JAMBOREE 05 36" TYRE LIMIT

[Coighty]

I heard a rumour there will be 36" tyre limit at J5. As well as
handicapping scores for modifications as small as havin a LSD.
Whats going on with our sport are people scared of big trucks
or just to lazy to make tracks to cater for everyone?

[okz00k]

This mignt answer some questions on the issue:

From: "Chris Betcher" <chris@betcher.org>
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:48 pm
Subject: RE: [4wdMotorSport] Jamboree 2004

Hi guys.

I would like to just make a couple of comments on the email below. Please understand that I make these comments in good faith and do not intend to offend or upset anyone.

I understand the sentiment being expressed by Steve (and Shane in a previous message) regarding the events being held at Jamboree 2005. However, please understand that the Suzuki 4WD Clubs vision for the 2005 Jamboree is to bring the event "back to basics" and align it with its original intentions of being an inclusive, family oriented event that will offer something (by way of activity, not just spectating) for ALL who attend.

To this end, the J5 committee took a very deliberate decision to change the nature and style of some of the events compared to what has been happening over recent years. For a comprehensive expanation of the J5 committee's approach to the 2005 Jamboree, take a look at the J5 website at http://jamboree.4wdnsw.org/ and check out the General Information link.

While the J5 committee realises that some of the Big Rig folk may not find the events at J5 to be what they are perhaps looking for, we firmly believe that J5 should be about participation for all and not just a small minority.
We see it as a community-building event moreso than a pure motorsport event, (although there will certainly be elements of motorsport present for those that wish to get involved)

Please understand that we are strong supporters of 4WD motorsport events. Many of our members have been highly instrumental in setting up the CCDA, as well as entering teams in all the other big events ... the Suzuki Club is always well represented in events such as Tuff Truck, Warn Winch Challenge, Outback Challenge, Woodpecker, Willowglen and Nissan Trials. So we are very positive about 4WD competition per se.

However, we think Jamboree is a different style of event, aimed at a different style of 4WDer. We believe we are making the right decisions about J5, and we know that there are still plenty of other events around for the big rigs. We want J5 to be an event for the vast majority of average 4WDers who can come along and still have a lot of fun in their everyday 4WDs. We've put a lot of thought into the "classless" competition events, so that everyone can compete on a level playing field without the need to invest massive amounts of money into a highly specialised truck.

We are extremely confident the event will be a great success. It has the full support of the NSW 4WD Association, and there have been many, many hours of organisation by the J5 committee going on behind the scenes which is ensuring the event will be a huge success. We have received enormously positive feedback from a large number of 4WD clubs who are very excited and enthusiastic about our vision for Jamboree 2005. While our decisions have the potential to disappoint those people who have invested a lot of time and effort into building "monster trucks" ( and I mean that nicely) for spectator-type events, we felt that since there are still plenty of other events on the 4WD competition calendar to keep those guys happy, that Jamboree should be far more inclusive of the average 4WDer.

We'd love to see everyone come along to Jamboree and enjoy it for what it is. I just thought I would drop you a line to clarify this, and although you are more than welcome to badger us about it, I feel pretty confident about saying it won't change our minds. ;-)

Hope to see you there.

Chris
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Betcher
President
Suzuki 4WD Club of NSW
www.suzuki4wd.com.au
president@suzuki4wd.com.au

Promoting responsible recreational 4WDing

[Dozoor]

This mignt answer some questions on the issue:

From: "Chris Betcher" <chris@betcher.org>
Date: Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:48 pm
Subject: RE: [4wdMotorSport] Jamboree 2004

Hi guys.

I would like to just make a couple of comments on the email below. Please understand that I make these comments in good faith and do not intend to offend or upset anyone.

I understand the sentiment being expressed by Steve (and Shane in a previous message) regarding the events being held at Jamboree 2005. However, please understand that the Suzuki 4WD Clubs vision for the 2005 Jamboree is to bring the event "back to basics" and align it with its original intentions of being an inclusive, family oriented event that will offer something (by way of activity, not just spectating) for ALL who attend.

To this end, the J5 committee took a very deliberate decision to change the nature and style of some of the events compared to what has been happening over recent years. For a comprehensive expanation of the J5 committee's approach to the 2005 Jamboree, take a look at the J5 website at http://jamboree.4wdnsw.org/ and check out the General Information link.

While the J5 committee realises that some of the Big Rig folk may not find the events at J5 to be what they are perhaps looking for, we firmly believe that J5 should be about participation for all and not just a small minority.
We see it as a community-building event moreso than a pure motorsport event, (although there will certainly be elements of motorsport present for those that wish to get involved)

Please understand that we are strong supporters of 4WD motorsport events. Many of our members have been highly instrumental in setting up the CCDA, as well as entering teams in all the other big events ... the Suzuki Club is always well represented in events such as Tuff Truck, Warn Winch Challenge, Outback Challenge, Woodpecker, Willowglen and Nissan Trials. So we are very positive about 4WD competition per se.

However, we think Jamboree is a different style of event, aimed at a different style of 4WDer. We believe we are making the right decisions about J5, and we know that there are still plenty of other events around for the big rigs. We want J5 to be an event for the vast majority of average 4WDers who can come along and still have a lot of fun in their everyday 4WDs. We've put a lot of thought into the "classless" competition events, so that everyone can compete on a level playing field without the need to invest massive amounts of money into a highly specialised truck.

We are extremely confident the event will be a great success. It has the full support of the NSW 4WD Association, and there have been many, many hours of organisation by the J5 committee going on behind the scenes which is ensuring the event will be a huge success. We have received enormously positive feedback from a large number of 4WD clubs who are very excited and enthusiastic about our vision for Jamboree 2005. While our decisions have the potential to disappoint those people who have invested a lot of time and effort into building "monster trucks" ( and I mean that nicely) for spectator-type events, we felt that since there are still plenty of other events on the 4WD competition calendar to keep those guys happy, that Jamboree should be far more inclusive of the average 4WDer.

We'd love to see everyone come along to Jamboree and enjoy it for what it is. I just thought I would drop you a line to clarify this, and although you are more than welcome to badger us about it, I feel pretty confident about saying it won't change our minds. ;-)

Hope to see you there.

Chris
------------------------------------------------------
Chris Betcher
President
Suzuki 4WD Club of NSW
www.suzuki4wd.com.au
president@suzuki4wd.com.au

Promoting responsible recreational 4WDing

So no ccda rules Okzook

[okz00k]

J5 doesn't warrant it - not really a 4wdMotorSport focused event - just a heap of fun around a 4WD theme. I'll definitely be there in the Prado to soak it all up. The OKZ00K will be staying at home for that one.

For the Core event, see you at Tuff Truck two weeks later.

Horses for courses.

DOOZOR when are we going to see the nomination for your new hybrid?

[Dozoor]

Okzook Wrote :

DOOZOR when are we going to see the nomination for your new hybrid?

Like to , But you should know how much of a web crawler i am !

If you where to make a calculated Guesstamation When do you think the nom.s will be full ?


Larry

[MD4x4]

So if you have an LSD or traction control as a standard factory item why do you get penalised? Most of the current crop of nissans come standard with this item.

MD

[thunder]

the jamboree is the best family competition ive ever been too .kids r entertained with bike races .easter bunny comes out,adults with the 4wd comps but its a big call to take out the big rigs.i like competing with these 4wds .
.just make different classes .
some clubs have mainly big trucks so that may take the whole club out of it?
It should be open to all clubs and there members under the association and the 4wds they drive.

[Squik]

Jamborees are social and club get togethers, not an event as such.

[65Mog]

We need a Nissan trials type event at Easter 35-44 inch tyres only 12 tracks over 3 days it sounds like an plan.

[Gigantor]

J5 is being hosted by the Suzuki Club in 2005 and they have taken upon them selves to make radical changes to the rules.
There limiting the tyre size to 36"
There also bringing in a handi-cap scoring system.
This means no more big trucks are invited to J5.
Lets be honest, the Jamboree is all about bringing our small 4wdriving community together for an excellent weekend to be had by ALL. Be honest as a mum and dad, your kids love the big trucks, we all love to see the big trucks except the J5 host.

The Jamboree belongs to us all, without doubt being one of the best social
weekends on the 4wdrivers calendar.
Don't let the host of J5 spoil it by inviting their own friends and further
more the Association has no right to approve such radical changes without
the rest of us, affiliated clubs and members having some prior input given
that we all support the association.
It would be extremely good to get more feedback from all who agree that
these changes to J5 are wrong.
All of you mechanical/custom 4wd workshops owners that feed from us, in
helping to modify our rigs no matter how small the modifications are, where
is your support in this matter.
There are hundred's of competitors/drivers out there running over 36" tyres,
where is your support on this. Doesn't matter if your not driving this year
or your truck is off the road. Get in here and be heard, otherwise this type
of thing will continue and soon the BIG RIGS will be a thing of the past.
CCDA has classes, we use this to cater for all. The association supports
CCDA, so there is the link, but where has it failed.
Potential Sponsors, all of you that feed off the industry in any shape or
form, where is your support.
Lets not see the jamboree, which has evolved to what it is today by the
efforts and support from all clubs, competitors, spectators etc, and by a
minority, a club only hosing it change it and possibly ruin it for all.
My view on this matter is very strong, I have been part of the competition
scene since 1996, not long ,but long enough to see all the events evolve.
I have been there, every year since 1996 with my family/kids, I have
competed, I started with a std 80 series cruiser, I modified it gradually
over the years and kept competing, I without doubt would no almost all by
sight (maybe not names, that's just me though....bad memory), but what I do
remember, every year the Jamboree has always, without failure been the best
weekend on the 4wd calendar. So I ask the question, WHY SHOULD IT BE
CHANGED.
Going to an event and watching Standard vehicles or even slightly modified
vehicles whizzing around the track all day picking up potatoes and driving
blind folded, would be as boring to watch as synchronised swimming. That's
just my view, but hay, I'm way out there, I'm hip, I'm something from the
future.
Maybe it just me, maybe I need to buy a Suzuki and calm down.
Or maybe those who care should start replying to this email and giving their
support.

Regards
Shane Barlow
( from a guy with a big rig and cares about our future in motorsport)
I also have a lot of time on my hands to write these emails........NOT.

[greenfourby]

I went to my first Jamboree in 2003 in a 'standard' vehicle and had a ball, since then I have built a comp truck and I was looking forward to running in the Jamboree. Hey even the Mrs was looking forward to driving the 100 leaving me to play in the 45.

My club (AWDC) ran the jamboree in 2003 with contributions from many other clubs and over 1000 people came through the gates over the week-end.

Considering that most people had to drive several hours to get there I would say this must say something for the format that has been developed over many jamborees.

There was then and would be of the format as left alone opportunities for anyone that wants to have a go to get involved be they big rigs or standard trucks.

Surely the jamboree is the one chance each year to people and vehicles of all levels to get together after all it is the person that is a member of the association through the club and not the truck, discriminate against the truck and you WILL exclude a lot of people.

Having said all that I will attend the event but I would like to be able to enjoy driving the 45 as there are few comps in NSW to allow me to get out and play !!

The jamboree is a big job for any club and I salute the Suzuki club for taking it on but I do not understand the drive to change what does not appear to me to be broken

Thats my 2c

[Coighty]

Well said guys. We are yet to see a list of rules on J5 site, maybe they're keeping them from us as long as possible. I think they should understand the difference between HOSTING and Holding an event. Maybe they should have organised there own seperate event for smaller trucks and left OUR jamboree alone.But we should also remember this is an event for EVERYONE, and not a competition. Just for fun no need to discriminate.

[thaoldman]

This means no more big trucks are invited to J5.

pfft…..How untrue ! Why not just put on 36" tyres and enjoy the weekend for what it is meant to be. FUN for all the family. Jamboree is not about serious competition, never has. Its about having FUN with other people who share a passion for 4wding.

Shane, I don't know what possible good can come of this very public smear campaign which seems to be primarily aimed against the Suzuki Club of NSW. If you don’t agree with the way its being organised, that’s fine, but I would hope that you are planning to run J6 to prove that you can do a better job. I believe the saying is “PUOSU”

You are entitled to your views and opinions but you shouldn’t be so vindictive by putting those down (I am referring to your replies to CCDA members emails) who simply have a difference of opinion to you. There is a place for serious big rig comps, rock crawling and I enjoy seeing these events. I would much sooner see you channel your energy into helping develop more of these type events. Look at the other states….we in NSW are miles behind.



p.s I like to remember back to when competition classes were so simple, …Open or locked diffs. …but that was when comps were decided on driver skill, not by the depth of their pockets

[Squik]

Firstly, whilst I am a member of the Suzuki Club, I'm not involved with J5....and commenting personally, not as a club member.

What about adding another class for the big guys? Just a suggestion to keep everyone happy and then *everyone* can compete.
Yes it's still a family/club/social get together and not an event on the competition circuit calendar but the big boys could then play as well.

I will try a comparo.....

Going back years ago when I used to go to Pony Club Jamborees.....some kids had shetland ponies....and some kids parents could afford to buy their kids thoroughbreds.....but we were all kids and they divided us into groups decided by how many "hands high" the horses were (as opposed to tyre diameter) and we all got to have a play. Often the kids on the larger more expensive horses were competeing at state levels.....but they still had the right to entering "fun" events as they were members of a club......
My 2 cents worth

[Gigantor]

thaoldman,
What a crock..........
Why is it you choose to think I am bagging the Suzuki club. I pointing out the fact that they have change the rules without anyone else view.
Is it a crime to ask questions and find out the truth why they bother to change the jamboree that has been working fine.
No it is not fair on anyone to have to PUOSU.
Brian from the 4wd motorsport bagged me originally, so I gave it back. Jesus christ read the emails before you make a stupid comment.
Anyways why don't you go and organise the next jamboree, I reckon I have done my share, tell me what you have done! Besides having a go at me for something I didn't start. If J5 was never going to change , there would be no argument.
Tell them to keep it how it is and has been, channel that into your little energy pouch.
why should I have to buy 36" tyres.
Anymore stupid emails like this I'll go nuts.
have your J5, enjoy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matt N]

Having attended 5 easter Jamborees I say any member of any affiliated club should have the right of attending no matter what size shoe they wear.

Chris you say:

However, please understand that the Suzuki 4WD Clubs vision for the 2005 Jamboree is to bring the event "back to basics" and align it with its original intentions of being an inclusive, family oriented event that will offer something (by way of activity, not just spectating) for ALL who attend.

Why does this philosophy have to exclude large tyre sizes, I don’t understand?

Remember the old slogan
"Access for All"
We shouldn’t have to adopt that within our own ranks.
We all know how it feels to discriminated against, don’t do it to your fellow members.

[Gigantor]

To me this debate/argument about the Suzuki Club making changes to our
Jamboree is pretty straight forward.
The changes are being made to an event, a very much social event that has
worked excellent for the past decade, from all the hard work and efforts of
clubs and members previously hosting the event.
My argument is, and I'll say again, because there are a lot out there who
just don't seem to understand the point of the argument and go off on their
own little side show.
1 The Suzuki Club are only hosting the event, and I can't see why they
should have the power to change the event especially when the event format
existing is a working one. (that's a fact).
2 (The Suzuki Club mention they have the full support from the
association), The Jamboree belongs to all association members/clubs and
therefore I felt it is very unfair that this could happen without prior
feedback from all clubs and members in regards to these changes. (that's a
fact and a fair call).

I have not once bagged the Suzuki Club, nor association in regards to this
matter, however some choose to bag me for what I see is nothing other than a
fair call.
I have nothing against the Suzuki Club nor standard vehicles, all I want is
to keep the Jamboree running like it has been so all class of vehicle are
invited.
The result from this, if you choose to bag me, than expect a bagging back

Before you make a comment against my view, read the emails and understand
the principal of the argument first before you go off and badger me.
Thankyou for those who do see my view, although I would like to see more.
This exercise is nothing more than to make the J5 host aware of our views on
these changes to the Jamboree. I was going to speak on a personal level to
the Suzuki Club but new nothing would come of my concerns. This way, they at
least have to listen and hopefully with enough positive feedback may help
the Club decide whether the changes should apply to J5.
Although I said my bit, its now up to you out there to make the difference.
Regards

Shane Barlow
p.s Its now apparently confirmed the tyre limit is 33"

[zookjedi]

ive never been to a jamboree but plan on going to next years, but i agree with Gigantor.

as everyone points out its not a calender competion , its a big fun get to gether , if so than why put restrictions on vehicles wanting to play in the not so serious comps that will be running their?

more vehicles allowed the more people the more fun , as for the old man saying to just put on 36" tyres , just because some of the big tyred rigs out there are worth a small fortune doesn't mean they have money to burn (their probably broke from the intital build cost) .

its meant to be for fun like most comps get togethers etc , big small as wheelers we should BACK them all

[big38l]

I have been attending jamboree`s since 1999 back when i had my trusty old swb pajero. What some people don`t realise is that the jamboree has been and always will be for ALL clubs and for ALL members. Now in most clubs there are going to be guys and gals who are members that have vehicles that wear shoes bigger than 36inches. On that note most if not all have attended previous J`s and totally enjoyed the atmosphere of the event. Now i know of at least 16 guys who have wives and kids , who are most dissapointed with the fact that they can`t go and have some fun with wheelers from all over the place becuase their rig is not "basic". I have no beef with the suzuki club and it is not a smear campaign, i appreaciate them putting thier hand up to look after the event, but the key word is "look after" not change it. Those of you who compare Jamboree`s with woodpecker, Nissan Trials etc, think of how hard it is to get a drive in one of those events, pretty damn hard for a new guy or your average wheeler. Most position in those comp get filled up mighty quick , which shows the amount of 4wd`s out ther that aren`t considered "basic"

Come on people leave the jamboree as is, i love it, my family love it and so do my friends and their families(alot of whom have been converted to 4b`s after being to a J)

[Gigantor]

Hi everyone,
Just following up from discussions last night with Greg Hamilton(J5 host).

I'll try and keep this brief
My approach in bringing this topic to a forum level discussion in my eyes was an approach I thought would best suit my concerns regarding changes being made for J5.
I was approached earlier by the Suzuki Club to discuss my concerns.
However I decided not to make contact immediately, but to wait and see other people views hoping that any positive feedback supporting my concerns would help convince J5 host to listen.
I had honest concerns, which were only fair to be answered by both the association and J5 host.
None of this was about bagging the host or association, but to derive the logic from the rumoured changes to J5.
Discrimination was my major concern in regards to tyre size limit, which ultimately effected the higher end class of vehicle.
To try and understand the logic behind changing an existing event that was very popular and currently working fine.

Maybe the situation could have been handled a bit better from both parties to avoid one on one slagging matches, which developed from the mere fact that people reading the
threads don't grasp the sole nature and intentions of what the email was originally all about.

Further more to this I have since made contact with the J5 host.
We had a very lengthy conversation discussing the concerns at hand with J5.
Derived from this discussion and feedback from the forums/threads has prompted J5 host to chair a meeting today to finalise the makeup of J5.
Nothing yet is finalised including the rumoured 33" and 36" tyre limit.
I'm not convinced the style approach to my concerns was entirely the best method, but stating this I took a stand in what I firmly believed in.
From the discussions I had with Greg Hamilton (J5 host), and the waiting with anticipation of an outcome from the Suzuki Club meeting being chaired today,
I feel confident Jamboree 2005 will once again be an occasion for all clubs and members affiliated with the association to enjoy and participate in, at all levels.
I'm hoping there will be no tyre limit as such, and as a trade off the handi-cap scoring system will apply to rigs with large tyres.
For a social event as such, I'm sure drivers of the big rigs wouldn't be concerned of the scoring system, and simply be overwhelmed to once again be part of the
Jamboree and witness the best social 4wd gathering on the calendar.
The mere fact of us being allowed to participate and mingle with all class of vehicle already make's us WINNER's !!!

Please lets now wait in anticipation the Suzuki Clubs result for J5 makeup.
Thankyou all that gave feedback throughout the 4wd motorsport forum and Outerlimit4x4 threads, and although it wasn't a huge display of public outcry,
I think without doubt has made a difference to the outcome of J5.
If the end result is a negative outcome, lets LEAVE IT at that, we tried and that in my eyes is a positive on its own.
On the other hand if its a positive outcome, lets celebrate and praise the J5 host for listening to our concerns.

Regards
Shane Barlow
( the owner of a big rig, and now suffering from stress, RSI, eye strain, tiredness and sore fingers)

[Maggot4x4]

So what was the outcome, did the J5 committee continue to be the love child of Bob Carr and Pam Allen or did they return to the dark side where they belong?

I was running 36" Swampers at the 1996 Jamboree and just cause I am only running 33's ATM dosen't mean that other can't run bigger tyres. What about the guys running 37" MTR's? And what if I put my worn 38" TSL's on, they only measure to 36".

[Dozoor]

All Is Good, Check there site and figure your Percantage.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=29938

Link here.


Larry