Supra vs Dyna Gearboxes

[ozrunner]

Yes most Turbo diesel 5 speed Surfs have the R151F as well as the current model turbo diesel Hilux's.

The R151/150 and R154 are the same family so equal strength, just different gear ratios and the R154 has a longer imput shaft.

It will bolt straight up to a chain transfer. The only way to mate an R series to a gear transfer is to get the factory transfer adapter from a USA 1986/87 22R EFI as it came with an R151 and gear transfer.

The attached pic shows a R151 with the gear transfer adapter (1) and transfer (2) a buddy in the US was checking for me. 2nd pic is unpacking it in my shed .

Marlin was actually getting the 5.14 gear set to swap into the R151 from OZ. Their from a R452.



[/img]

[Toyo Truck]

So does that mean that the new hiluxs have a 23 spline transfer case?
Are they chain or gear driven on the new luxes? I know most surfs
have the chain driven transfer.

Skip says there are 2 different bellhousings...
If the new TD luxes use an R154, does that mean that you could swap
the TD for a bolt in 7M-GTE?? OR
is it the same pattern as the 1 or 2JZ-GTEs?
OR is it a different pattern altogether???

Ozrunner,
Did you buy yours from the US?? How much did it cost you for the
R151 with gear transfer adaptor and 23 spline transfer case?

Can you convert a "normal" 21 spline transfer to a 23?
ie. can you buy and replace just the output shaft??

Cheers,
Bart

[Skip]

Toyo Truck: If a new TD lux has an R154, then yes you can bolt in a 7mgte or 1JZGTE as long as you have their bellhousings. It's safe to say that niether the 7M or 1JZ have the same bellhousing pattern as the new TD Im not sure if a 2JZ has the same bellhousing pattern as a 1JZ, but I would say it would, but remeber no 2JZ came with R series box, they either had the W58 or V160 in the turbo model.

I only know of 2 R154 bellhousings, the 7M and the 1J ones. Im sure if the R154 is being used on other toyota now like the TD hilux, then there will be more.

[Toyo Truck]

Oz-Runner and Skip,

What sort of transfer case is run in the TD??
It would have to be 23 spline wouldn't it (if it was mating to R154 box??)

cheers,
Bart

[Skip]

No idea mate

[ozrunner]

The TD Hilux and Surfs use a R151 not a R154. Supra's etc are the only cars with the R154.

No 4Runners or Hilux's in Oz ever came with a R151 and a gear transfer. All V6 4Runners and Surfs with the R series trans use the chain transfer as does the TD hilux.

Did you buy yours from the US?? How much did it cost you for the
R151 with gear transfer adaptor and 23 spline transfer case?

I got everything as per the pic for $US200 but beware shipping and customs is a killer.

Can you convert a "normal" 21 spline transfer to a 23?
ie. can you buy and replace just the output shaft??

If you are referring to the chain transfer then yes you can easily swap a 23 front shaft from V6 chain transfer into a 4cyl chain transfer. I did.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~ozrunner/5Speed2.html

I have never checked the spline count on the current TD transfer but I would guess its the same as the V6 4Runner and 23 spline.[/url]

[cbr]

John,

Have you changed from the r154 and the chain v6 t/case to a r151 and a gear t/case??

So how much did it cost all up (including shiping and duty) to land the r151 and t/case??

Chris

[Toyo Truck]

Sorry Ozrunner, got confused about part numbers there.
I meant to write R151

That is an awesome price $200 US dollars for all that!
For a gearbox, transfer case and adaptor.
I'd like to know what the shipping set you back though.
They'd be pretty heavy parts to ship wouldn't they?

So all you'd need is a motor now. What beast are you putting up front?
Are you going for an 7M or 1G or a V8 or what?


cheers,
Bart

[ozrunner]

Chris / Bart

I am still using the R154 as its wider gear ratios suit my purposes. I only wanted this R151 to get its shorter rear output shaft and its overdrive gears so I can set up a spare R154 for 4wd use. Adrian now has the adaptor and gear transfer.

Although actual shipping from the US was ok it was the Oz customs and other bullshit charges etc that you have to keep in mind. All up landed the whole deal cost $A2050.

Bart, my 4Runner has had a V8 since 1994 and its set up for better than average 4wd use and long distance travelling etc. I need to update my page as I have done a lot of changes, eg I have just finished fitting a Detroit Electrac, alloy GT40x heads, custom extractors and electric disconnects plus I am working on other projects at this very moment. I will get to it soon, LOL.

HO 4Runner

[Skip]

John: Just letting you know ive nearly got the 1JZGTE powered Bundy on the road after ALOT of hardwork . Luckily for me aluminium fabrication has not been a problem. Should get it dyno tuned next week, ill email you some pics.

Brent

[ozrunner]

Brent

Excellent.

So what are you doing on the internet. Get out there and finish it

JD

[Toyo Truck]

John,

Mate how does she go with the 5.0L motor??
I bet it goes pretty hard. How is the fuel economy though?
Have you had any reliabiltiy problems with the conversion?
Such as broken Uni's or C.V's?? I keep getting told that a
lux/runner drive-trains cannot handle a V8?

Also, I like the pics on your site.
Have you got any of you flexin' the runner up,
or gettin it awwwn with the V8??

Cheers,
Bart

[ozrunner]

Bart

Mate how does she go with the 5.0L motor??

Mate the HO 5.0 is awesome and a great engine. In its present guise it has around 260kw and its very very quick, but that was not the main goal. I wanted it to be able to cruise long distances easily etc but also have better than normal 4wd abilities and good mpg.

Besides being able to easily cruise at low rpms

http://members.iinet.net.au/~ozrunner/graphics/Cruising.jpg

it returns and excellent mpg. Cruising at 110kph no problems getting around 12.5L/100k. On a trip to Darwin on the open highway it returned 18L/100 @ 150kph. I am currently working on fitting a GT40X lower manifold I just received from the US and will also be fabricating my own upper maifold for it. Difficult to know what affect this may have on mpg and HP but I'll soon find out.

Have you had any reliabiltiy problems with the conversion?

I don't really do a lot of exteme 4wd but so far nothing has broken but I am not expecting anything to. The Toy R series trans are super strong along with the transfer. I have an ARB up front but recently fitted the new Detroit Electrac in the rear.

It has now done in excess of 200,000klm since I fitted the HO and I have not had any problems whatsoever, hence I will take it anywhere.

Have you got any of you flexin' the runner up, or gettin it awwwn with the V8??

I do take it into some wild places but have no pics of any consequence as most of the time I don't have a camera or just forget to take a pic.

I just got back from my 4th across Oz trip over your way and the HO makes this trip very enjoyable . I met up with some Surf guys in Melbourne and they took me on a trip to Mt Disappointment. There's a pic url on the last page which includes a couple of the 4Runner. But we basically only followed mud tracks etc but they are a great bunch of guys and it was fun.

http://pub12.ezboard.com/ftoyotasurfdownunderfrm1.showMessage?topicID=166.topic

Maybe on my trip next year I might be able to meet up as I plan on visiting Sydney again.

JD

[Toyo Truck]

For sure!

Next time your over here give me a call.
I'd love to see the conversion in person.
I know a few good tracks over here.

That sounds perfect. Good milage, good power, and that sweet
V8 burble! How much would a HO V8 set me back?
260Kw is pretty impressive. How much did you spend
to get that??

Bart

[ozrunner]

How much would a HO V8 set me back?

Mine was a warranty import from Ford US but any V8 Falcon from the EB basically uses the same engine and your wreckers will have them.

260Kw is pretty impressive. How much did you spend
to get that??

A lot Actually there is a huge amount of performance parts available for these engines and HP is relatively easy to obtain when set up as a complete package etc.

[jr9162]

Thanks to John Douglas http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jonhel5/
I learned that Marks makes an adapter to mate the R150F, and/or R151F (both with 165 mm or 6.5 inch long input shafts) to a G52/54 or W56/W58 bellhousing.

See http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eozrunner ... rR150.html . I am waiting on the Marks part number. This unit should be available in the US via Advance Adapters - Marks agent in North America.

So just take your turbo Supra 7M-GTE block, use a 5M-GE flywheel - clutch assembly - and (W58) bellhousing assembly, this adapter, and mount your trusty R151F to the engine. No more trashed G52/G54 or W56's!

JR

[Toyo Truck]

That's Golden Info mate.

Especially since I picked up my W58 Bellhousing yday!!!!
I'll hook it up initially to my G52 lux box and then when that shits itself,
the R series box will be its replacement. These are pretty strong boxes I've heard.
More than enough for a worked 7M-GE or 7M-GTE

Are your doing the conversion yourself?
Let us know how you go getting the parts, any difficulties you have
cause I will have to do it all again in about 6 months after the G52 dies.

Cheers,
Bart

[jr9162]

That's Golden Info mate.

Especially since I picked up my W58 Bellhousing yday!!!!
I'll hook it up initially to my G52 lux box and then when that shits itself,
the R series box will be its replacement. These are pretty strong boxes I've heard.
More than enough for a worked 7M-GE or 7M-GTE

Are your doing the conversion yourself?
Let us know how you go getting the parts, any difficulties you have
cause I will have to do it all again in about 6 months after the G52 dies.

Cheers,
Bart

I'll be doing it myself. Plan on running a 1986 R151F and 23 spline input gear driven transfer case in my 1985 Hilux Xtra Cab.

Just not decided which powerplant I'll use. Strongest leaning is a 5L diesel - if I can get a front (half) cut imported from Japan or OZ to the states. I've determined via another thread on this forum that there's an OEM Toyota bellhousing that'll allow me to hook the gearbox to a 5L. Waiting on Adrian to reply to my pm on this one.

Another possibility is the 5M-E, 5M-GE, or 6M-GE and this Marks adapter to fit my R151F to a 5M's W58 bellhousing. I will shy away from the 7M's....

Another possibility is the Toyota Century 5V-EU V8 - provided I can work out the bellhousing, clutch assy, flywheel issues to hook my R151F behind it. Waiting on Dellow to reply on this one.

A 4th possibility is the GM HT3.4L 60 degree V6 using a 96-99 Dakota 2.5L bellhousing, and hydraulic throwout bearing assy. Install a 86-91 Jeep AX15 ten spline input shaft and input shaft bearing retainer/cover in the R151F, and use a 93-95 Camaro flywheel and pressure plate.

I know where a complete 5M-E is and where a coupla Cressida 5M-GEs are (sitting on a shelf).

Who knows? Just gathering smarts at the moment. LOL!

JR

[Toyo Truck]

Whats wrong with the 7M-GE? especially when compared to the 5M-GE and the 6M-GE??
I was under the impression that these motors are all very similar. Just different heads, etc?
to give the different displacements.
5M-GE - 2.8L
6M-GE - 2.9L
7M-GE - 3.0L
If this is the case, what is wrong with the old 7M.
It has the most power and torque of all the NA M-series motors.
And I would presume it would have the same strengths/weaknesses as the
5M-GE?? Please explain.

Cheers,
Bart

[dow50r]

Gday
The r151f box is in the 1hz standard van 105 series. (All other motors run the h151f in the 105 series)
Andrew

[jr9162]

The 6M is a 5M with the 7M crank. Actually most 7M cranks have 6M stamped on them. The 5M block is relieved for the larger throw of the stroker crank. The 6M retains the 5M head. The 7M 24V head is prone to cracking and blowing head gaskets. I've heard the 5M exhibits that problem too if the texture of the head and deck surfaces isn't properly machined.

Actually the 6M puts out more power (torque) than the 7M in a stock NA configuration. Both are 3.0L displacement. Remember we're talking about a truck and what's of interest is bottom end torque and a flat torque curve, not mid range to high end horsepower.

I'd prefer the 5M-E for room under the bonnet and not having to lift the body for clearance. The 6M for all around useful power. A 5M-GE is a nice compromise tho....

For power and longevity, one can't beat a fuel injected inline six with seven main bearings. The biggest issue with the Hilux is the length of the engine. Yes, a 7M-GTE will fit - very tightly. And the engine is a beast in a Hilux or 4Runner.

I like the 5M-E's chain driven SOHC. It's probably what the Hilux should have been equipped with all along versus a 22R-E. The 22R-E is a dandy little motor, reminds me of the L and F head Jeep motors. However given the monies spent, most will opt for the higher powered 5M-GE and above every time over a 5M-E. DOHC sixes are better suited to the open road, especially 24V versions. They come on like gangbusters at 2500 plus rpm. I just don't run my truck motors at that speed all day long....

JR

[dow50r]

If anyones interested, there is a 5mge for sale on ebay ATM under Toyota parts.
Andrew

[Toyo Truck]

Oh I see.

But I can't fit a 5-MGE cause my car is an 89' model which was the
first year of the MX83 Cressidas and the MA70 Supras (89 was a great year hey!)
that both used the 7M-GE. Does this mean I have to go with a 7M-GE or can I
fudge it with a 5M-GE??

about the 24V head problems,
What about the 7M-GE with a 6M-GE Head or even the 5M-GE Head?

And surely ANY motor upgrade would go better than the old puss-box 22R
based on these figures I got off the net (I have seen the same figs on about
3/4 other good sites so I hope these are right, any corrections, let me know).
Motor POWER(HP) TORQUE Compression
22R 96@4800 129@2800 9.0:1
22RE 105@4800 137@2800 8.7:1
5M-E 116@4800 145@3600 8.8:1
5M-GE 150@5200 159@4400 8.8:1
7M-GE 203@6000 188@3600 9.2:1
7M-GTE 232@5600 254@3200 8.4:1
as you can see anything from the 22RE up is looking good from here!!!

Let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Bart

[dow50r]

Hi Just had a surf through the ebay yota stuff, and there is a 5 speed /transfer from a SSR 2.4t that looks like a r series box for 700 bux.
The 6mge is a 5mge head with the 7mge crank isnt it??Also, that motor i said was on ebay is actually a 5mge....single cam.
Andrew

[Toyo Truck]

I thought this discussion was a little off topic, so I have opened another thread to discuss the motors and then this thread can stay about the
Supra vs Dyna boxes, cause this topic is interesting by itself.

"Which Toyota Motor to Use???" - Discussion on the various selections
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

Andrew,
700 bux is a sweet price for that!
I wonder what condition though?

[jr9162]

Hi Just had a surf through the ebay yota stuff, and there is a 5 speed /transfer from a SSR 2.4t that looks like a r series box for 700 bux.
The 6mge is a 5mge head with the 7mge crank isnt it??Also, that motor i said was on ebay is actually a 5mge....single cam.
Andrew

The 6M-GE is a stroked 5M-GE. Has the same crank as the 7M-GE but retains the 5M-GE head and bore diameter. The 6M-GE came out before the 7M-GE did, JDM only. The 5M-GE is a DOHC engine. It's predecessor, the 5M-E, is SOHC. Before that was the 4M, and 4M-E.

I thought this discussion was a little off topic, so I have opened another thread to discuss the motors and then this thread can stay about the
Supra vs Dyna boxes, cause this topic is interesting by itself.

"Which Toyota Motor to Use???" - Discussion on the various selections
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... highlight=

Andrew,
700 bux is a sweet price for that!
I wonder what condition though?

No problem.

[slosh]

Gday
The r151f box is in the 1hz standard van 105 series. (All other motors run the h151f in the 105 series)
Andrew

That's good to know- that means a whole lot more motors and t cases that can be adapted!

However, I've long wondered what's the difference between the 'H' (Cruiser) and 'R' series boxes? I thought they were similar because they shared similar numbers- eg h151.

How come the 'H' family of boxes don't seem to be as desirable as the 'R's?

[jr9162]

Thanks to John Douglas http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jonhel5/
I learned that Marks makes an adapter to mate the R150F, and/or R151F (both with 165 mm or 6.5 inch long input shafts) to a G52/54 or W56/W58 bellhousing.

See http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eozrunner ... rR150.html . I am waiting on the Marks part number. This unit should be available in the US via Advance Adapters - Marks agent in North America.

JR

The part number for that adapter plate is MFK 750 cost is $375 (Australian ?) from the Marks factory in Melbourne. It adds 16mm to the length of the drivetrain. I'm waiting on clarification if it requires removal of the input shaft bearing retainer/cover on the R150F/R151F/R452

JR