Rear diffs in TD5 defenders

[Gwagensteve]

Pardon my ignorance if this is stoopid question, but since when have TD5 110's had discovery type rear diffs? When did LR stop putting Sailsbury's in them? I was following a brand new TD5 "Extreme" today and was moritfied to see a non Sailsbury.

Cheers, Steve.

[landy_man]

been like that for a while now... I believe it was the MY02 EDIT- yes 02 not 03, 03 was Disco EDIT OFF...with electric front windows and ,in my opinion, an awful console to house the switches , central locking and one key fits all locks, ... what an absolute shame ... the only thing they had going for them was the rear diff... which was let down anyway by the half shafts being weak....
not sure if it is a 2 or 4 side gear centre though

[daddylonglegs]

I was both horrified and disgusted about 18 months ago when I followed a TD5 and observed the same thing. I really haven't been my old self since.
Apparently, not satisfied with merely dropping the Salisbury, the Rover engineers in their infinite wisdom decided to degrade the Rover diffs even more by shortening the pinion shaft, pushing the bearings closer together, and making all the spider gears out of mild cheese.

There is a new, replacement heavy duty diff on the horizon, but the Australian market as always won't get it until all supply stocks of existing rear diff housings have been used up. the crap diff centre will continue to be used in the front on Defenders and all round on Discoveries.
Don't you just love em ??

Bill.

[Maxtd5def]

The 2002 MY had this upgrade. Its not the conventional Rover diff, its the P38 diff flipped over.

Strength wise reputedly midway betwwen as rover & a Salisbury, but hey, not as bulky as the salisbury - much better for rockhopping.

Other spec changes included a one piece rear door skin, central locking, & some other stuff I can't remember.

Regards
Max P

[landy_man]

I was both horrified and disgusted about 18 months ago when I followed a TD5 and observed the same thing. I really haven't been my old self since.
Apparently, not satisfied with merely dropping the Salisbury, the Rover engineers in their infinite wisdom decided to degrade the Rover diffs even more by shortening the pinion shaft, pushing the bearings closer together, and making all the spider gears out of mild cheese.

There is a new, replacement heavy duty diff on the horizon, but the Australian market as always won't get it until all supply stocks of existing rear diff housings have been used up. the crap diff centre will continue to be used in the front on Defenders and all round on Discoveries.
Don't you just love em ??

Bill.

thank god for " the aftermarket"

[Gwagensteve]

Thanks for the replies, early 2003 you say... my powers of observation are slipping

Seems like a mightly shame... I'm sure a sailsbury can be high clearanced - there are plenty of high clearance 60's out there.

[ISUZUROVER]

The 2002 MY had this upgrade. Its not the conventional Rover diff, its the P38 diff flipped over.

Strength wise reputedly midway betwwen as rover & a Salisbury, Regards
Max P

I had heard the P38 diff story too?

So what exactly is the P38 diff???, and how can they "flip it over" it would run backwards.

[DaveS3]

Could they use the same casing, but with a new drain hole an fit the Diff centre the right way up???

Are the pumpkin bits in the casing symetrical??

That would make it run the right way

Dave

[daddylonglegs]

Next time you see a turd lying on the ground, flip it over. Guess what ?

Bill.

[rick130]

Next time you see a turd lying on the ground, flip it over. Guess what ?

nice one Bill.

Apparently it's the same diff as used in the Pommy army Landy's. I've heard the Poms call it a 'Wolf' diff. I think thats their defence force project version of 'Perentie'.

According to some of the blokes on the LRE forum, they've (Ford) taken a lot of metal out of the rear of the chassis rails at around the same time as the diff change.

If you want to tow now, you have to buy a 'strengthening kit' and gusset up what should have been there in the first place before you can fit a tow bar !! Imagine doing a recovery on one without the reinforcing!

Rick.

[Slunnie]

Next time you see a turd lying on the ground, flip it over. Guess what ?

Bill.

Ah, why would I be doing that Bill?

[Maxtd5def]

If you want to tow now, you have to buy a 'strengthening kit' and gusset up what should have been there in the first place before you can fit a tow bar !! Imagine doing a recovery on one without the reinforcing!

Rick.

Tell me more!

ARB tow bar needs no such kit. Don't remember this kit being a pre-requisite to a factory tow bar.

Any more details on this one?

Regards
Max P

[daddylonglegs]

So is this the scenario Rick ? You are a British soldier who has bogged his LandRover in deep sand in Iraqu. While you are being shot at you get on the radio to have a strengthening kit airdropped to you, spend the next 4 hours fitting it just so your mate in the vehicle behind can snatch you out backwards. Or does he need a strengthening kit to beef up his CV's before he can do any towing in reverse?
Seriously though, a soldier has enough on his plate just trying to stay alive, without having to worry about whether his shitbox Defender will spit out its diffs, axles or gearbox in the middle of a skirmish.

Bill.

[wilsby]

P38's have left side drop diffs, hence the flip for use in Defenders.

The P38 is not known for breaking diffs, so I'm not sure it's that bad. But my Defender has a Sals, and I'm happy with that. What is the service record of Wolf's rears?

[daddylonglegs]

I think the reason that P38's are not known for breaking diffs is that unlike the RangeRover Classic very few P38's get used for anything like serious offroad work. A friend of mine who works at Jack Mcnamara Differentials reckons the P38 diff is a grenade with the pin pulled halfway out.

Bill.

[rick130]

re the strengthening kit, thats what was reported some time back on the LRE board.
Even part # were posted for the kit.

Maybe it's already fitted for Oz ?
or maybe it was a typical internet rumour ?

I'll do some digging.

Rick.

[rick130]

This isn't from the posts I was looking for, but it gives you the general idea

It's all written in the owner's manual, don't bolt any towing jaw/pintle/ball... unless you fit also the reinforcing plate kit. Part n. is KNK 100090K, costs theorically 30 euro with all the bolts you need, inclusive of the 4 12mm bolts for Nato hooks. I say theorically because if you ask your dealer to look up in his books he'll find that the kit is fitted as a service action under warranty by LR.

Yes, as I said above you need a proper job on the crossmember for serious use. Just using the KNK reinforcing kit and then doing a mega snatch just means the bit that goes through the windscreen of the guy at the other end weighs twice as much ... the crossmember on 99 onwards Defenders is rubbish and needs serious reinforcement. I know someone that bent the crossmember on his 2001 110 crewcab recently pulling a Toyota out, and he was being fairly careful, but because the NATO bolts on to the top bolt holes the reinforcing kit isn't so effective and the crossmember twists out at the top.

Rick

[Maxtd5def]

Just spoke to our spy on the parts counter at a dealer - Sydney LROC members will know who I mean.

And the story is that that kit does exist, but it doesn't affect Aust spec cars. Coz the Oz towbars spread the load into the chassis. There is a service bulletin about it.

It was an issue with UK spec cars. Their tow bar & pintle hook just used 4 bolts straight into the back of the chassis. And even then, it wasn't a consumer item, it was the British Army who complained, pulling tanks out of bogs, that sort of stuff.

So yes, the "load spreading kit" does exist!

Regards
Max P

[ISUZUROVER]

Interesting, so what about the defender diff??? Someone must have the RAVE CD or whatever it is called, is there an exploded diagram or specs???

[landy_man]

neither my Rave nor my EPC has a listing for those...
It must be in the newer Microcat..