CARPUTER

Post by **Slammin Sammy** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:52 am

G'day, noobie to this site.

I'm thinking of putting a pc into the HZJ78 Troopie, for GPS nav, MP3s, DVD, vidcam, e-mail and web. You can get the components, including touchscreen monitors, mini-ITX mobos and cases for under $1,000 if you shop around.

Wondering if anyone's done this yet around here?
:?:

Post by **bigsteve** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:56 am

I'd use a lappy that flips to a tablet PC, we've got a few LG's at work that are working nice.

Post by **1MadEngineer** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:34 pm

a mate of mine has 2 units arriving 3rd week in january from canada, he is putting them in his 34 ford HotRod using 2 touchscreens (1 is a slave and a spare t/s). will let you know how they go.

Post by **1MadEngineer** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:35 pm

a mate of mine has 2 units arriving 3rd week in january from canada, he is putting them in his 34 ford HotRod using 2 touchscreens (1 is a slave and a spare t/s). will let you know how they go.

Post by **V8 Middy** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:03 pm

Mine's in ptototype form on my desk. Mini itx 1ghz processor, 512ram and 7in Lilliput touch screen

Still trying to get the gps mouse to configure, then the tv card for FM reception.

Looking for a GUI to organise it all and hopefully it'll be in after Xmas

The landcruiser had a double DIN slot so it'll all fit there except the DVD drive and the keyboard.

I'll let you know how it goes once its in (and if it still works after a few speed bumps!!)

Post by **Slammin Sammy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:38 am

V8 Middy wrote:Mine's in ptototype form on my desk. Mini itx 1ghz processor, 512ram and 7in Lilliput touch screen

It's early days, but that's what I had in mind... maybe an EPIA MII12000, for the CF and PC Card slots.

V8 Middy wrote:Looking for a GUI to organise it all and hopefully it'll be in after Xmas

The landcruiser had a double DIN slot so it'll all fit there except the DVD drive and the keyboard.

I'm thinking of mounting the whole shebang in my overhead console, including the screen as drop-down. I might not even bother with a case... just make up my own mounting (there's heaps of room in the console, even with 2 x 2-ways and the map lights). I can cut a separate slot for the DVD/CDROM.

I've been lurking the o'seas sites (mp3car.com is a good one), and some say the 2.5" (laptop) HDDs are the way to go, mounted vertically to reduce chance of headcrash.

The touchscreen GUIs available, and ways to minimise MS-Windows boot-up times, are also very topical.

Sounds like there's plenty of interest here. It may even warrant it's own forum!

Post by **pcman** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:36 am

hmm this is my lil toy thats normally in my cortina

its currently out awaiting car rebuild and pc rebuild to make it faster
its currently a
amdk6 500
12.1"lcd
128 meg ram
40gig hdd
dvd drive
wireless network
wireless keyboard and gyrostick mouse for control(like the old thumstick mouse on laptops)

im using a home made dc-dc psu for it so theres no inverter works a treat sound runs through a eq and splits it into 5 chans and then goes straight to the amps

ive thought about making one for my fj40 with a gps and have it built into a breife case and a small 4" screen that i can clip to the dash to use and pack away in the case when i leave the car

Post by **mud13s** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:45 am

A mates Rangey has got an industrial computer in the boot with an LCD mounted on the dash

There's a mini-keyboard on a mount from the passenger side of the transmission tunnel, and a trackball to the right of the steering wheel.

Nice setup but over the top as he's only running Ozi-Explorer!

I can't remember the exact amount but it didn't cost a lot, them again depends what you call a lot

Paul

Post by **bogged** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:46 am

Wheres GUJonno, his mate is doing this shiot at the moment

Post by **barbz** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:16 pm

To avoid issues with the hard drives getting destroyed with bumps etc you can either use rubber grommets for mounting the drive in the case or use a IDE to compact flash adapter (http://www.pcengines.ch/cflash.htm) for running the main drive, this will allow you to use solid state memory so no issues with bumps etc. Im not sure how big compact flash cards are but its possible to use a normal hard drive mounted in an removable rack for data which can be lost if need be, then its a case of adding a similar rack in your main computer then its easy enough to update the data etc.

Paul

Post by **RaginRover** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:45 pm

barbz wrote:To avoid issues with the hard drives getting destroyed with bumps etc you can either use rubber grommets for mounting the drive in the case or use a IDE to compact flash adapter (http://www.pcengines.ch/cflash.htm) for running the main drive, this will allow you to use solid state memory so no issues with bumps etc. Im not sure how big compact flash cards are but its possible to use a normal hard drive mounted in an removable rack for data which can be lost if need be, then its a case of adding a similar rack in your main computer then its easy enough to update the data etc.

Paul

Had a hard disk mounted in my rangie for two years - no probs, have one mounted a huge diesel 4x4 for just as long if not longer - hard disks have had no problems at all. They are harder on mainboards than hard disks, get the smallest mainboard possible.

Laptop hard disks are the best to use if you are paranoid, the are more than up for the task. 3.5" desktop hard disk are fine IMO and I would advise attaching them directly to the body of the car or something directly attached to it, from an engineering perspective the hard disk then not be rattled any more than the body of the car which isn't much really if you think about it

Tom

Post by **Slammin Sammy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:53 pm

Had a hard disk mounted in my rangie for two years - no probs, have one mounted a huge diesel 4x4 for just as long if not longer - hard disks have had no problems at all. They are harder on mainboards than hard disks, get the smallest mainboard possible.

<snip>

Tom

Although I'm inclined to agree with Tom, I haven't tried it yet. When you read the shock ratings of these drives, you'd think the vehicle would fall apart before the HDD! But drives are funny, and I think alot of head crashes happen because the drive mechanism (armature, motor, servos, etc.) just get "tired"...

I imagine the Troopie will be a little harder on the delicate little instrument than a Rangie, so I think I'll shock-mount it all the same! :lol:

Post by **pcman** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:00 pm

my pc was running about a year with a older 4 gig hdd for testing before i put the 40 gig in it its mounted solidly to a sheet of perspex behind the lcd along with the motherboard and everything else never had a bad sector till i makaged to drop the entire thing one day
and this is ain a lowered te cortina i feel less bumps in my fj40 than this lol

Post by **V8 Middy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:05 pm

playing with mine at the moment, got an itrek GPS mouse but can't get the prolific usb to serial driver to work so no GPS

Any suggestions?

Also, been reccommended www.mediaengine.org as the best GUI. Only GPS software I have to play with ATM is Copilot. Hoping it will work. Destinator is awesome.... can't "find" a copy though!!! any suggestions?

Post by **pcman** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:09 pm

V8 Middy wrote: Destinator is awesome.... can't "find" a copy though!!! any suggestions?

pm me and ill hook you up

Post by **RaginRover** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:27 pm

Slammin Sammy wrote:I imagine the Troopie will be a little harder on the delicate little instrument than a Rangie, so I think I'll shock-mount it all the same!

you would think there would be a little difference

Suck it and see - hard disks are cheap !

Tom

Post by **V8 Middy** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:02 pm

OK, ignore my crap about the driver for the usb mouse, it hadn't occurred to me that the guy from ebay would have sent faulty merchandise... now to get it replaced!!! Wish me luck

Post by **GUJohnno** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:48 am

bogged wrote:Wheres GUJonno, his mate is doing this shiot at the moment

Yeah he's doing very similar to what these guys are talking about.
We tested it in a club competition running moving maps and it worked a treat. Found every point marked untill we got stuck and had to winch for the nesxt ten hours.....

Post by **alfantz** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:15 pm

Ok GUJohnno has persuased me to join. I am the one he has mentioned in previous posts. Laptop hard drives (2.5") are more durable, take less power to run and of course take up less space. The VIA motherboards are definately the way to go for size and power consuption. I bought one of the 8" touchscreens from ebay and have custom mounted the PC components in the glovebox (Prado) I have also hooked the sound up to an FM transmitter directly connected to the arial. The wireless one are crap. I also run a USB GPS and have a slim DVD installed. The slim DVD is also because of lower power consumption. at the moment I am running WinXP Pro but it is more resource hungry than others which can make the DVD sound skip a little bit. This was alot worse with two other DVD programs I was using but I installed WinDVD and it is almost non existant now. I have also installed the Medio Software but it is only a shell not an OS, so you still need an OS to boot it. I would rather not go back to 98 so I was thinking of trying to find a flavour of linux that would meet my requirements. The only apps I run are oziexplorer, win dvd and medio. The touch screen is good for selecting mp3s in medio and controlling DVD playback but almost useless for any other apps.

The main problems I have encountered are minimising power consumption and suitable enclosures. You can get DINN size enclosures overseas but they dont have a local distributer and it is too costly to import them. If you buy a mini ITX case for around $130 you get the 12v DC power supply and the case to cannablise to suit your needs. The power supplies alone are around $100.

I hope this helps and I am sure this will be the first of many posts.

Anthony

Post by **V8 Middy** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:24 pm

I'm planning to mount the lot in a frame behind the double DIN slot with the 7in touch over the front. The keyboard and dvd rom can go in the glove box.

As for power, it'll draw up to 5A with dvd and hard disk spinning but average 3A for normal use.

Post by **berazafi** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:53 pm

I have a off the shelf second hand comaq 400mz pentium II it cost me 22 dollars second hand at a swap meet, the guy had twenty of them, it has been there for over 3 months with no problems, its just wedged under the seat, it runs a liliput touch screen mounted on the dash (the monting system that comes with these monitors is poor but it works for a while, and i have a ps2 mouse gps reciver sitting on the dash, it has the option of external antena, so i will be mounting it away and just running a external in the future.

Its all pretty half ass installed and i havnt had any problems, I will be all installed properly in the near future as i wanted to get a feel of were everything would work best, eg monitor positon, if i needed a mouse or keyboard etc etc

The only problem i have had is the little gps reciver suction cap coming off the windscreen on hill climbs and landing smack up agains the talgate _LWB, and its still going strong

The whole system including inverter (which you can use for other things was less than $750 - a heap cheaper than any color gps, plus you can have live mapping, unlimited music, movies, games etc etc

PS Anthony, in regards to using linux- I have been using linux for years now as a desktop system and a server. i dont think it would be well suited to car use as it doesnt like to be stoped and started (well it just takes ages), its good for stability-like running 365 days of the year, i dont ever remember seeing a suspend to harddisk style feature-even though im sure there is probably somthing avalible, if you end up geting linux to work reasonanbly with gps and the rest all going let me know as i would be interested in possibly doing i 2

Post by **RaginRover** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:21 pm

alfantz and berazafi thanks for your input,

I have been shopping for a touchscreen for a while now which is the main reason the system is not in my new rangie, can I have some info about the screens you use and how much they were

I can see 7" versions on ebay etc for around the 289 mark and 8" for 329 if you use those what resolution/colour support do they have ?

Thanks
Tom

Post by **alfantz** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:55 pm

I originally ran a pentium 4 on an inverter but i found the inverter wasn't getting enough power and the pc dropped out. Another guy I know has similar problems running his PII laptop through an inverter but has a hand throttle to increase the revs. Thats when I decided to stick to 12 v DC. Why convert from 12v DC to 240 AC then back to 12v DC?

This is also why lower spec PCs work best. Less power drain. The GPS I use has a magnet on it which mounts on the roof. I have noticed that the red light stays on when the PC is off so I disconnect from the power when not in use. I also run my PC from the second battery to eliminate the pc turning off with the ignition and losing any information from tracks that havn't been saved. I use a wireless keyboard with a joystick type controller on it for a mouse. This is attached to the passenger sun visor.

Tom, the LCD you are looking at is the same as I got. I run the resolution at 800 x 600 as any higher and it is hard to read. I have been very happy with the monitor performance. I would probably prefer a dash mounted one that is out of sight when not in use and the touchscreen not entirely necessary.

Post by **GUJohnno** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:58 pm

You can find the screens that we use at http://stores.ebay.com/Extreme-Audio-El ... ayZ2QQtZkm
I plan to get the in dash model in the near future.

Post by **V8 Middy** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:20 pm

The screen I have is a Lilliput 7in touch screen. Its wide screen format but i only run it at 640 x 480. Easier to hit bigger icons. Once you set the bios to default to 640 x 480 (using a standard monitor) it just plugs in and works. The touch kit is USB, pre installed in the screen and auto configures. 5 second calibration and you're away. It cost approx $345 + postage so total of $400.

There is a much cheaper one but I doubt you could read it.

The same screen is available to mount in a DIN slot, pull out style but not sure on price

Post by **berazafi** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:39 am

for navigation work a pentium II is all you need, it wont be as power hungrey as anything bigger, i left my pc on all night without the car running and it nearly started in the morning.....

Laptops use more power i find, as they are trying to charge the battery and you get loses converting from dc to ac back to dc back to higher voltage dc...

also forget running a cd more power hungrey (unless you realy want dvd), just by a memory stick for transfering data in and out of the car

Post by **Slammin Sammy** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:33 pm

alfantz wrote:<snip>
I also run my PC from the second battery to eliminate the pc turning off with the ignition and losing any information from tracks that havn't been saved. I use a wireless keyboard with a joystick type controller on it for a mouse. This is attached to the passenger sun visor.

Tom, the LCD you are looking at is the same as I got. I run the resolution at 800 x 600 as any higher and it is hard to read. I have been very happy with the monitor performance. I would probably prefer a dash mounted one that is out of sight when not in use and the touchscreen not entirely necessary.

I'll be running mine off the 2nd batt for similar reasons.

Alfantz, can you confirm if you're using the Lilliput? 7" or 8"? And which keyboard are you using? I was thinking of using one of those rubberised roll-up ones, which would be impervious to dust. I would mount it under the driver's visor.

I was hoping that the touch screen would be useful for more than just driving the shell. I'd like to be able to control OziExplorer with it for a start (drag maps, etc.). I was hoping I could use it in placed of a mouse or other pointing device. Am I deluding myself?

If you can't make good use of the touchscreen system, aren't you better off with a non-touchscreen monitor? They're much brighter, and heaps cheaper!

Post by **GUJohnno** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:19 pm

The problem was that the icons on OziExplorer were way too small to use the touch screen. When we did the navrun we used a track ball mouse which worked well on the move.
I'm pretty sure it was an 8" screen.

Post by **alfantz** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:44 pm

I am using the liliput 8" touchscreen. I bought the touchscreen bcause I thought it would be easier to resell at a later stage. The keyboard is the one on this site http://www.parex.com.tw/product_wireless_keyboard_ir9703.htm .
I bought it on ebay s/hand for $30. Even with a touchscreen you still need a pointing device. It is easy to drag the maps with the touchscreen but really how often do you need to drag the map that you couldn't do it with a mouse.

Post by **pcman** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:51 pm

that is the exact keyboard im using tho i also have the mouse remote that works with it

http://www.parex.com.tw/product_wireles ... IR9708.htm

i mainly use the mouse and have a macro program that allows me to program most of the buttons on it

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