Rovota

[pendy]

Thought I would come over here and ask some geographically inherant questions. The PBB lacks info and I searched here with better luck.

I am interested in the Toyota six cylinder diesels. For defender conversion. Specifically the HZ-1 and the HD-T and HD-FT.

I see that the H-55 five speed is used on these engines. But I also see conflicting information that says that the H-55 is not used with the turbo engines. So any insight here would help.

My real question is how to put the HD-T to the H-55 to the rover LT230. I understand that I could use the Toyota transfer case but prefer the rover style. Anyone have some clues for me?

Also any chance to put the toyota automatic for these diesels in front of the LT 230?

Thanks
Jim Pendleton

[ISUZUROVER]

Hi Pendy,

This is definitely not a common conversion in Oz as the cruiser diesels and parts are $$$$ and they are also pretty long. I have seen a cruiser 5-speed in a series landie mated to a series T-case (adaptor made by Marks adaptors in melbourne), but it was running a Holden (GM/chev) petrol 6 cylinder. I have never seen any other toyota engines or boxes in rovers, but I have seen a few Nissan diesel engines and Nissan truck boxes and heaps and heaps of Isuzus.

IMHO the Isuzu truck diesel is one of the best options around. Land Rover Australia put the 4BD1 and 4BD1T (4 cyl 3.9L DI diesels from 5 tonne NPR trucks (11k lbs for you Pendy)) in Land Rovers here and it was a great decision. They do 600000 MILES (1000000km) between rebuilds, have heaps of torque, and because they are 4cyl they fit in well (ok they just manage to squeeze in). I have a 1987 110 with a factory 4BD1, LT85 and LT230.

There are also newer NPR engines now with even more power and torque and up to 5.2L - still in a 4cyl. And you can get 5-speed and 6-speed Isuzu boxes. I think John (Bush65) has as Isuzu 4BD1 mated to a later model 6-speed, mated to an LT230.

[ISUZUROVER]

The newer Isuzu engines are:

The 4HF1 (4.3L Na)

http://www.isuzu.co.nz/Engines/4hf1.htm

The 4HE1T (4.8L turbo - several output and intercooler options)

http://www.isuzu.co.nz/Engines/4he1_xs.htm



And the 4HK1T (5.2L turbo)

http://www.isuzu.co.nz/Engines/4hK1_T.htm

They are all pretty easy to tweak too. I'm sure there are plenty of smashed up trucks in the US that you can steal engines and boxes from. And even new the prices aren't too bad. I was quoted about $8500 AUD ($6300US) for a new Gen. Spec. 4HF1.

[stephen]

Saw an example of this conversion last week, Was in a rangie chassis with a series III body on it, had front and rear custom radius arms that met in the middle of the chassis, it had the 1hz turbo with toy gearbox and xfer with custom low range gears. It was camo colours and at KLR in Kingswood, the guys name escapes me but I am sure someone would no this veicle it's pretty unique. The engine was a tight fit but did fit and looked great.

[the_grubb]

And the 4HK1T (5.2L turbo)

Hmmm looks tasty! I have driven some of the NPR (and other Isuzu trucks) with the newer generation engines, are quite powerful and responsve compared to the 4BD1, even some of the ones with smaller capacities.

[Bush65]

I prefer 4 cyl Isuzu over 6 cyl Toyota. NA Toyota don't perform that well. The Toyota diesels have too high a compession ratio for a turbo diesel in my opinion (1HZ 22.4:1) and they are indirect injection.

From memory Isuzu 4BD1-T makes more power and torque than 1HZ and the 4HE1-XS leaves the 1HZ way behind (considerably more torque at idle than 1HZ max at 2200 rpm).

The 4HE1 has a large flywheel housing that might make it difficult to fit in a rover - just going from eyeball not measurements.

I have Isuzu 6 speed behind the 4BD1, but with a 5:1 Atlas, not LT230.

[ISUZUROVER]

I have Isuzu 6 speed behind the 4BD1, but with a 5:1 Atlas, not LT230.

John, do you have the ratios of the ISUZU 6 spd? Apologies if I have asked you this before.

[ISUZUROVER]

Looks like you guys only get the 4HK1-TC there, and miss out on all the other lovely ISUZU engines - but it has better output than the Oz/Nz spec - and 5.2L is 1L bigger than a cruiser diesel (as long as you can squeeze it in).

Engine
-Type Turbo/Intercooled Diesel/4HK1-TC
-Displacement 5.2 L (317 CID)
-Horsepower (Gross) 190 HP @ 2,600 RPM
-Torque (Gross) 387 lbs./ft. @ 1,500 RPM

http://www.isuzucv.com/nseries/nprdieselspecs.html

[justinC]

I'm just fitting a 4BD1 to my Rangie 1992, keeping ZF auto and using 1.003:1 LT230/235/85/16 tyres. The engine came from a 1988 county, and has done a few k's but in excellent condition. The thought of fitting a Vortech VS-1 supercharger has crossed my mind, has anyone tried this in favour of turbocharging?

[cane toad]

Thought I would come over here and ask some geographically inherant questions. The PBB lacks info and I searched here with better luck.

I am interested in the Toyota six cylinder diesels. For defender conversion. Specifically the HZ-1 and the HD-T and HD-FT.

I see that the H-55 five speed is used on these engines. But I also see conflicting information that says that the H-55 is not used with the turbo engines. So any insight here would help.

My real question is how to put the HD-T to the H-55 to the rover LT230. I understand that I could use the Toyota transfer case but prefer the rover style. Anyone have some clues for me?

Also any chance to put the toyota automatic for these diesels in front of the LT 230?

Thanks
Jim Pendleton

Pendy have you concidered the 13b -bt , 14 etc .Way easier to fit .My RRC has a 13b with the lt95 .The 13b has no trouble hauling its fat a$$ . As for the auto/lt230 anything is po$$ible .

[pendy]

Hi Pendy,

This is definitely not a common conversion in Oz as the cruiser diesels and parts are $$$$ and they are also pretty long. I have seen a cruiser 5-speed in a series landie mated to a series T-case (adaptor made by Marks adaptors in melbourne), but it was running a Holden (GM/chev) petrol 6 cylinder. I have never seen any other toyota engines or boxes in rovers, but I have seen a few Nissan diesel engines and Nissan truck boxes and heaps and heaps of Isuzus.

.

I expected to see some good informatiton from you Isuzu. And I knew you would be Isuzu biased as I have followed many posts of yours searching information about this topic. I am not ruling out the Isuzu idea. But I am more interested in a 6 cyl diesel for its smoothness and natural torque features. The turbo Toyota egines I mentioned are direct injection. And the HZ-1 indirect would have to be turbod if considered. There is a good power to weight ration as well. And I know it would be a tight fit but am excited to shoehorn one in.
I have a couple Isuzu 4BDTC engines spied out if I try this route. They look to have eletric injection control. I hope that can be overcome with a mechanical replacement pump. Can they be successfully mated to our ZF hp 22. I though maybe earlier in ther life they were mated at the factory to this engine.
But once again I am interested in finding info about mating the Toyota 6 cyl diesel engine to the Land Rover LT230 with the Toyota auto or manual.

Thanks for the responses
Jim Pendleton

[Bush65]

I have Isuzu 6 speed behind the 4BD1, but with a 5:1 Atlas, not LT230.

John, do you have the ratios of the ISUZU 6 spd? Apologies if I have asked you this before.

Isuzu MBP-6P
1st 6.378:1
2nd 3.627:1
3rd 2.239:1
4th 1.452:1
5th 1.000:1
6th 0.787:1
rev 6.595:1

Mine is a MXA-6R. I dont have published figures. I have approx ratios written down somewhere, but can't put my hand on them now. I do remember that 1st is 5:1, 4th is 1:1, 5th and 6th are overdrive.

As you know, R380 and LT77 are 77mm centres between mainshaft and layshaft, LT85 is 85mm and LT95 is 95mm. The MXA-6R is 100mm, also shafts and bearings are larger than LT95 so strength is not an issue in my opinion.

[ISUZUROVER]

Thanks John, I have saved that info now.

[ISUZUROVER]

I just found a company that makes PTO's for the isuzu gearboxes.

http://technical.transpecs.co.nz/6th_Wh ... zu_PTO.htm

And some other gearbox info... you are right John these look like very strong boxes and have a great range of ratios. How much does your box weigh though?

The MXA and MBP series iron case transmissions have been replaced with the lighter and more modern aluminium cased MYY and MZZ series transmissions, while the NPR Crew and NPR 400 models now feature the six-speed MYY-6P transmission, replacing the previous five speed unit.

And the MYY 5 and 6 speed ratios are here.

http://www.isuzu.com.au/assets_dynamic/SpecSheet_51.pdf

And the MXA 5-speed but not 6-speed are here.

http://www.isuzu.com.au/spec_sheets/N_S ... 0Turbo.pdf

Sorry for the hijack Pendy, back to the toyota stuff now...

[ISUZUROVER]

I have a couple Isuzu 4BDTC engines spied out if I try this route. They look to have eletric injection control. I hope that can be overcome with a mechanical replacement pump. Can they be successfully mated to our ZF hp 22. I though maybe earlier in ther life they were mated at the factory to this engine.
But once again I am interested in finding info about mating the Toyota 6 cyl diesel engine to the Land Rover LT230 with the Toyota auto or manual.

The 4BD1(T) is easy to mate to the V8 spec R380, you just need to fab a custom bellhousing. So the same should be involved in mating it to the ZF. The 4BD1 was only mated to the LT95 and LT85 by Land Rover. All our isuzus have completely machanical pumps so I'm sure you can either do a conversion or swap to a mechanical pump if you go this way.

Sorry I can't help any more on the toyota 6cyl conversion - can you get the 13bt or 14bt in the US?.

[pendy]

Not really interested in the 4cylinder toyotas. Was the ZF rover type transmission used behind the Isuzu engine to your knowledge?

The six speed trans for the Isuzu sounds interesting. No six cylinder Isuzu engines to consider are there?

JP

[TuffRR]

Pendy

The ZF was never factory fitted to the Isuzu to my knowledge as it was only ever used in the Counties (model between series 3 and Defender). These have never had autos. (IIRC - Counties were a RR model in the US?)

I haven't heard of anyone running a zf behind a Isuzu but it sounds like a good combo in theory.

BTW, thats a nice first gear ratio in the MBP-6P!!!

[ISUZUROVER]

Was the ZF rover type transmission used behind the Isuzu engine to your knowledge?

NO - but I'm sure someone has done the conversion themself. The PO of my 110 said he would have had it done if he had known how much an LT85 rebuild would cost him. The factory fitted 4BD1/Gearbox combos were:

SIII Stage 1 - 1982-1984 - 4BD1-LT95
110 County Station Wagon - 1984-1986 - 4BD1-LT95
110 County Station Wagon - 1986-1989 - 4BD1-LT85/LT230
120" Utility (Pick up - special Aust. model) - 1986-1999 4BD1- LT85/LT230
Civilian 6x6 1986-1999 - 4BD1T- LT85/LT230
Military 110 (Perentie) - 1985-1995(ish) - 4BD1-LT95
Military 6x6 (Perentie) - 1985-1995(ish) - 4BD1T-LT95

No six cylinder Isuzu engines to consider are there?

Yep there are plenty - would be interesting to see you fit one in. ISUZU make most of their engines in 4 and 6 cylinder configurations, so a 6BD1 is a 4BD1 with 2 extra cylinders (all parts but the head, block, crank and cam are identical), etc.[/b]

[ISUZUROVER]

The current US trucks come with the 6HK1-TC - 7.8L - with 520lb/ft of torque!!! But looks like you guys get it with a 5 and 6 speed Allison auto, not a manual.

http://www.isuzucv.com/fseries/f_engine.html

http://www.isuzucv.com/fseries/f_specs.pdf

But it is still worth checking out older F-series trucks, which will have the 6BD1T and hopefully the 6-speed manuals.

[the_grubb]

I run a ZF auto behind an Isuzu 4JB1-T (2.8 Td) in a 90. Can't complain one bit about it.

I'd imagine the 4BD1 would be wonderful infront of an auto.

[Loanrangie]

A little ot, but how would a 4bd1 go with a t/flite 3sp auto ?