Which Toyota Motor To Use???

[Toyo Truck]

Hi Guys,

I am looking at upgrading the motor in my hilux real soon.
I am set on keeping it all Toyota, and looking at the old 7M-GE.
I know your saying go the commo, but, I've already got a W58 bellhousing, that will fit a M series motor to the G52 lux-box and transfer. As well as this I have 2 x 7M-GEs to choose from, one rebuilt recently, and all the parts from a doner cressida that is upgrading to a 1JZ-GTE.

I would like to go for the old reliable 5M-GE, but fit one cause my car is an 89' model which was the first year of the MX83 Cressidas and the MA70 Supras (89 was a great year hey!) that both used the 7M-GE.
Does this mean I have to go with a 7M-GE or can I fudge it with an older 5M-GE??

I know that the 7M-GEs have issues with head problems,
But what about the 7M-GE with a 6M-GE Head or even the 5M-GE Head if possible??

Any of the 5M or 7M motors would be better than my 22R surely!!!
based on these figures I got off the net (I have seen the same figs on about 3/4 other good sites so I hope these are right, any corrections, let me know).
Motor POWER(HP) TORQUE Compression
22R 96@4800 129@2800 9.0:1
22RE 105@4800 137@2800 8.7:1
5M-E 116@4800 145@3600 8.8:1
5M-GE 150@5200 159@4400 8.8:1
7M-GE 203@6000 188@3600 9.2:1
7M-GTE 232@5600 254@3200 8.4:1
2JZ-GE 220@5800 210@4000 8.5:1

Tell me what you think, anyone who has experience with any of these motors 4WDing let me know: the probs you had both running and installing, the benefits, and anything else.


Cheers,
Bart

[killalux]

i got a 7mgte in mine, fitting was fairly straight forward, just have to use the 5m engine mount brackets so they line up with your hilux mounts.

i would reccomend using a factory ecu and harness if you can find one, unless you want to spend a lot of time or dollars wiring up and tunning an aftermarket ecu, altough the 7mge wouldnt be as hard to tune because it still has a dizzy.

i havent driven mine yet so cant tell you what its like on road

[Toyo Truck]

7MGTE hey,
that will go very nicely.
Give a few blokes a run for their money at the lights too!
I'm pretty set on the 7M idea myself, but wanna avoid the hassles
with the head gasket if possible, but if I get a parts motor,
and a rebuilt one, I should be right for at least 150,000K.
And if you can fit a 7MGTE turbo with all the extra pipe work,
then I will be able to do the NA version even easier!

I have a bloke whos swapping out a 7MGE with a 1JZGTE into his MX83
cressida, so I can have all the wiring, sensors and ECU from it as I will be helping take it out of the vehicle. But it is auto? does this matter? I will probably get Sixworks to do the wiring for the motor.

I just got the W58 bellhousing, so gearbox wise, now I need presumably a
supra clutch fork, thrust bearing and flyweel? What sort of clutch
did you use for your install?
I'll start hunting around for some 5M-GE mounts too.
What model car do they need to be out of, or am I only using
the top half of the 5M mount and my 22R mount bottom?

Also, what did you do for cooling?? Supra radiator, or aftermarket?
Did you use 12V fans or a mechanical setup?

Sorry for all the questions, but first hand info is invaluable in these
type of things, and I want to do it right.

Cheers,
Bart

[Toyo Truck]

Update from the Supra vs Dyna box topic...
How compatible are the 5M-GE, 6M-GE and the 7M-GE?
Can you use a 7M-GE bottom-end, with a 5M-GE head?
Is this configuration the 6M-GE??

If this is the case...
To get around legalities of an 89' shell,
but avoid the problems associated with the head of the 7M,
plus maintain the torque curve of the single cam head,
this would be the best way to go??

Bart

[slosh]

Hey Bart,
Sounds lke you have all the parts already- and if your 7M is pretty fresh just put it in and worry about the head thing if it ever happens.

So the turbo motors ran same head? Then surely the NA ones would last much longer. Look what happens when you turbo the 2L or 3L diesels- they only last until the head gives in 200 000km ish. So it must be a Toyota thing.

Find out from head reconditioner place what it's worth to fix if it dies- they even may know how to modify for more durability.

You'll have a top truck when it's finished.
Josh.

[suprasurf]

You can't swap 5M and 7M heads around without major work. The cam pulleys have different tooth counts so you would need to fit the crank pully from a 7M onto the 5M crank... guess what.. they dont fit :(

The 7M is pretty common on Oz so go with that. Mine has quite alot more pull than the old 5M ever had. They are easy to wire up and get going.

I'm still running the G52 box without too many issues.

[SASS]

Sorry for hijacking the thread but im realy keen to do this swap aswell (89 Dual Cab 22R manual) only thing is i was looking at going auto! anyone know if it is posible?

Post some pics as you go toyo truck keen to see how u get on!

Cheers SASS

[toysuzi]

hello all

hey toyo truck

let me know what you doing with you 22r bits when your finished your project

is you beast an 89 model ??

cheers

daryl

[Toyo Truck]

SASS
7M-GE hi-lux...it sounds tempting hey.
3.0L 200HP without any work. And all toyota!
I had a 7M-GE for 3 years in a cressida and it was fine. Drove about 150kms a day for work in it.
With the auto conversion, I looked at this, but it is alot tricker.
With the Manual, I can bolt my G52 box straight up to the 7MGE if you get the right stock toyota bellhousing (W58).
With the auto on the 7M I think it is the A340 or something, which
I don't think would bolt to any transfer cases.
The R151 auto gbox out of the 4-Runners is a goer for this, but
then you've got a chain driven transfer. See my other topic
"Supra vs Dyna boxes" cause I was asking the same questions you are.

Daryl,
yeah mine is a 89 model single-cab, 22R 5-speed manual.
I'll be keen to sell it as I will need some fundage for the conversion.
Its a good motor, I just want EFI and some more power for highways.
It runs well and has just had the timing chain and guides done 3 months
ago, and the carby rebuilt just before rego, and I do the oils every 5000-6000Kms religiously so she keeps on keeping on. I have a log book of
all servicing. has about 380K on the clock, but was rebuilt about 120K ago. All stock except for extractors and a 2.25" exhaust. PM me if you
want more details or whatever.

Cheers,
Bart

[killalux]

7MGTE hey,
that will go very nicely.
Give a few blokes a run for their money at the lights too!
I'm pretty set on the 7M idea myself, but wanna avoid the hassles
with the head gasket if possible, but if I get a parts motor,
and a rebuilt one, I should be right for at least 150,000K.
And if you can fit a 7MGTE turbo with all the extra pipe work,
then I will be able to do the NA version even easier!

I have a bloke whos swapping out a 7MGE with a 1JZGTE into his MX83
cressida, so I can have all the wiring, sensors and ECU from it as I will be helping take it out of the vehicle. But it is auto? does this matter? I will probably get Sixworks to do the wiring for the motor.

I just got the W58 bellhousing, so gearbox wise, now I need presumably a
supra clutch fork, thrust bearing and flyweel? What sort of clutch
did you use for your install?
I'll start hunting around for some 5M-GE mounts too.
What model car do they need to be out of, or am I only using
the top half of the 5M mount and my 22R mount bottom?

Also, what did you do for cooling?? Supra radiator, or aftermarket?
Did you use 12V fans or a mechanical setup?

Sorry for all the questions, but first hand info is invaluable in these
type of things, and I want to do it right.

Cheers,
Bart

you will need a flywheel off a 5m or 7m, i used the hilux clutch fork and throw out bearing, but u will need to lengthen the clutch slave cylinder rod. i used a heavy duty 7m clutch kit.
u only need the top half of the 5m mount( only the metal bracket that bolts to block) and u will need to twist the oil filter around a bit the clear the mount.

for cooling i used the standard diesel hilux radiator with the outlets modified, and use two 11" thermo fans in front of radiator.

[suprasurf]

SASS
7M-GE hi-lux...it sounds tempting hey.
3.0L 200HP without any work. And all toyota!
I had a 7M-GE for 3 years in a cressida and it was fine. Drove about 150kms a day for work in it.
With the auto conversion, I looked at this, but it is alot tricker.
With the Manual, I can bolt my G52 box straight up to the 7MGE if you get the right stock toyota bellhousing (W58).
With the auto on the 7M I think it is the A340 or something, which
I don't think would bolt to any transfer cases.
The R151 auto gbox out of the 4-Runners is a goer for this, but
then you've got a chain driven transfer. See my other topic
"Supra vs Dyna boxes" cause I was asking the same questions you are.

Cheers,
Bart

You can bolt the A340 auto from a Surf / Bundy straight up to the 7M using the the M series auto bellhousing. You may run into issues with the gear change but the two 5M's we have done we hard wired the gear change thru switches on the dash. You maybe lucky with the 7M as it uses an A340 so the wiring may be toooo easy

[suprasurf]

you will need a flywheel off a 5m or 7m, i used the hilux clutch fork and throw out bearing, but u will need to lengthen the clutch slave cylinder rod. i used a heavy duty 7m clutch kit.
u only need the top half of the 5m mount( only the metal bracket that bolts to block) and u will need to twist the oil filter around a bit the clear the mount.

for cooling i used the standard diesel hilux radiator with the outlets modified, and use two 11" thermo fans in front of radiator.

OK........... I'll let a secret out of the bag. This is a big one so don't tell anyone

You can use a 3Y / 4Y flywheel on a 5M / 7M.. yep you read it right !!!
The clutch is perfect , the ring gear is perfect, the spigot is spot on !

BUT

Only 5 of the 6 holes line up for the bolts. The M series has a balanced flywheel and crank but the Y series didn't. If you carefully mod 1 hole the flywheel will fit. The rear of the Y series is fatter than the M series and may just skim the sump, so you may want to get a little metal machined off or use the spacer that comes off the auto flex plate between the flywheel and crank and bingo !

The Y flywheel is also a bit heavier so you get some more low down torque. Theres one here that we used the Y flywheel on + we also joined two bellhousing together to booty fab a W58 and its being going fine...

[Skip]

Toyo Truck:
Stop worrying about the head problems associated with the 7m. The problem is easily fixed with a HKS metal head gasket and ARP bolts. Do a forum search at www.toymods.org.au and you will find all the info you need.

[SASS]

Anyone done the A340 onto 7mge before?
Are there 2 different varients of the auto one for 2wd and one that can take a transfer? If i was to buy a 7mge cressida auto (are they all A340) and the auto and transfer from a surf then technically the Cressida cumputer should plug straight into the surf auto and shift it correctly?
Are the A340 a 3 or 4 speed auto? Gear or Chain transfer on the back of the surf box? would the auto bolt up to the crossmember of a manual?
Im just thinking that i could bolt all this together (motor box transfer) and just swing it all in in one hit (Providing gear box lines up and using the 5mge engine mounts) What do you all think? do able?
Once again toyo truck sorry for hilacking the thread!!!!!!!!!
Cheers SASS

[SASS]

Suprasurf???

[killalux]

i have finally got my engine tunned and running sweet, with everything still standard running 7psi boost i am putting out 212.9HP at the wheels running 32" tyres, and it is a very nice motor to drive. the power curve is very smooth, near a straight line going up, and peak torque is 800ft pl at 2800rpm, and stays at that right through to 6500rpm.

[pulux]

peak torque is 800ft pl at 2800rpm

[killalux]

anyone know if the surf auto with chain t-case could be adapted to the gear t-case, i know that there is adapters out there for v6runner manuals that use the chain t-case, would it be possible to use the same adapter?

[suprasurf]

Anyone done the A340 onto 7mge before?
Are there 2 different varients of the auto one for 2wd and one that can take a transfer? If i was to buy a 7mge cressida auto (are they all A340) and the auto and transfer from a surf then technically the Cressida cumputer should plug straight into the surf auto and shift it correctly?
Are the A340 a 3 or 4 speed auto? Gear or Chain transfer on the back of the surf box? would the auto bolt up to the crossmember of a manual?
Im just thinking that i could bolt all this together (motor box transfer) and just swing it all in in one hit (Providing gear box lines up and using the 5mge engine mounts) What do you all think? do able?
Once again toyo truck sorry for hilacking the thread!!!!!!!!!
Cheers SASS

I haven't seen it done but you should be Guinea Pig and find out for the rest of us

I can't see any reason why it won't happen.

[suprasurf]

anyone know if the surf auto with chain t-case could be adapted to the gear t-case, i know that there is adapters out there for v6runner manuals that use the chain t-case, would it be possible to use the same adapter?

Direct from Marlin:

Tacoma/4Runner (95.5+) 5 Spd Trans/Automatic to Gear Driven Reduction Housing (79-95) Adapter
W59/R150F/A340 to R1FA

[Webbie]

I am looking at doing a conversion for a mate but we can't seem to find any cheap 5mge so I think we will go with just a 5me The Q i have is that what parts will we need to get the 5me to fit up to his hilux box.
He has a 85 mod solid axle 4runner with the 2 lt 3y i think ,so what I thought was because the 5me have all got auto's behind them we would need to chase up a supra belhousing and thats all ,as we will be sourcing the motor from a CROWN so we will get the loom and ecu out of it.
Is there any more hickups we are likly to encounter.CHEERS