WillowGlen

[Tazz]

Dave, why the edit???

Cork crawling sounds a bit of alright to me.

Now are there any bourbons that come with a cork top???

Lets get this comp up & running!

[Webbie]

I think CORK CRAWLING is held in conjunction with the famous(WINERY WALKABOUT)Albury-Rutherglen region, great idea will bring all those rich yuppies thru the gates (charge charge charge em heaps)as theyr the ones that give us a bad name paybacks a bitch and create some extra revenue for better comps and less insurance costs

[MissDrew]

Thats one for each of you

[MADSHORT]

OKZOOK you have hit the nail right on the head this is about us the drivers not the event organizers (im scared about typos so piss off Tazz)
I would like all of you Guys to go over to the CCDA site and read my posts on Willowglen
Please remember that these are only my opinions and I hope that they dont reflect on my club and freinds
I am one that wanted to see one set of rules for all of us and all events this way we could develope our trucks to suit every event and not have to worry about 3 sets of tyres , 2 sets of suspension and body lifts
If the people or persons that rung Chezzy have a prob and cant make it down south fell free to see myself

Yours truly
Gordon

[MADSHORT]

Sam I was at PUT UP I for one thought it was a great event but in saying that I would also like to see the Insurance papers that cover drivers,navigators and spectators against an accident involved with a unregistered vehicle
Please dont call me a wowser as this is a very real part of life nowadays


Yours truly
Gordon

[Tazz]

Gday Gordon, im tippin you know me well enough to know i was just shit stirring Guts, im tipping he knows that too.

Dont know about PUOSU, but can say that ive seen the insurance proposal and policy from broker for XRCC.

[OVERKILL ENG]

Sam I was at PUT UP I for one thought it was a great event but in saying that I would also like to see the Insurance papers that cover drivers,navigators and spectators against an accident involved with a unregistered vehicle
Please dont call me a wowser as this is a very real part of life nowadays


Yours truly
Gordon

Yes they did have insurance for the unregistered vehicles as I discussed this with the park owner.

Gordon you are entitled to your oppinion and I don't mean any disrspect by not agrreing on some points.
If Rover park can get insurance for unreg vehicles then how come the CCDA hasn't yet.
As the driver of an unreg vehicle to find out that you are basically be driven out of the comps by rules and insurance issues shiats me. It is these vehicles that bring on innovation and bring in the crowds.
I just think that if they are going to seperate the comps in to catagories then they all need to not just put one on the shelf cause it seems to hard.
SAM

[Tazz]

Its not just unregistered vehicle either, people who have built there cars to run 40" tyres (like mine) or 44's or whatever arent gonna wanta run little tyres, when they have put money & time / research into making there cars work with these tyres.

Not attacking you Gordon, more frustrated with the way things seem to be going in NSW, despite the opposite happening in QLD and from what i here VIC also with the rock comp in planning down there.

[Dozoor]

willoglen has had the trophy class rules in there sights since early in the year,

The reallity is it is the clubs perogative to run a comp with whatever rules the like , They must have there reasons ,

Ljxtreem and chezzy have good pionts , But there is a class for you guys In most other events, and the rules do get tweaked inway of suplementary rules for indervidual events to cover the slow pace of rock events and vehicle specs,
(PS I don't like suplementary rules for vehicle class's There is no room in the biuld of a competition vehicle for UNWRITTEN rules).

Having said that and having been quoted the same response from a member of the CCDA , I have expressed my concern's before on challenge class rules ,

What you guys are experiencing NOW Is what some people have been handed
from its conception .

LARRY.

[okz00k]

Gordon raised a few issues regarding event insurance, with more detail on the CCDA forum. To help us all understand the insurance side of things, I thought it might be helpful to post my reply here as well. Here is:

Gordon,

You have highlighted a number of misconceptions which deserve clarication. The issues which you have raised are common to all events (not just Willowglen or CCDA) and it is important that, as competitors and team managers, we all understand them. I will try to address these issues with both an event manger and the 4WD NSW&ACT secretary hat on.

1. All events must have workers compensation insurance for their volunteers as well as paid staff. This is included in the CCDA insurance under which Willowglen is operating. This covers personal injury to anyone whilst they are engaged in performing a job on behalf of the event management. This is the cover which looks after the marshals.

2. No 4wd MotorSport event run in this country has covered the competitors against their liability. This is something which the competitors must look after for themselves. CCDA is exploring this form of insurance on behalf of competitors and if we manage to get it it will be a world first for our form of motor sport.

If a driver causes injury during a transit stage, or whilst not competing, then for registered vehicles CTP will provide the necessary cover.
Similarly, property damage caused by a driver whilst in charge of their vehicle will be covered by their full comprehensive or third party property insurance. Many events make this type of insurance mandatory for their competing vehicles to help protect the property owner.

3. There is always a risk that a team manager or club official might make a decision or perform an action which results in injury or property damage. The Club's public liability and officers insurance protects the club in such an incident. No events provide for such cover. Most events which are club based insist that the participating clubs protect themselves against such risk. For any club activity to be covered, it must be announced before the event. In the case of competitions, this is covered by the club's nomination of their team to the event. No other announcement is required.

Gordon, thanks for the prompt to help get the right information across.

Det Voges
Secretary 4WD NSW & ACT and
Director & CFO, Tuff Events & Promotions Pty Limited

[RUFF]

If a driver causes injury during a transit stage, or whilst not competing, then for registered vehicles CTP will provide the necessary cover.
Similarly, property damage caused by a driver whilst in charge of their vehicle will be covered by their full comprehensive or third party property insurance. Many events make this type of insurance mandatory for their competing vehicles to help protect the property owner.

So what happens if a spectator is injured by a competitor whilest competing? Is the Competitor covered by this insurance?

[Dozoor]

If a driver causes injury during a transit stage, or whilst not competing, then for registered vehicles CTP will provide the necessary cover.
Similarly, property damage caused by a driver whilst in charge of their vehicle will be covered by their full comprehensive or third party property insurance. Many events make this type of insurance mandatory for their competing vehicles to help protect the property owner.

So what happens if a spectator is injured by a competitor whilest competing? Is the Competitor covered by this insurance?

Good queston Ruff , It sounds that apart from the Transit stages ect There would make No difference if the vehicle was regoed or not you'd still be on your pat malone .

[POS]

I am staying out of this one, my opinions usually upset and piss people off!

But in regards to PUOSU (and i am sure its the same with XRCC and Qrock at Mannar) the owners of the parks have insurance that they pay big $$$$ for each year, this covers REGO'ed cars, drivers, passenger, spectators, campers the lot. It does not cover Unregoed vehicles, at the time of the event the owners pay a hefty fee to up there insurance for the 2 or 3 days of competition. This does cover DRIVERs of unregoed vehicles, passengers and spectators for those extra days!

I think it costs something like $3000.00 for 2 days ontop of what they are already paying!

[ISUZUROVER]

I am staying out of this one, my opinions usually upset and piss people off!

But in regards to PUOSU (and i am sure its the same with XRCC and Qrock at Mannar) the owners of the parks have insurance that they pay big $$$$ for each year, this covers REGO'ed cars, drivers, passenger, spectators, campers the lot. It does not cover Unregoed vehicles, at the time of the event the owners pay a hefty fee to up there insurance for the 2 or 3 days of competition. This does cover DRIVERs of unregoed vehicles, passengers and spectators for those extra days!

I think it costs something like $3000.00 for 2 days ontop of what they are already paying!

In the case of parks like Manar that allow unregistered dirt bikes to ride on the property, they have to have permanent cover for unregistered vehicles, or at least unregistered bikes. The owner of one such park told me that his insurance was $14000 a year!

[POS]

Yes, i was going to say that Manar has full insurance for unregistered vehicles of any type!

[XTREME MMM]

My 2 bobs worth on the insurance & event talk:- The competitors in my events etc:- XWC, XRCC & the Xtreme International have the exact same cover as any of the CCDA events, this also includes unregistered vehicles in my XRCC events. You will find that the PL Insurance will (hope) pick up what the vehicles CTP Insurance does not. (Again I hope) I have taken out this Insurance (2nd.year) to cover all of my events.

As for classes in my XWC & XI Events there is in place a set of rules that encourage the competitor to build a vehicle to the best of his ability, but the vehicle has to be registered & run a set size for the tyres (maximum) 940 X 350mm, apart from this you are pretty free to do what you want except for no rear steer and no active indervidual controlled suspension. If you want a copy of rules send me an email and I will return.

As for my XRCC rules my Modtruck Class is a registered vehicle with a tyre limit. Outlaw anything goes. I will be working the 2005 rules for Modtruck to go with the Tough Truck Rules (only if I think that they are right) where as Outlaw will be what I have picked up in the last couple of years.

Safety issues in all my events have been used before any other non CAMS event even through they were a good idea. The safety in my events have been for the driver & co driver or spotter no one else. It is good to see (and about time) that the CCDA is putting in Rules to protect their members.



Regards David (MMM)

[Pal]

Gordon raised a few issues regarding event insurance, with more detail on the CCDA forum. To help us all understand the insurance side of things, I thought it might be helpful to post my reply here as well. Here is:

2.

If a driver causes injury during a transit stage, or whilst not competing, then for registered vehicles CTP will provide the necessary cover.
Similarly, property damage caused by a driver whilst in charge of their vehicle will be covered by their full comprehensive or third party property insurance. Many events make this type of insurance mandatory for their competing vehicles to help protect the property owner.

Det Voges
Secretary 4WD NSW & ACT and
Director & CFO, Tuff Events & Promotions Pty Limited

mandatory
This may be so but you cant make a competitor or anyone else for that matter, claim against his ins. co. if he does not want to. So it is of no benefit at all to a property owner or any other claimant to have third party property ins.

He may not submit his claim because the vehicle at the time of the accident may not be in a state of road worthyness as specified in his original ins policy cover.
.

[okz00k]

So what happens if a spectator is injured by a competitor whilest competing? Is the Competitor covered by this insurance?

The way I see it, if the cause can be attributed to how the competition was run or a failing in how the stage was set up, then the event's PL will cover it. Otherwise it's the competitor's liability. The competitor might be able to pass the buck, but it is likely to get complicated. I expect that in the real world, the entity who is most likely to be able to pay is the one who is most likely sued.

[TuffToy24D]

Keep in mind that the CCDA is a "Drivers' Association" aimed at representing the drivers and competitors, not an event managers association.

Join, get involved and have your say. Use the CCDA to influence the event.

CCDA is the drivers' and competitors' guiding event managers by providing them with:
- Event Management Plan - guidelines to help them get organised
- Vehicle class specifications - so we have a degree of consistency, and
- Model rules - to provide a basis.

It is still up to the event managers to provide thier own supplementary rules which define the specifics of their event.

Different events will cater for different vehicle classes. Watch out for an event coming back on early 2005 which will challenge the toughest registered 4WDs in the country, with specs beyond Challenge class.

There is also nothing stopping someone from developing unregistered vehicle classes and the CCDA is there to provide a forum for setting standards for such classes.

Think about it - where do you as drivers, competitors and volunteer staff want to see 4wdMotorSport evolve in our region? If you have not already done so, why not join CCDA and have your say. Tell the CCDA committee what you think at http://CCDA.info

Why doesn't the CCDA run its own events instead of telling Event Organisers what to do, sorry guiding Event Managers?

I would say the Nissan Trials and Woodpecker are just fine the way they are. I don't think they need guiding.

Run your own events, we need more of them however in less than 7 weeks we will see if Willowglen under the CCDA "guiding" is as successful as past 2 years.

As for Insurance Ken Brady, owner of TCIS, told me that if a volunteer mashal gets hurt, there would be no recourse for compensation . So is he lying or may be the insurance policy you have is not as good as you thought?

A NSW view point.

[Webbie]

All i can say is that their is too many IFs, BUTs,and PROBABLYs in amoungst these insurance QA.These events are put on for us buy someone else and we take its (all covered statements) from organisers.
But what if it happens.
What im getting at and will probably get FLAMED is that when you get a loan you know EXACTLY what your in for ,and its all in writing. otherwise you wouldn't trust them ,would you. and the way litigation is going id like to see insurance stating all facets of injury cover ,which is what people r talking about primarily.
You only have to watch (the man who sued god) top movie, to see what insurence companise r like to know that im just saying ,that without seeing that the events have the appropriate cover ,whos to say that if an acciedent did happen you wouldn't be reaching into your onw pocket or BANKS(loan) to cover it.
I hope that this is all pezamistic talk but ,Like my old man always said (always cover your ass)as they the other bodies will be .
unfortunatly this is the times we live in and there will always be some c@nt outhere looking for a quik $$$$$$ nomatter what the cost.
I just dont wan't to see it being our sporting body or us the participents.
My 2c worth

[china]

this is very interesting, was guna start competing?

[Britswed]

Anyone got directions to the property from Sydney,turn off ect

Cheers Mal

[Diesel]

To get there from Sydney head to Goulbrun. From Goulburn take the Tarago/Braidwood road. When you get to the cross roads in Tarago tunr left and it willl be sign posted all the way to the property.

[Britswed]

Thanks for that:) I gather the road out of Golburn is the one that passes Wakefeild Park??

Thanks Mal

[slowhilux]

Thanks for that:) I gather the road out of Golburn is the one that passes Wakefeild Park??

Thanks Mal

Yes, thats the road

[Squik]

So who else is going? We are going down Friday arvo/ night from Sydney.

[zookjedi]

i'll be there along with "hardcore" friday arvo as well.

[glen1n]

The event had its moments, best one was the first run in the bog, rolled it into a hole and nearly drown the bloody passenger, no wonder you dont have to wear ya belt for that event. But where the fark were all the outerlimit boys? ONly two i saw there was Adam (aka my45) and Brian (aka dumbdunce) i still got a hangover

btw, brian, is it possible to get any of that footage i saw you taking on the net?

[glen1n]

only 2 pics i got, took it from my phone so quality may be Grimace

[andy_noble]

There are heaps on pics on the 4x4monthly forum.