Whats the deal with consulting an Automotive engineer. How do they charge for their services and such. Was thinking that by calling them and asking what to do your using their time, and their giving a service while not making any money, so whats the go. Do you have to make an appointment or something??
This is in regaurds to speaking to an engineer about future modifications, like whats allowed and how you should go about it. Obviously when you go to get your car passed over pits they get money for an engineering certificate but otherwise I have no idea.
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Consulting Automotive Engineers
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
It all depends on the engineer 
I'm currently in my second year of my auto engineer degree and they are a funny bunch.
Usually it's a case of ring them up and see who is prepared to give you info. Or ask them exactly what you've asked here, what do I do in regards to future mods. Most of them keep as much as they can close to thier chest and don;t give out much becuase as you said they are giving away info.
My advice would be to do a bit of a ring around and find the most helpful and go from there.
I'm currently in my second year of my auto engineer degree and they are a funny bunch.
Usually it's a case of ring them up and see who is prepared to give you info. Or ask them exactly what you've asked here, what do I do in regards to future mods. Most of them keep as much as they can close to thier chest and don;t give out much becuase as you said they are giving away info.
My advice would be to do a bit of a ring around and find the most helpful and go from there.
[quote="LEXX"]It all depends on the engineer
I'm currently in my second year of my auto engineer degree and they are a funny bunch.
I found my local guy was willing to give advice but tried to keep my plans for mods very conservative. I must've rang him 20 times b4 I met him, think he was starting to get frustrated with me.
Thought I owed it to him to give him my business when time came to get my truck passed, turned out he hated 4by's and didn't really want his name on mine- but it seemed he wanted the money at the end of the day (when I offered to go to someone else to get it passed).
Was interesting to see he had listed all my previous phone calls on his computer.
Josh.
I'm currently in my second year of my auto engineer degree and they are a funny bunch.
I found my local guy was willing to give advice but tried to keep my plans for mods very conservative. I must've rang him 20 times b4 I met him, think he was starting to get frustrated with me.
Thought I owed it to him to give him my business when time came to get my truck passed, turned out he hated 4by's and didn't really want his name on mine- but it seemed he wanted the money at the end of the day (when I offered to go to someone else to get it passed).
Was interesting to see he had listed all my previous phone calls on his computer.
Josh.
LEXX wrote:It all depends on the engineer
I'm currently in my second year of my auto engineer degree and they are a funny bunch.
Usually it's a case of ring them up and see who is prepared to give you info. Or ask them exactly what you've asked here, what do I do in regards to future mods. Most of them keep as much as they can close to thier chest and don;t give out much becuase as you said they are giving away info.
My advice would be to do a bit of a ring around and find the most helpful and go from there.
So true!
MY JEEP BUILD
v840 wrote: [Not a shot at Tonka] It's like saying, hell I've got two nuts, I may as well cut one of them off for the hell of it. I ain't using it.[/NAS@T] It's ridiculous!
slosh wrote: I found my local guy was willing to give advice but tried to keep my plans for mods very conservative. I must've rang him 20 times b4 I met him, think he was starting to get frustrated with me.
Thought I owed it to him to give him my business when time came to get my truck passed, turned out he hated 4by's and didn't really want his name on mine- but it seemed he wanted the money at the end of the day (when I offered to go to someone else to get it passed).
Was interesting to see he had listed all my previous phone calls on his computer.
Josh.
Josh
Im pretty sure I am using the same fella as you! He didnt sound to pleased that it was for a 4WD when I called, but was happy when he heard the term "KIT" for the engine conversion!
I havent meet him face to face or anything yet, only a phone call before I started anything. I said everything I wanted to do and he said yeah just bring it down when it is done and have a look at whats been done and he will sound test it!
Doesn't seem to talk to much!
Cheers
Lucas
being an engineer, not automotive but civil/geotechnical, I get frustrated with talking to someone and giving advice over phone. As a professional, you are liable for the advise you give. Could you imagine being sued over something you said over the phone, without even being paid for it???
Do the right thing, go and see the engineer with the plans / ideas. Pay for the advice/input from day dot, and at the end, you'll have a happy engineer that should put name to paper.
Do the right thing, go and see the engineer with the plans / ideas. Pay for the advice/input from day dot, and at the end, you'll have a happy engineer that should put name to paper.
Heath & Melissa - 93 GQ LWB.
Have as detailed a plan as you can. Try and provide all the info you can possibly find. Put together a series of pics etc of what you want to do. Really nut it out before turning up. The last thing they would want to see/hear is "I just want to put some 44's on Patrol and a really big V8"
From memory NAMs proposal for his Suzuki portal thingo was a pretty involved presentation document with a lot of research done with relevant stats etc. Yes he was knocked back but more so for the scope of what he wanted to do was just unengineerable but the way he went about it certainly made a good impression I'd imagine
From memory NAMs proposal for his Suzuki portal thingo was a pretty involved presentation document with a lot of research done with relevant stats etc. Yes he was knocked back but more so for the scope of what he wanted to do was just unengineerable but the way he went about it certainly made a good impression I'd imagine
Ransom note = demand + collage
bowser wrote:i'm currently doing mechanical engineering and are half way through second year, do you know if the subjects are simullar in automotive as i would like to change over
All dependant on what YOUR or other uni's offer as courses. Not to many offer Automotive at this stage. This is in Vic anyway.
Normally first 2 or so years are common as you need the same base to learn from but after that is varies.
I am also looking to change eng streams but i am in 1st year.
Good luck - Hijack off.
Dave.
Land Rover Discovery - GQ conversion underway
I'm actually just about to finish my first year of engineering. Its a common first year so I don't specialise in anything yet but I'm going to do mechatronic engineering. I thought to become an automotive engineer thats qualified to pass vehicles you had to have around 10 years exp in the area before the gov let you do it??? I don't know.
Anyways back on topic...You rekon you would just prepare a report on your plans, submit it to the engineer and see if they say yes or no? That being the fair way which seems reasonable to me.
Anyways back on topic...You rekon you would just prepare a report on your plans, submit it to the engineer and see if they say yes or no? That being the fair way which seems reasonable to me.
I am a qualified Mech Eng and a Member of IEAust. Normally before you are able to apply to the transport authority you have to have a CPEng qualification (which I am trying to get at the moment) Basically this covers off against a list of braod comptetencies that IEAust would expect a professional engineer to have. It take between 1-2 year to get CPEng but you really need about 3-4 yrs experience before you start so that you have something to base your career episode reports on.
Cheers
Paul
Cheers
Paul
1993 Triton V6 on the Build up.....not any more as I now have a Zook to play with.
I.M.P.O.S.E wrote:slosh wrote: I found my local guy was willing to give advice but tried to keep my plans for mods very conservative. I must've rang him 20 times b4 I met him, think he was starting to get frustrated with me.
Josh
Im pretty sure I am using the same fella as you! He didnt sound to pleased that it was for a 4WD when I called, but was happy when he heard the term "KIT" for the engine conversion!
I havent meet him face to face or anything yet, only a phone call before I started anything. I said everything I wanted to do and he said yeah just bring it down when it is done and have a look at whats been done and he will sound test it!
Doesn't seem to talk to much!
Cheers
Lucas
Yeah he likes engine conversions I think that's what he mainly does, and rod stuff. He's been pretty fair to me, think his bark is worse than his bite.
I think you need to find some ballpark idea on if your planned mods can be legally engineered before you start a project, so I'd be more inclined to go to anyone who would give me some free advice, rather than someone who says- "I won't tell you anything until you pay me because I could be sued for whatever I say".
After reading my last post that I probably worded it a bit wrong.
I'm going my engineering degree thorugh Swinburn and also doing my apprentiship through TAFE in engineering and fabrication with automotive modules added. I'm trying to meld the two together.
My employer gets subsidised for putting me through uni and TAFE which great. We are already a custom fabrication business and I have had my last 3 years of fabrication recognised as prior learning through both institutions which is also nice.
So I'm hoping within two years I'll be able to go for my VASS, but we will have to see.
So I do 2.5 days a week of uni/TAFE and the rest is on the job training.
The advise being given is exactly right though, with a engineer the advice given can so easily be taken out of context so advice has to be given at the engineers discresion. So it's similar to doing a business plan, have everything researched and on paper that way the engineer can look at it and go through it with instead of over the phone.
I'm going my engineering degree thorugh Swinburn and also doing my apprentiship through TAFE in engineering and fabrication with automotive modules added. I'm trying to meld the two together.
My employer gets subsidised for putting me through uni and TAFE which great. We are already a custom fabrication business and I have had my last 3 years of fabrication recognised as prior learning through both institutions which is also nice.
So I'm hoping within two years I'll be able to go for my VASS, but we will have to see.
So I do 2.5 days a week of uni/TAFE and the rest is on the job training.
The advise being given is exactly right though, with a engineer the advice given can so easily be taken out of context so advice has to be given at the engineers discresion. So it's similar to doing a business plan, have everything researched and on paper that way the engineer can look at it and go through it with instead of over the phone.
The advise being given is exactly right though, with a engineer the advice given can so easily be taken out of context so advice has to be given at the engineers discresion. So it's similar to doing a business plan, have everything researched and on paper that way the engineer can look at it and go through it with instead of over the phone.[/quote]
That's fair enough but where do you start your research? I used to look at the rigs in 4wd Monthly and be blown away with what you could get registered, not knowing that a lot of the rigs were sporting mods that were not legal... and there is variation between engineers as to what they will pass too.
If you don't want to hassle an engineer to begin with, maybe get a copy of ADR's and state regulations go from there.
That's fair enough but where do you start your research? I used to look at the rigs in 4wd Monthly and be blown away with what you could get registered, not knowing that a lot of the rigs were sporting mods that were not legal... and there is variation between engineers as to what they will pass too.
If you don't want to hassle an engineer to begin with, maybe get a copy of ADR's and state regulations go from there.
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Most transport departments will have a phone number direct to the modifications department - the people there will be able to give you information straight from the code of practice - you can't use the advice as gospel, but some of the people will be able to fax you relevant paperwork from the code to use as reference. I have used this a lot of times, saves wasting time with an approved officer (just with tyre kicking questions - how do I lift a Mav 
).
The modification department of your states relevant transport authority should be your first place to call before planning or carrying out any modification to your vehicle.
The approved officers scheme works well, but their time is money and phone enquiries are not something they can charge out for.
).
The modification department of your states relevant transport authority should be your first place to call before planning or carrying out any modification to your vehicle.
The approved officers scheme works well, but their time is money and phone enquiries are not something they can charge out for.
Built, not bought.
This is a bit of a tricky one. There has to be a bit of give and take with time and advice given. From my end, don't ring up and piss in our pockets about what you 'might' do if you win the lotto. Be realistic about what you are going to do and the time frame. Like all businesses time is precious and no one begrudges customers wanting information to make an informed decision on but be honest and upfront. I think it is best to find an one engineer you can trust and use them as much as possible rather than jumping from engineer to engineer. Painters, sparkies, chippies or engineers, no one like to finish someone elses half cooked job.
Some people whinge at the price to do an approval and only see the time they are there with you and forget about the time spent on the phone giving support. Generally modification approvals are only worth doing if you are doing them full time, otherwise the amount of time you can burn just does not make it worth doing. To look at the vehicle two or three times, do the paperwork, take on the legal liability of the welding of someone you don't know all for a couple of hundred bucks.
Everyone is always hesitant to say what you can or can not do because it is not unlike the relevant authorities to change their minds and the customer then wants to know why you told them they could go ahead. This is why many often suggest you check yourself with the relevant traffic authority.
If you want design work done then that is usually done on a $/hr basis. There is a definite difference in customers when you are dealing with another business or the end user. Generally when you are working with another business they accept that time is money and the most important thing to getting the job out the door is a fashion that it will not come back to bite you. If you are dealing with the end user it is usually a hobby so time is not money so to speak and they will screw you to save $5. I give advice freely to repeat customers who are trying to do the right thing and often you can pick the tyre kickers, but not always.
I generally only do mod work out of interest. With my main customers I usually charge a retainer once we start and as this runs out they have the opportunity to top up and keep going. Other customers I charge 100% up front. Remember here i'm refering to jobs significatly larger than just a suspension lift.
Did I clear that up any or just stir the water?
Some people whinge at the price to do an approval and only see the time they are there with you and forget about the time spent on the phone giving support. Generally modification approvals are only worth doing if you are doing them full time, otherwise the amount of time you can burn just does not make it worth doing. To look at the vehicle two or three times, do the paperwork, take on the legal liability of the welding of someone you don't know all for a couple of hundred bucks.
Everyone is always hesitant to say what you can or can not do because it is not unlike the relevant authorities to change their minds and the customer then wants to know why you told them they could go ahead. This is why many often suggest you check yourself with the relevant traffic authority.
If you want design work done then that is usually done on a $/hr basis. There is a definite difference in customers when you are dealing with another business or the end user. Generally when you are working with another business they accept that time is money and the most important thing to getting the job out the door is a fashion that it will not come back to bite you. If you are dealing with the end user it is usually a hobby so time is not money so to speak and they will screw you to save $5. I give advice freely to repeat customers who are trying to do the right thing and often you can pick the tyre kickers, but not always.
I generally only do mod work out of interest. With my main customers I usually charge a retainer once we start and as this runs out they have the opportunity to top up and keep going. Other customers I charge 100% up front. Remember here i'm refering to jobs significatly larger than just a suspension lift.
Did I clear that up any or just stir the water?
auto_eng wrote:Did I clear that up any or just stir the water?
That's a good way to approach it. However, what about the difference between engineers as to what can and can't be passed? To use myself as an example, I would like to have had a 6 inch suspension lift and 35 inch tyres on my truck approved. The engineer I had been hassling all thru the project ended up agreeing to approve the suspension but not the wheels (during the project he was vague- "Just do the mods and I'll take a look when you've finished"). Yet I know down Sydney way that a number of auto engineers would have approved the lot based on what I've seen/ heard. It's a shame you can't find these guys before you start your mods in the hope they'll get passed.
Basically it comes down to a couple of things the first is precedence within the state ie If it has been done before it can be done again but the bottom line is legal liability. I spent 2 days with a QC going over the legal liability that we as engineers are subjected to. IT is pretty scary. That is why the precedence thing is so important and why there seems to be a level of conseratism when it comes to the approval of modifications by some engineers.
Cheers
Paul
Cheers
Paul
1993 Triton V6 on the Build up.....not any more as I now have a Zook to play with.
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slosh wrote:auto_eng wrote:Did I clear that up any or just stir the water?
That's a good way to approach it. However, what about the difference between engineers as to what can and can't be passed? To use myself as an example, I would like to have had a 6 inch suspension lift and 35 inch tyres on my truck approved. The engineer I had been hassling all thru the project ended up agreeing to approve the suspension but not the wheels (during the project he was vague- "Just do the mods and I'll take a look when you've finished"). Yet I know down Sydney way that a number of auto engineers would have approved the lot based on what I've seen/ heard. It's a shame you can't find these guys before you start your mods in the hope they'll get passed.
The reason he was prolly vague about the "6"inch lift was that lifts can and do vary, however tyre sizes do not. According to the code of practice the allowed suspension height increase (or lowering) is no more than one third of the original bump stop clearance (on the compression cycle) and no more than one third for the rebound (or droop) cycle. The 6 inch coil you were going to fit may have raised the vehicle within the allowed one third increase with static ride height measured. (many variables come into play - type of vehicle, accessories fitted, and the things you can't see like coil rate and spring composition) so the definition of a 6 inch lift can be as long as a piece of string - you may only know how high it will be is after it is fitted, and had time to settle in.
Most passenger vehicles in aus will have been ADR'd with certain size tyres, very little variance in the sizes is allowed, hence the no compliance on your application for 35's. In qld, they just won't get passed.
The engineers do a great job, but I can see their frustration, being hounded by people all the time asking q's about stuff they can't (or won't as it's their intellectual property and training they are selling) give info or comment on. Pester the people at vehicle modifications first with endless q's first (honestly they are very helpful - they have all the up to date info) then you can go to an engineer with a very clear cut case of what you want - trust me, the engineer will be very pleased you have done the legwork and will be more interested in taking on the job, it will go smoother and your wallet will be fatter...
Built, not bought.
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