Looking at a Vitara and need some help

[matt g]

Hi All,

I was just wondering if anyone could offer some suggestions regarding buying a Vitara, and the sorts of modifications I would like to do.

The vehicle I'm currently looking towards is the v6 4 door. I tow a 12' tinny every now and then, so I ithought the v6 might be the better engine option - but I could be wrong

I'm coming from a manual vehicle, so my natural inclination would be for manual, but they seem to be quite rare, and I've been advised that an auto would probably not have been driven as hard - more likely suburban car for mum and the kids etc.

Is there much difference between the two? I live in the city, so I guess auto might make daily commuting around town easier.

My real concern was the ride height in the vehicle I took for a drive - the driving position in the zook was at least a head height lower than in my old dead-shock-absorber pajero, and I'm really used to being above traffic

So, can anyone offer some (non technical - or at least technical with explaination) advice about what I could do to get that extra ride height? Traction 4 quoted me $1450 for an OME suspension upgrade that would give 30mm of lift, but 3cm doesn't seem like it would be noticable.

I've seen some zooks that sit quite high off the road - is it mainly the tyres that do this, or are there other options?

I'm thinking a total budget of around $3000 or so to go from the stock tyres / suspension etc, but again I'm not really sure what that will get me.

If anyone can help I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

Matt.

[Charlie]

I have a V6 and 12ft tinny myself and V6 don't have much power down low expecially with bigger tyres.I'd more than likely buy a four if I got another one.V6 are slightly wider in the body and chasis as well so the choice of aftermarket gear is a bit more restricted than standard models.
Regards Charlie

[matt g]

Hi Charlie,

If the V6 is lacking low rev power, is the 4 any better in that regard?

What sort of aftermarket gear are you referring to? is it just things like bullbars, or are there differneces in suspension etc?

Cheers
Matt

[Charlie]

Fours have a lot more power down low but of course you can't rev as hard. The motors a lot heavier so add a bullbar your looking at custom springs from Allsrrings or you won't be happy with the lift.
Regards Charlie

[Jwreck]

Hey Matt..

Additional options for lift would be a body lift (2 inch is most common, least pain.) and or coil spacers. Looking into spacers myself at the moment, it seems strictly lift and little if no wheel travel.

Body lift is the go if you're planning on those taller tyres too. Coil spacers will add to the higher ride. The combo with 31s for rubber will get you lifted.

Good luck, J.

[nicbeer]

Try Antt for some info.

cheers

[cj]

I'd probably look at 235/85R16's with a 50mm bodylift and and an Old Man Emu suspension with 20mm coil spacers, some camber bolts and a diff spacer. You could then pick up some 5.12 ring & pinions to help with the gearing. That would give you lift, ground clearance and better ride and handling. The tyres will fit on the standard rims and won't hang out.

[matt g]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies.

Charlie, I finally managed to hunt down an engine comparison at sofcom
[url]
http://www.ebroadcast.com.au/ecars/Suzu ... /1997.html
[/url]

4cyl power: 71kW at 5600rpm, torque: 132Nm at 4000rpm
V6 power: 100kW at 6500rpm, torque: 172Nm at 4000rpm

The 2 door model seemed to get a much nicer 4cyl than the 4 door:

dohc 2-litre 4-cyl engine (97kW at 6200rpm, 166Nm at 3000rpm)

I would have thought the torque would be more important for towing - perhaps I'm wrong though.

Jwerck, I really need to find some sort of jargon glossary as a lot of the terms are over my head

From what I've gathered so far - the Vitara doesn't like more than 60mm of lift. Is that just the suspension or does it include body lift as well?

CJ: I was with you up until "at" . The body lift you're suggesting - 2", that I more or less understand. What do the coil spacers do? Is that in addition to the 30mm the OME suspension upgrade gets me? Of course knowing what a coil spacer is will help

Any suggestions where I can find a guide to what the tyre designations mean?

Thanks

Matt

[Charlie]

CJ,I think you might have have blown the $3000 dollar budget there. You can certainly build up a V6 but its slightly more expensive than a standard vitara.
Regards Charlie

[cj]

From what I've gathered so far - the Vitara doesn't like more than 60mm of lift. Is that just the suspension or does it include body lift as well?

CJ: I was with you up until "at" . The body lift you're suggesting - 2", that I more or less understand. What do the coil spacers do? Is that in addition to the 30mm the OME suspension upgrade gets me? Of course knowing what a coil spacer is will help

Any suggestions where I can find a guide to what the tyre designations mean?

Thanks

Matt

Matt, the 60mm figure you're refering to is in relation to the suspension not the bodylift. If you lift the IFS too much it does nasty things to the CV angle. The OME kit doesn't give a lot of lift but the addition of coil spacers (sit on top of the coil springs) adds a bit more. I used two 10mm OME packers but there are other choices available in different sizes. The camber bolts will allow the camber to be set to factory specs after the lift. I have some springs and rear shocks but no struts available. A 2"/50mm bodylift is fairly straight forward and seems to be OK in most States. 235/85R16 refers to a tyre size i.e. 235mm wide, sidewall height is 85% of tyre width and fits a 16" rim diameter. This is a reasonably common size and you might pick some good second hand tyres up cheap from someone upgrading to larger rubber. If you can do the work yourself you will save quite a bit. It may be worth your while to check out a Suzuki club in your state. The diff gears are a nice addition to correct the gearing for the larger tyres, try Wreckers or posting on the Wanted board here. It could be done on your budget with a bit of shopping around and a little bit of elbow grease.

[matt g]

Hi cj,

Ahh this is helping, thanks.

OK, what's a "CV" and what's critical about its angle? (I could probably bore anyone to death going through technical stats of Macs, Design theory, boats or fishing tackle, but cars are something I'm just starting to learn about when it comes to the nitty gritty)

SO theoretically once an OME kit gives 30mm of lift, you can then put upto 30mm of spacer on top of the springs to get towards that magic number of 60mm?

Then a 50 mm body lift gives me a potential 11 cm of extra height before I put different tyres on it? When people refer to putting "31"s or whatever on the vehicle is that a tyre diameter in inches?

Unfortunately the NSW suzuki club doesn't have another meet before my current vehicles rego runs out, and I'd be lucky to get the cost of rego + greenslip back on it.

Then of course I've got to try to find out if I can get it insured with all these changes... *argh*

Thanks for the help.

Cheers
Matt.

[Beastmavster]

There's nothing to stop you putting more body lift on if you want.... 2" is the normal legal maximum in each state without engineers certification (excluding QLD) is all.

3" body lift is a lot more work but does have advantages such as being able to move the tank above the chassis rails for much more rear ground clearance.

remember 2" body + 2" suspension +31" tyres (2 1/2" more height) = 6 1/2" or more than half a foot taller.....

This is almost doubling the ground clearance under the car (with the exclusion of the rear diff which only gains 60 odd mm)

That's quite a long way to go up - mine went up about 6"..... and provided pretty good ground clearance....


If your goal is to eventually go up higher than this maybe you should be speaking to someone like sam@overkill about a Hilux axle swap now rather than laying out the $$$ for something that wont keep you satisfied for a long time...... then with engineering approval in NSW 33"s at least should be possible and much more height.





there's plenty of tyre conversion guides on the web...... just use google.

[matt g]

Hi Beastmavster,

I don't suppose you'd have any photos of what your (I'm assuming Vitara?) looked like after a 6" lift?

Cheers
Matt

[Beastmavster]

Low.... I'm talking 6" lift including tyres... not 6" suspension lift + tyres.

Aim was to keep it low.... looks kinda like antt's did before he painted it orange except his is LWB...

I have some shots of it... gimme a little while to find the directory on 4wd links....

[Beastmavster]

http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/gallery/suzukiviagra

[matt g]

Hey Beastmavster,

Thanks for the links - yeah I figured you meant 6" total. I'm sorta wondering weather it would perhaps be better to look for a sierra instead, are they any easier to raise up.

Heh, I recognise I may have a vehicle lift fetish in the making, some people like cars as low to the ground as possible, some like aircraft carrier size befinned American monsters, I like tall

So now I've got to find out what the Sierra's towing capacity is. From what I see by the prices it may be closer to my budget anyway...

Cheers
Matt

[Beastmavster]

If you buy a sierra you can swap it for a vitara anyway in this forum there's a thread.

Seriously you can get a vitara for $3000 (I paid $3000 for mine without rwc and needing some work and sold mine for $3500 with all the stuff done to it as you see it).

If you want tall you can make a Vitara tall.... just I was deliberately trying to keep it low for stability reasons.

It would have been cheaper to SAS my Vitara and fit a rockhopper than the changeover cost of the Maverick I upgraded to. If I was still down in Vic where I could have done the SAS and got it legally engineered on 33"s or similar I would have gone down that path.

Up here in QLD no chance - so the reason for the swap over.

[antt]

my pos with 2 inch body lift, 2 inch old man emu lift, and 32x10.5 tires (about 5 inches taller than standard)



if you want a tall rig, dont by a vitara.

mine is low, awesomely stable, and sidehills like a champion. the thing that really lets it down is the rampover angle

[matt g]

Hi Beastmavster,

Would you (or anyone else) mind explaining what "rwc" & "SAS" mean?

Antt: I take it the rear doors don't open on your vehicle (love the colour)?

I quite like the look of this vehicle:

http://www.zook.org/albums/030222-Advan ... 35_IMG.jpg

Though i get the impression from this shot that there's something seriously non-standard about the front axle

http://www.zook.org/albums/030222-Advan ... 36_IMG.jpg

Any idea what the lift in that would be total?

Cheers
Matt

[antt]

RWC is Road Worthy Certificate

SAS is Solid Axle Swap

that pic that you put up is of celia barry's vitara, she's actually on this forum, but rarely posts. that is an old pic where it was still a wagon with hilux axles under it, so yes, the front has been modified heavily with a custom built 5(?) link setup.

that vitara has now been cut into a ute, had a v6 commodore motor put into it, and running patrol transfercase if i remember correctly.

and no, my back doors dont open, but the internal part of the cage has meant that the backseats cant go back into it anyway

[SiKiD_01]

i live in the NT, so i'm not too sure about RWC but i think its Road Worthy Certificate, which means your vehicle is in a good and safe condition to be driven on the road.

SAS - solid axle swap, meaning cutting all that IFS (independant front suspension) out and fitting a solid axle/diff in place, like a sierra. i think most people opt for toyota hilux diffs front and back.

i think the vit in the pics is Celia Barrys Vit, right? has a v6 i think, and not too sure about the drive train anymore. others will have better details.

[antt]

celia's vit now

[matt g]

Hey Antt,

haha that's wild.

well just spoke to Overkill and am waiting for an estimate on prices for SAS and Hilux axle swaps, so we'll see what the options are.

Once again, thanks everyone for your help

Cheers
Matt