thats not answering the Q, why gas over foam/oil?

Post by **bagsy** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:08 pm

Try this.

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:09 pm

bagsy, nice flex.. you have a similar setup to what I want to run.. 3" dobinsons & tough dog foamies..

Post by **bogged** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:10 pm

robbie wrote:thats not answering the Q, why gas over foam/oil?

You were the one saying you wanted Foam cells...

Im asking why?

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:12 pm

well, I have heard foam shocks last longer than gas.. and foam also give a firmer ride.. I dont know if this is true or not, but a lot of people have said go foam over gas.

Post by **bagsy** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:20 pm

robbie wrote:bagsy, nice flex.. you have a similar setup to what I want to run.. 3" dobinsons & tough dog foamies..

Yeah works good. A little rubbing on the rear gaurds ,thats all.....

Post by **robbie** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:27 pm

have you got any body lift or chopped the rear guards? what size tyres? :oops:

Post by **bagsy** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:33 pm

robbie wrote:have you got any body lift or chopped the rear guards? what size tyres?

yeah ,2 inch body lift. no gaurd cut ( yet ) , and aftermarket flares with no mud flaps. 35 x 10.5 centerpedes.,

Post by **marin** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:48 pm

bagsy wrote:Im running 3 inch dobinsons with the 4 inch toughdogs. Just needed to retain the rear springs and space the shock towers on the front. Works a treat. shane.....

if you retain the rear springs, i'm presuming that it will simply lift the wheel when it gets to the length of the spring, without over stretching the spring?

what is the need to space the front shock tower? why wont it do the same as the rear?

Post by **marin** » Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:52 pm

bogged wrote:
robbie wrote:thats not answering the Q, why gas over foam/oil?

You were the one saying you wanted Foam cells...

Im asking why?

Been told that gas will fade heaps earlier than foam cell when on corrugations and the like, when they are being worked hard and heating up, as well as what robbie said

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