Check this out Guy's.
Can be used for Full Hydro Steer, or in a normal steering setup as an assist.
Ready to Rock.
Pete
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Hydro steer or Hydro Assist Double ended Rams
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Oil Volume displacement is equal with a double ended ram.
With a single ended ram you get variable displacement because of the surface area that the rod takes up at only one end of the cyclinder.
Therefore, if only a single ended ram was used for assist, you will find it impossible to bleed the air out of the system.
Pete
With a single ended ram you get variable displacement because of the surface area that the rod takes up at only one end of the cyclinder.
Therefore, if only a single ended ram was used for assist, you will find it impossible to bleed the air out of the system.
Pete
THAT is cool. But i already have HUGE arms from driving my cruiser before the powersteering conversion. Now its a piece of 'cake'. 
But it would look cool... what is the price on those suckers? I was thinking of using the Hydraulic steering out of a forklift. Might be cheaper?
But it would look cool... what is the price on those suckers? I was thinking of using the Hydraulic steering out of a forklift. Might be cheaper?
[color=green][b]"Common sense is not that common"[/b][/color]
onall4 wrote:Oil Volume displacement is equal with a double ended ram.
With a single ended ram you get variable displacement because of the surface area that the rod takes up at only one end of the cyclinder.
Therefore, if only a single ended ram was used for assist, you will find it impossible to bleed the air out of the system.
Pete
If you have a big enough reservoir you should be able to bleed the air out of your system.
Also you used to run a single ended ram on the rear steer of your FJ40, have you replaced it with one of these units?
Whats the cost on these units?
Is your old single ended one for sale?
hands and mums dont count!!!
BJ
When using it as a ram assist, it wont matter if your reservoir is the size of the ocean. It will still create air via un-even displacement.
In my setup, it is run independently.
The draw backs to my system are:
*It turns quicker 1 way than it does the other.
*Has more Force 1 way than the other. etc.
Single ended rams on the front it is a wheel aligners nitemare. Because every time you turn the wheel from lock to lock. The steering wheel ends up in a different position.
Pete
When using it as a ram assist, it wont matter if your reservoir is the size of the ocean. It will still create air via un-even displacement.
In my setup, it is run independently.
The draw backs to my system are:
*It turns quicker 1 way than it does the other.
*Has more Force 1 way than the other. etc.
Single ended rams on the front it is a wheel aligners nitemare. Because every time you turn the wheel from lock to lock. The steering wheel ends up in a different position.
Pete
Minion #1
onall4 wrote:BJ
When using it as a ram assist, it wont matter if your reservoir is the size of the ocean. It will still create air via un-even displacement.
In my setup, it is run independently.
The draw backs to my system are:
*It turns quicker 1 way than it does the other.
*Has more Force 1 way than the other. etc.
Single ended rams on the front it is a wheel aligners nitemare. Because every time you turn the wheel from lock to lock. The steering wheel ends up in a different position.
Pete
I'm sorry, i'm new to this, how does it create air?
You'd think if NO air flowed to it, you wouldnt get any air?
Ill have to sit down now! It is way above my head.
I am fully aware though that more force is acheivbed one side and one side is easier to steer though, due to the fluid displacement, but hey, its cheaper, depending on your price!
hands and mums dont count!!!
(This is a very vague area to work with and would soley depend how the system is built and the geometry and proximity of the reserve tank to pump and control valve. It also depends greatly on the abilty of the system to recover fluid quickly and as required)
The only way you would end up with air in you system in the aformentioned problem is if the reserve tank is unable to replentish the difference in oil demand between each end of the cylinder..
Side A has ram area + volumetric area - ram area of oil
Side B just has the volumetric area of the oil demand
1/
When the ram compresses and reduces the amount of oil in side B there would be enough to pass from one side of the ram to the other and have spare oil. The spare oil would return to the tank.
2/
On operation of the ram in the other direction the system would have to recover the oil from the reserve tank to meet the volumtric difference and supply this to the pump and be pressurised in.
The "return line" oil from the control valve may vent directly to a reserve and then additonal requirements may be drawn from the tank as required to the pump..
In most cases this is a waste of resources as the returning oil from the control valve can be fed as the "supply" to the pump which is directing oil back to the control valve and onto the other side of the ram chamber. However as i said above in point 2...there is a oil demand difference. and the oil must be able to flow freely (gravity feed normally) to the pump to reduce or remove airiation of the oil after the pump ...
So basically....stick your reserve tank on the roof of ya truck or back firewall..and all will be well...It just comes down to system design..
Just think of hydraulics as electrics and its all the same...what goes in has to come out and the potential and current must equal.
, I served my time on forklifts and bobcats skid steer loaders, years ago.
Hydraulics was an everyday thing for me for 5 years....but i could be wrong too..
The only way you would end up with air in you system in the aformentioned problem is if the reserve tank is unable to replentish the difference in oil demand between each end of the cylinder..
Side A has ram area + volumetric area - ram area of oil
Side B just has the volumetric area of the oil demand
1/
When the ram compresses and reduces the amount of oil in side B there would be enough to pass from one side of the ram to the other and have spare oil. The spare oil would return to the tank.
2/
On operation of the ram in the other direction the system would have to recover the oil from the reserve tank to meet the volumtric difference and supply this to the pump and be pressurised in.
The "return line" oil from the control valve may vent directly to a reserve and then additonal requirements may be drawn from the tank as required to the pump..
In most cases this is a waste of resources as the returning oil from the control valve can be fed as the "supply" to the pump which is directing oil back to the control valve and onto the other side of the ram chamber. However as i said above in point 2...there is a oil demand difference. and the oil must be able to flow freely (gravity feed normally) to the pump to reduce or remove airiation of the oil after the pump ...
So basically....stick your reserve tank on the roof of ya truck or back firewall..and all will be well...It just comes down to system design..
Just think of hydraulics as electrics and its all the same...what goes in has to come out and the potential and current must equal.
, I served my time on forklifts and bobcats skid steer loaders, years ago.
Hydraulics was an everyday thing for me for 5 years....but i could be wrong too..
45 series ute - 308 -gas -35's- lifted -no flex..But i got air lockers !
2006 VX v8 4.7 Landcruiser, bog stock. It's black so its cool !
2006 VX v8 4.7 Landcruiser, bog stock. It's black so its cool !
This is the bit that has me confused:
Are you talking about a full hydro setup here? In an assist only setup, I don't see how this could happen as there is still full mechanical connection between the steering column and the wheels?
How many full hydro equipped rigs would ever get wheel aligned, other than a backyard toe measurement?
onall4 wrote:Single ended rams on the front it is a wheel aligners nitemare. Because every time you turn the wheel from lock to lock. The steering wheel ends up in a different position.
Are you talking about a full hydro setup here? In an assist only setup, I don't see how this could happen as there is still full mechanical connection between the steering column and the wheels?
How many full hydro equipped rigs would ever get wheel aligned, other than a backyard toe measurement?
Wendle wrote:This is the bit that has me confused:onall4 wrote:Single ended rams on the front it is a wheel aligners nitemare. Because every time you turn the wheel from lock to lock. The steering wheel ends up in a different position.
Are you talking about a full hydro setup here? In an assist only setup, I don't see how this could happen as there is still full mechanical connection between the steering column and the wheels?
How many full hydro equipped rigs would ever get wheel aligned, other than a backyard toe measurement?
I'm only talking about a RAM assist setup, and i don't thinkit will make air!
If it makes air, can i use this to run airtools?
hands and mums dont count!!!
Punchy wrote:(This is a very vague area to work with and would soley depend how the system is built and the geometry and proximity of the reserve tank to pump and control valve. It also depends greatly on the abilty of the system to recover fluid quickly and as required)
The only way you would end up with air in you system in the aformentioned problem is if the reserve tank is unable to replentish the difference in oil demand between each end of the cylinder..
Side A has ram area + volumetric area - ram area of oil
Side B just has the volumetric area of the oil demand
1/
When the ram compresses and reduces the amount of oil in side B there would be enough to pass from one side of the ram to the other and have spare oil. The spare oil would return to the tank.
2/
On operation of the ram in the other direction the system would have to recover the oil from the reserve tank to meet the volumtric difference and supply this to the pump and be pressurised in.
The "return line" oil from the control valve may vent directly to a reserve and then additonal requirements may be drawn from the tank as required to the pump..
In most cases this is a waste of resources as the returning oil from the control valve can be fed as the "supply" to the pump which is directing oil back to the control valve and onto the other side of the ram chamber. However as i said above in point 2...there is a oil demand difference. and the oil must be able to flow freely (gravity feed normally) to the pump to reduce or remove airiation of the oil after the pump ...
So basically....stick your reserve tank on the roof of ya truck or back firewall..and all will be well...It just comes down to system design..
Just think of hydraulics as electrics and its all the same...what goes in has to come out and the potential and current must equal.
, I served my time on forklifts and bobcats skid steer loaders, years ago.
Hydraulics was an everyday thing for me for 5 years....but i could be wrong too..
WOW that will come in handy!!! 8)
Your full of great knoledge
Thanks 
Ok. Some Great info here.?
Ram Assist Only...
If you have exactly 1 litre of fluid It will fill a 1 Litre container exactly!!!
If you have exactly 1 litre of fluid & you have a 1.1 litre container There is not enough fluid to fill it up, so it has air space above the fluid!
When a Power Steer Box is modified to use ram assist there is only a certain volume of oil that can pass through the extra ports. These ports have a limited bleed back to tank available to them.
When you have a single ended ram, it requires more volume 1way than it does the other way.
Therefore it is extremely difficult to bleed the system because the mechanical linkages of the original steering keep pulling the ram to the direction steered to. which does not entirely allow enough fluid from the modifed ports which can create an air pocket.
This is my Theory. But am open to correction.
Ram $650.00ea
Heim Joints $ 25.00ea
Small Yoke $ 65.00ea
Pete
Ram Assist Only...
If you have exactly 1 litre of fluid It will fill a 1 Litre container exactly!!!
If you have exactly 1 litre of fluid & you have a 1.1 litre container There is not enough fluid to fill it up, so it has air space above the fluid!
When a Power Steer Box is modified to use ram assist there is only a certain volume of oil that can pass through the extra ports. These ports have a limited bleed back to tank available to them.
When you have a single ended ram, it requires more volume 1way than it does the other way.
Therefore it is extremely difficult to bleed the system because the mechanical linkages of the original steering keep pulling the ram to the direction steered to. which does not entirely allow enough fluid from the modifed ports which can create an air pocket.
This is my Theory. But am open to correction.
Ram $650.00ea
Heim Joints $ 25.00ea
Small Yoke $ 65.00ea
Pete
onall4 wrote:Ok. Some Great info here.?
Ram Assist Only...
If you have exactly 1 litre of fluid It will fill a 1 Litre container exactly!!!
If you have exactly 1 litre of fluid & you have a 1.1 litre container There is not enough fluid to fill it up, so it has air space above the fluid!
When a Power Steer Box is modified to use ram assist there is only a certain volume of oil that can pass through the extra ports. These ports have a limited bleed back to tank available to them.
When you have a single ended ram, it requires more volume 1way than it does the other way.
Therefore it is extremely difficult to bleed the system because the mechanical linkages of the original steering keep pulling the ram to the direction steered to. which does not entirely allow enough fluid from the modifed ports which can create an air pocket.
This is my Theory. But am open to correction.
Ram $650.00ea
Heim Joints $ 25.00ea
Small Yoke $ 65.00ea
Pete
Thanks for the prices Pete, so you are saying it is extremely difficult, but not impossible to bleed the system now, whereas before it was impossible?
Also I commented on the reservoir size before!
My personal opinion on this is, if its a daily driver, you're best with a RAM assist, and if its a offroad only, you might find it easier to eventually go to a full hydro. In my opinion, it is not too hard to bleed the system, and once you can get it running reliably it won't be hard to do. I'll have a full write up of prices, specs, costs, and when i can sit down, ill give a flow and pressure on different pumps, and hopefully some gear ratios of different local PS boxes, particularly in the Toyota range. I should have my RAM assist hammering by XRCC, and bled and running NO AIR in the system
Although at some stage, id like to go to a full double ended ram! Due to the differences in force/fluid from side to side, but id say cost will slow this down considerably!
Keep an eye out for my write-up!
hands and mums dont count!!!
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