Commodore V8s

Post by **sw1** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:26 pm

corse its gonna cost 10k if you buy every item thats marks have on there shelf

:roll:

Post by **Bartso** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:34 pm

I went through a place called Barsby Spares
http://www.barsbyspares.com.au/index.htm this place has heaps of V8's and wreaks as i told you i picked mine up for 3300 with ecu, loom, power steer and a/c

Post by **Canetoad** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:51 pm

Ok SW1 where are you going to save big dollars by not not purchasing everything through Marks, the bits from Marks are only 30% of the total cost and like I said you could probably save a couple of hundred there but I don't believe the hasle is worth it. This truck will be the 4th vehicle we have done a conversion to and they always cost more than you budget and the more complete and tested the kit the easier the conversion and less time spent stuffing about. As for the cost of the engine 50% of the total cost you get what you pay for.

Post by **chimpboy** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:00 pm

Bartso wrote:I went through a place called Barsby Spares
http://www.barsbyspares.com.au/index.htm this place has heaps of V8's and wreaks as i told you i picked mine up for 3300 with ecu, loom, power steer and a/c

Ta... this is a good link by the way, here's a snippet:

V6-V8 EFI ENGINE CONVERSION - COMPONENTS, FOR OTHER THAN ORIGINAL VEHICLES - LIKE:

All non EFI Holdens; Toyota Hi-Lux, Cruiser, Surf; Nissan Patrol, Datsun 240, 260; Ford Courier; and many, many, more.

All V6-V8 EFI Engines supplied include the following parts:

An Engine; Air Box and Induction tubing; Exhaust Headers to and including Catalytic Converter, plus Short Piece of Pipe and Flange; Oxygen Sensor; Water Pump; Power Steer Pump or an Idler Pulley; Power Steer Hi Pressure Hose if required; an Alternator; Harmonic Balancer; Water Pump; Drive Belt; Belt Tensioner; Starter Motor; Flex Plate or Fly Wheel; Engine Mounts; Fuel Pump; Fuel Lines if required; Air Compressor and Hoses if required; Map Sensor and Map Sensor bracket or Air Flow Meter; Charcoal Canister and Charcoal Canister bracket; Engine Management Computer; Engine Wiring Harness Computer to Engine; Coil and Coil Pack; Plug Leads; Engine Bay Main Fuse Block and Fuse Block cover if required; Battery Harness and Leads; Accelerator cable and Accelerator cable bracket; all Nuts and Bolts associated with the above.

All Engines are Oiled down for Storage after assessing, so that the Bores and Valves do not rust during storage. All Engine Oil is drained before dispatch and 5 Litres of Penrite Oil is supplied.

THE ABOVE ENGINES CAN BE RUN ON THE FLOOR WITH THE ADDITION OF A BATTERY AND FUEL AS WELL AS SOME MODIFICATIONS TO THE WIRING HARNESS.

ALL ENGINES ARE CHECKED WITH OUR GMH TECH ONE ENGINE DIAGNOSTIC COMPUTER FOR FAULTS, WITH ANY KNOWN FAULTS RECTIFIED BEFORE DISPATCH.

Cheers,

Jason

Post by **J Top** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:01 pm

I have done 2 350 chev into Patrol's with Marks adaptors and in both of
them the carrier for the thrust bearing was off line causing thrust bearing drag and clutch slip.It does'nt help that the bearing carrier and the cross in the adaptor have a rough finish giving a lumpy slid.
I'm about to start my 3rd conversion,the bell housing will be alined before I start and the cross and bearing carrier polished smooth.
J Top
ps when contacted about this Marks said "we have sold 100s of these and you are the only one to have this problem" yeah right.

Post by **ORSM45** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:57 pm

HSV Rangie wrote:HSV 5lt new crate engine $4750.00
hsv 5.7 Lt (stroked 308) new crate $6750.00

http://www.cmr.uq.edu.au/~rotor/the_she ... is_rangie/

Michael.

arent they 304s?

and for the record 355cu inch is 5.8L :finger:

5.7L holdens are only 348cu inch.

buy a wreck. and dont sell/get rid of anything until you have completed and tested the conversion.

go a 5L. dont bother spending another $2000 on 700cc's for a few more kw. with a new intake/exhaust (as you will have to modify/get new ones anyways) youd get a bit more out of it. then get a chip. and youd have enough power.

MaccA

Post by **CRUSHU** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:02 pm

355 is a 30 thou over harrop stroker, so every 355 is almost on its last rebuild!!

vr blocks onward are clearanced for stroker cranks, and vt blocks are set up for roller cam.

Post by **ORSM45** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:29 pm

i thought 5.0Ls had a 4.030" bore already?

the 355 crank is 3.48" (same as old 350s)

383s have a 4.030" bore and a 3.75" stroke (it is possible to push 5.0Ls out this far)

i remember reading a commodore mag a while ago. it had a 5.0L ute bored and stroked to 396cu inch. it set some record.

but id stay away from stroking a 5.0L if you wanna keep it cheap. (the older styles anyway) the cranks are 1000. then you have to buy new pistons. and machining. the cost of labour is a killer too.

Post by **bubs** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:55 am

If I buy a wrecked commodore, what model is going to have a T700 auto init? Then I can sell the 5L to someone else

Post by **sw1** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 10:02 am

10k for an enigne conversion....... it would wanna be very, very good for that sort of cash :roll:

either that or your paying someone to do all the work for you :roll:

Post by **AussieCJ7** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:30 am

CRUSHU wrote:any vn to vs series 2 engine is roughly the same. late series 3 vs and vt had roller cam, and sequential injection. pick up a wrecked vn-vp for around $1500 - $2000. my mate sold his vn berlina with new reco mild engine, for $2000. another mate bought a vq statesman for $1200. buy a motor from the wreckers for about $1500 - $2000, then you still need the pump and other bits and pieces. you will be able to use the guts from the commodore tank in you patrol tank, with minor fab work. 200 kw is mild cam, minor porting,(part of any standard freshen up), quality air filter and exhaust.

by the way, i thought the ford v8 would have been cheaper.

Crushu

What do you think a good EFI 302 would be worth, if your saying the ford would have been cheaper I prefer the ford anyway just havent looked into the cost side of things

I was thinking of the EFI 302 out of a later F100 mainly for the torque and the fact they are less popular due to lower HP but it would still suit my needs

Idealy I would like the 302 with something like the T18a for the granny low what other options did the ford trucks have for engine gearbox ?

Post by **Canetoad** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 1:30 pm

10k will come close for my conversion and that is doing all the work myself. The fresh 355 EFI I am useing is costing me 7k but thats for a 300hp engine with a small duration cam to maximize torque from idle and a heavier flywheel. I am not building the engine, a race shop is doing that. But other than building the engine I am doing all the work myself. Do you think you can do a EFI V8 into a Nissan GQ for less than 9k all up please enlighten me :lol:

Post by **Bartso** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:00 pm

Ok i will try to remember all parts and prices

Engine SV89 with power steer and a/c - $3300
Adapter housing - $925
Radiator brand new - $320
Engine mount adaptors - $100
Interface wiring - $385
Speed Sensor - $330
Tacho interface (not a must if you use a manual trans) - $135
New exhaust system - $250
Hoses and little peices total - $200
new fly wheel - $300
Other peices - $1000

TOTAL = $7245

I did it all myself this is a rough guide although im pretty sure mine was a little cheaper when i went through barsby spares ( the link i gave earlier ) i bought the engine and adapter kit through him the adapter kit comes with every thing you need (wiring, housing etc) he even gave me fuel pump fuel lines exhaust manifolds air filter box a whole heap of crap it was well worth it give barsby spares a call and get a quote he is the cheapest i found

Post by **chimpboy** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 6:19 pm

Bartso wrote:Speed Sensor - $330

What's this for?

Jason

Post by **J Top** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 7:14 pm

I think this is to tell the engine whats happening.
Most engines are out of automatic cars and the auto talks to the ECM.
You have to "tell lies" to the ECM so that it wont go into "limp home"
J Top

Post by **Bartso** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:10 pm

chimpboy wrote:
Bartso wrote:Speed Sensor - $330

What's this for?

Jason

the speed sensor goes back to the computer to make the engine function properly i'm not sure if its for the auto only though the commodore didn't start having a electronic trans till the VR model also my engine was from a manual

Post by **chimpboy** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:26 pm

Bartso wrote:
chimpboy wrote:
Bartso wrote:Speed Sensor - $330

What's this for?

Jason

the speed sensor goes back to the computer to make the engine function properly i'm not sure if its for the auto only though the commodore didn't start having a electronic trans till the VR model also my engine was from a manual

Interesting. I'd suspect you could get the ECU reprogrammed to live without the speed sensor... might cost just as much though.

Jason

Post by **ORSM45** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:09 pm

mine wasnt efi, but Gas Research kit costs more than a EFI engine alone.

gas research kit = 1600 (rrp ~2000)

went 3rds and bought a 60 series with 350 chev. with my bro and his mate = 800

i got the adaptors and the 350 from that.

plus all the little crap.

i did it all myself for about $3000. (not included is the price of the rebuild or the 5 spd, but neither of these were absolute must haves to complete the conversion. i just wanted to do it all at once.)

Post by **CRUSHU** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:36 pm

AussieCJ7 wrote:Crushu

What do you think a good EFI 302 would be worth, if your saying the ford would have been cheaper I prefer the ford anyway just havent looked into the cost side of things

I was thinking of the EFI 302 out of a later F100 mainly for the torque and the fact they are less popular due to lower HP but it would still suit my needs

Idealy I would like the 302 with something like the T18a for the granny low what other options did the ford trucks have for engine gearbox ?

i wouldnt go the us motors, the efi is junk, the manifold is junk, and very exxy. the aussie stuff is cheaper, although an f truck importer may be cheaper on the engine and computer alone. ef or el xr8 wrecks are around 3000 - 4000. that is complete car, sell the interior, diff, etc, and you have a cheap motor. there was a efi engine and everything on ebay a while ago, and he couldnt even get 1500 bucks. most efi f trucks and broncos get carbies put back on them, for more performance, and saving money.

btw, i think all holden 308,304,348 and ford 302,351,400 and chev 350 are 4.000 inch bore standard. 351 clevo is 358 with 30thou, holden is 355 with 30thou, just that most builders take them upto 30 as a standard practice. personally, i'd rather standard bore in a chev, holden or ford smallblock.

Post by **ORSM45** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:53 pm

yeah your right.

Engine Bore Stroke Cubic Ins HP CCs Bore mm Stroke mm
253 3.625 3.062 253 185 4145 92.08 77.77
304 4.000 3.026 304 240-261 4987 101.60 76.86
308 4.000 3.062 308 240 5046 101.60 77.77

how come 253s are called 4.2Ls? clearly they are closer to a 4.1L

Post by **Screwy** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:23 pm

Someone said that the motor has to be newer than the vehicle.

I have dug into this as im trying to get my Red motor 308 passed for engineers in the MQ.

This is not the case in NSW.

It does not matter whether its a 1930 motor or a 2004 motor, as long as it has THE SAME or IMPROVED polution reading then the original motor in the vehicle you are fine.

So.... With the GQ, You can put a Blue or Black motor V8 in with polution and make sure its tuned properly and as long as it passes the polution you are fine. Age of motor does not matter.

But as said, a carbi chev will not pass the polution laws, but it can be made to with the right heads on it etc. so age of motor is irrelivent.

My red motor wont pass engineers in the MQ ( 1982 ) and the motor is from a late 70's holden.
The reason it wont pass is because the polution reading is less than the legal requirement and for no other reason.

So, You can get any aged motor just has to be a polution motor, OR on straight gas

Like me

Post by **CRUSHU** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:22 pm

383FJ45 wrote:yeah your right.
how come 253s are called 4.2Ls? clearly they are closer to a 4.1L

purely political, has to be bigger than the Ford 6. might not make anymore power, but sounds bigger.

oh, and screwy is right, it doesnt matter how old the motor is, just what spec it is, eg hg 308, 1970, with vn heads and efi, and standard chip, will be ok untill 1995, when the vs motor was mildly updated. after that, put a vs chip in, and you are ok till 1998. it is still a 1970 motor, but it is 1995 spec.

Post by **SLOGQ** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:19 am

Be very carefull about buying a engine from a wrecker as holden V8 prices have risen big time in the last 6 months and you can be ripped off! Holden V8's have a big problem with gunk in the engine from infreqent oil changes( mostly boy racers with no money) Always check under the rocker covers for carbon build up but also check in the SUMP as these motors have a very small oil pickup that can clog very easy and cause BIG TIME DAMAGE!!!!! The mind boggles!!!

Post by **ORSM45** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:30 pm

Canetoad wrote:10k will come close for my conversion and that is doing all the work myself. The fresh 355 EFI I am useing is costing me 7k but thats for a 300hp engine with a small duration cam to maximize torque from idle and a heavier flywheel. I am not building the engine, a race shop is doing that. But other than building the engine I am doing all the work myself. Do you think you can do a EFI V8 into a Nissan GQ for less than 9k all up please enlighten me

300hp doesnt sound enough some how. (225kw)

wouldnt it be cheaper to just get a 5.7L from a SS? (VT? 220kw)

as they are 300kw motors detuned.
play around with the computer.

Post by **Screwy** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 5:07 pm

383FJ45 wrote:
Canetoad wrote:10k will come close for my conversion and that is doing all the work myself. The fresh 355 EFI I am useing is costing me 7k but thats for a 300hp engine with a small duration cam to maximize torque from idle and a heavier flywheel. I am not building the engine, a race shop is doing that. But other than building the engine I am doing all the work myself. Do you think you can do a EFI V8 into a Nissan GQ for less than 9k all up please enlighten me

300hp doesnt sound enough some how. (225kw)

wouldnt it be cheaper to just get a 5.7L from a SS? (VT? 220kw)

as they are 300kw motors detuned.
play around with the computer.

How much money u got?

Post by **V8Patrol** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:27 pm

Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:How much money u got?

Like everything to do with vehicles......

How fast can YOU afford ?

How low a low can You afford ?

How much bling will make YOU king?

The higher ya throw the dollars the higher the rig will go !

Its only money and ya cant take it with ya !

Post by **ORSM45** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 7:53 pm

V8Patrol wrote:
Screwy_ScrewBall wrote:How much money u got?

Like everything to do with vehicles......

How fast can YOU afford ?

How low a low can You afford ?

How much bling will make YOU king?

The higher ya throw the dollars the higher the rig will go !

Its only money and ya cant take it with ya !

screwy, i wasnt saying that i have lots of money and im the best, i was saying for $7k he should be getting more than 300hp (225kw) thats basically a stock newer V8.

Post by **Screwy** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:45 pm

nah all i was saying was that injected 5 litres are pretty dear, but ur right if its 7 K then you should be able to get 800 Horse power :shock:

I pay under $500 for a decent running 308 red motor and under $300 in parts to do a basic rebiuld and theres a V8.
Then again they onlw put out 220 horsies standard.....

screwy

Post by **CRUSHU** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:24 pm

383FJ45 wrote:wouldnt it be cheaper to just get a 5.7L from a SS? (VT? 220kw)

as they are 300kw motors detuned.
play around with the computer.

that would be the ls1 gen 3 you are talking about. about $6500 crate motor, or the same for a motor and loom from the wreckers. they are 285kw, detuned, the 300kw has heads and cam mods. alot dearer than a holden v8. and less reliable.

Post by **Nev62** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 11:56 pm

chimpboy wrote:"Speed sensor" I assume means tacho? There's a guy in Brisbane who put new electronics in my Jag tacho for less than that; you retain the faceplate, needle etc but replace the bit that actually drives the needle and match it to whatever type of engine you've got. I can't remember how much it was but it was definitely sub $200.

This is from Marks Adapters web site:

For the Commodore ECM/PCM to function properly it must acquire information from external sensors. One vital input is obtained from the original Vehicle Speed Sender (VSS).

The VSS provides an indication of road speed to the ECM/PCM. The sender is either a electronic Hall switch or an inductive type, which sends pulses directly or via the dashboard circuit to the ECM/PCM.

If the ECM/PCM receives no pulses from the VSS input, a fault, Code 24 will be set in the ECM/PCM. This will result in increased fuel consumption, poor idle quality or stalling can be experienced. Vehicles fitted with TH700 automatic transmissions will have no torque converter clutch lockup, and vehicles fitted with 4L60E transmissions will not change gear.

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