Commo V6 engines

Post by **Scott** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:47 am

Does anyone know if pre ecotech v6 engines are interchangeable?

I currently have a series 1 VN engine in my Hilux that has expired. I want to know if I can put in later model series 2 (VP or maybe VR???) v6 using my current computer and wiring setup, or do things need to change.

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:09 am

Hey champ I am doing this conversion myself at the moment! From what I found with it is that the VN and VP share the same wiring and have a different memcal for the manual and autos! This is what I had to know cause I am retaining the factory Toyota g/box!
The VR I think had a complete different wiring again to these and they were even different between the manual and autos.
Try http://www.marks4wd.com/ they have some info about the different motors and what requirements that maybe need!

I hope that helps a little, but I am NO expert!!!
Cheers

Post by **holeyhardtop** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:49 pm

the link below to 'streetcommodores' should be able to provide some of the info if you do a search.

the series 1 v6 has the thermostat at the rear of the motor and it was changed to the front for series 2 onward so you would have to adjust your radiator hoses{no big deal}to suit. also the iginition module and coil packs from the series2 are individual replaceable units not the dodgy one piece on the series1 and are easily upgraded onto a series1 motor. the wiring you have will plug directly into the series2 ignition module but you will need series2 spark plug leads{series1 too short}.

i think the series 2 motor up to and including the vr engine will be interchangeable just use the computer setup you currently have. from memory the series1 had the same flywheel for manual and auto but from series2 on it was different for each.

a search will confirm or correct what i've said so far.
good luck.
dave.
http://www.streetcommodores.com.au/forum_3/
[url][/url]

Post by **Dozoor** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:55 pm

Just a note on the computer , Ive had a some variation on opinions
But seems you want to keep the early one if possible , The later require
input from a body module or a bypass or somthing , so you may find more dramas in wiring if you swap it out with the motor,

This is only what ive been told ,

Post by **gqswb** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:21 pm

Hey Scott I'v got a 1993 VP V6 for sale. Rebuilt by C.O.M.E / Gen-Tech. Head ported, new crank, pistions, cam, harmonic balancer etc.... Tuned on the engine dyno by C.O.M.E if my eeprom fits your ECU. In two rebuilts this motor has cost me $13,854 dollars. It has never been started since its second rebuild. I will be strait out and say I wouldn't take any less that $5500 for it. If you or anyone else wanted it other was I will just put it back in my Commodore and flog it off that way. Also have rebuit auto with 2500rpm stalll converter for sale. I'm in Canberra.

Post by **ratboy** » Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:31 pm

i think u will find that s1 have different crank from auto to man
s2 u can swap them from auto to man so s2 crank is the same for auto and man i think wireing if it is mark 4x4 is the same s1 to s2
it should not be to hard ring marks 4x4 tell them what u r going to do thay will help :?:

Post by **Scott** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:20 pm

Thanks for the info,

I've got the S1 motor out now so I just need to find someone open so I can get an exchange motor. Sorry gqswb, but I'm not after anything fancy, just a standard motor.

One more issue. I'm using a manual gearbox. Will my S1 flywheel fit onto a S2 motor, or do I need a S2 flywheel? If my S1 flywheel works, can I put it on a motor setup for an auto, or is there more to it than just adding a flywheel?

Also, will my S1 starter motor work with the S2 motor?

Thanks,
Scott

Post by **ratboy** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:11 pm

your s1 man starter will fit on s2
if its a s2 auto starter i dont ???
if its in a hilux running hilux 5 speed it should be man starter so will fit s2 motor
as for flywheel i think thay are not the same ?????

Post by **RUFF** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:35 pm

Flywheel from a S1 motor wont fit if its a custom Flywheel to suit an Auto motor. Manual Flywheels for Commodore V6s are no longer available new from Holden. Unless they have had another production run as a mate of mine bought the last one available about 2 years ago.

I beleive Dellow,Marks and the Rod Shop all make custom ones now.

Post by **Vsicks Pathy** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:18 am

All of the donks are different in the rear. You can get all model fly wheels from holden. They are not cheap though. $400 to $450 if memory serves me correctly. If your donk is a series 1 then you will have to replace it with the same year/series or change your adaptor to suit. Try Rod Hadfield for your fly wheel. He should have one to suit and you may save a couple of hundred dollars.
Cheers,
Hope this helps.

Post by **Hybrid** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 4:02 pm

I dont remember anything being said about the adapter being different. I thought the only drama with the s1 was that the crank from auto to manual were different and also that the s1s try to vibrate themsleves apart. Is this a marks adapter? Either way I have a machined and balanced s2 flywheel and pressure plate setup for sale if you want it. It was machined by John White Racing when I was gonna keep the 5 speed. Its never been on the engine.

Be interesting to hear if you notice any difference between the s1 and s2 when driving.

Cheers

John

Post by **Vsicks Pathy** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:05 pm

Hybrid wrote:I dont remember anything being said about the adapter being different. I thought the only drama with the s1 was that the crank from auto to manual were different and also that the s1s try to vibrate themsleves apart. Is this a marks adapter? Either way I have a machined and balanced s2 flywheel and pressure plate setup for sale if you want it. It was machined by John White Racing when I was gonna keep the 5 speed. Its never been on the engine.

Be interesting to hear if you notice any difference between the s1 and s2 when driving.

Cheers

John

Sorry, I was not a clear as I could have been. The cranks are all different on each donk. Up to 15mm, or there abouts, in legnth (out of the back).

Hence,the fly wheels are also different (offsets). These things need to be considered when thinking about fitment, it stands to reason that you would need different bellhousings/adaptors to compensate for the differences of each model.

All auto and manual fly wheels are different. That applies to all makes and models too.

As for the early donk trying to shake itself apart, I don't know. If it were true, I suppose we would be seeing a hell of alot of VN's on the side of the road. That said, the V6 is never truely balanced.

I have a VR S11 donk. I am running a VN wiring loom (manual).
Reason: I kept the car manual and VR's didn't come in a manual.
I had to rewire the loom for the temp sender and sensor (no big deal) and there is no provision for the crank angle sensor (not needed anyway).

Post by **bazzle** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:51 pm

From memory the later motor gives less Rad clearnace. (Serp belts??)
Check how you are going to cool it.

Bazzle

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:04 pm

Vsicks Pathy wrote:I have a VR S11 donk. I am running a VN wiring loom (manual).
Reason: I kept the car manual and VR's didn't come in a manual.

mmmmmmmmmm my VR is Manual! So I guess that they did make Manuals in them!

Post by **Vsicks Pathy** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 8:35 am

I.M.P.O.S.E wrote:
Vsicks Pathy wrote:I have a VR S11 donk. I am running a VN wiring loom (manual).
Reason: I kept the car manual and VR's didn't come in a manual.

mmmmmmmmmm my VR is Manual! So I guess that they did make Manuals in them!

Perhaps I was miss informed or miss interperated what was said to me. Is yours a series 2? I thought it was strange that there was no manuals too. But I have to admit, I have never seen one. Perhaps that is what the guy was telling me. Use a VN 'cause the others are so so rare?

Either way, the VN loom is fine to use on the later model engines when the ECU is VN (manual or auto).

Post by **Evan** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:16 am

VR's did come in manual, we had a v6 manual wagon, i was told there was only 2 or 3 in the north coast area NSW (holden needed to test something on ours because somebody elses was having elec issues.
I seem to remember it being much nicer to drive than the autos as well.
E

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 3:39 pm

Evan wrote:VR's did come in manual, we had a v6 manual wagon, i was told there was only 2 or 3 in the north coast area NSW (holden needed to test something on ours because somebody elses was having elec issues.
I seem to remember it being much nicer to drive than the autos as well.
E

Yeah Vsicks Pathy mine is a series 1 but had mates with series 2 in a manual! It (and theirs) were very hard to find! When I looked I looked for months cause I had to have the manual, ended up with a white one(which was the only colour I DIDNT WANT- the things you sacrafice aye!)
They same something along the lines of 2% are manual!
Evan I agree with that about being nice to drive! Also makes it fun to drive! :cool:

They are about on par with VN and VP SS (autos) as far as performance! Thats why I went to the EXPENSE ofkeeping my truck manual!

Post by **Vsicks Pathy** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 7:07 pm

I.M.P.O.S.E wrote:
Evan wrote:VR's did come in manual, we had a v6 manual wagon, i was told there was only 2 or 3 in the north coast area NSW (holden needed to test something on ours because somebody elses was having elec issues.
I seem to remember it being much nicer to drive than the autos as well.
E

Yeah Vsicks Pathy mine is a series 1 but had mates with series 2 in a manual! It (and theirs) were very hard to find! When I looked I looked for months cause I had to have the manual, ended up with a white one(which was the only colour I DIDNT WANT- the things you sacrafice aye!)
They same something along the lines of 2% are manual!
Evan I agree with that about being nice to drive! Also makes it fun to drive! They are about on par with VN and VP SS (autos) as far as performance! Thats why I went to the EXPENSE ofkeeping my truck manual!

Yeah, you can't beat a manual. I kept my (Nissan) 5 sped behind the V6.
Do you think that the later manual Commodores were cars that were made to order perhaps?

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:01 pm

Yeah, but even the VN's are rare in manuals!

Holden sold commodores as autos cause that is what most people want (city dwellers) so thats how they produced them and it was like a $2000 option that you got hit with. Now when you say its a manual (like talking to yards for possible trade) they ad an extra grand. Little justice to resale thou. So id say that you had to wait for the manual so yeah.

Post by **Vsicks Pathy** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:59 am

AH! Just remembered. The manual ECU is the cheapest way to get around the Holden security feature at around $60 to $100 (I paid $60 for mine). Otherwise you will be paying about $400 for a new memcal if you use an aouto ECU.

Post by **Bartso** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:26 am

i know this is all about V6 but i have a VN V8 in my patrol using the nissan auto the guy that i bought it off said i can get a chip from a VR V8 and it will give me that extra power straight
firstly is this true and secondly will it mater which chip i get as in auto or manual chip

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:24 am

Bartso wrote:i know this is all about V6 but i have a VN V8 in my patrol using the nissan auto the guy that i bought it off said i can get a chip from a VR V8 and it will give me that extra power straight
firstly is this true and secondly will it mater which chip i get as in auto or manual chip

Im not to sure with them. Maybe try someone like Lachlan Riddel at Chiptorque on the Gold Coast who have lots of experience with these things!

Post by **Scott** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:29 pm

I now have a flywheel thanks to Hybrid, so time for the next question.

The dude in the clutch shop tells me the spigot bush should be the same in S1 & S2 engines. The spigot bush I pulled out of my S1 doesn't come close to fitting in the end of the crankshaft of the S2.

Does anyone know if the spigot bush is the same, or does the guy in the clutch shop have no idea? All the gear used in the conversion was from Marks, and speaking to them his morning, they tell me it uses a standard commo spigot bush, so there shouldn't be a problem there.

If it is the same, then I'm confused. The only option I can see is that there is an insert in the end of the S2 crankshaft that is supposed to come out to fit the spigot bush. Is this the case? If so, how do you get it out? It fits in there pretty tightly and there is nothing to grab onto.

Thanks,
Scott

Post by **J Top** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:18 pm

Some auto's have a spigot bush in the back of the crank as well, not sure about Commodores.
Can you run a large thread tap into it, when the tap bottoms it should push the busk out.
Second choice, less successful if it is only a thin wall bush, is to fill the cavity with grease and drive a tight fitting drift in the hole to "hydralic" the bush out.
J Top

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:59 pm

Scott wrote:I now have a flywheel thanks to Hybrid, so time for the next question.

The dude in the clutch shop tells me the spigot bush should be the same in S1 & S2 engines. The spigot bush I pulled out of my S1 doesn't come close to fitting in the end of the crankshaft of the S2.

Does anyone know if the spigot bush is the same, or does the guy in the clutch shop have no idea? All the gear used in the conversion was from Marks, and speaking to them his morning, they tell me it uses a standard commo spigot bush, so there shouldn't be a problem there.

If it is the same, then I'm confused. The only option I can see is that there is an insert in the end of the S2 crankshaft that is supposed to come out to fit the spigot bush. Is this the case? If so, how do you get it out? It fits in there pretty tightly and there is nothing to grab onto.

Thanks,
Scott

When I was chasing my spigot bearing (madly on a saturday lunch time) one of the books at one shop appeared to quote the same for all! But dont take my word for it, DOUBLE CHECK!

Post by **Vsicks Pathy** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:36 pm

Autos don't have a spigot bush.
Ring repco for a second opinion.

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:56 pm

Doesnt the spigot bearing just sit in the flywheel itself, not on the end of the crank??

Post by **Vsicks Pathy** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:03 am

I.M.P.O.S.E wrote:Doesnt the spigot bearing just sit in the flywheel itself, not on the end of the crank??

Sits in the end of the crank.

Post by **Scott** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:09 pm

In case anyone's interested, it turns out there are different spigot bearings between a S1 & S2 motor, so the dude in the clutch shop didn't have a very good catalogue.

The the thing I thought was an insert in the end of the crank was actually part of the crank, so just as well I didn't try and pull that out. :roll:

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:14 pm

Scott wrote:The the thing I thought was an insert in the end of the crank was actually part of the crank, so just as well I didn't try and pull that out.

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