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Is an extra 1.2lt engine size worth it?
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Is an extra 1.2lt engine size worth it?
If I was to replace my 2.6lt EFI with a 3.8lt V6, how much would this compensate for a 4" increase is tyre size (going from 28" to 32")? I know the risk factor in breaking things due to the larger rubber is increased but is it enough to be concerned about (considering I only do grade 4 tracks)
FJ62 Crusier GM V8 Diesel Lockers 33 MTs/35 117 extremes
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
Re: Is an extra 1.2lt engine size worth it?
Nev62 wrote:If I was to replace my 2.6lt EFI with a 3.8lt V6, how much would this compensate for a 4" increase is tyre size (going from 28" to 32")? I know the risk factor in breaking things due to the larger rubber is increased but is it enough to be concerned about (considering I only do grade 4 tracks)
Why bother, wouldnt you be better off spending those thousands o' $ upgrading your truck to something more capable to start with?
what power/torque on both engines would tell u if its worth it, then ease of conversion would also help... if a shops doing it, at a guess on most other conversions priced here at shops ($7-10k usually) it will be over $5k..
Here is a cost breakdown. I does not include the half-cut I would use.
* Engine mount kit
* Speedo kit
* Wiring kit
* Bell housing adaptor
GM spigot diameter with external spline on the engine end and Mitsubishi spigot diameter with external spline on the gearbox end
* Instructions
KIT PRICE: $2,300.00 this includes GST .
Tacho interface - $150.00
EFI fuel pump - $240.00
16â€
* Engine mount kit
* Speedo kit
* Wiring kit
* Bell housing adaptor
GM spigot diameter with external spline on the engine end and Mitsubishi spigot diameter with external spline on the gearbox end
* Instructions
KIT PRICE: $2,300.00 this includes GST .
Tacho interface - $150.00
EFI fuel pump - $240.00
16â€
FJ62 Crusier GM V8 Diesel Lockers 33 MTs/35 117 extremes
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
I don't think bogged likes you brand of rig much, 
But he is right, the $ spent on trying to get the Raider up too standard could be better spent.
Maybe think about your resale plus the 10K on the conversion. about 5-7 if you do it your self. Can you get something that will handle those tyres and have the tourque to turn them?
These opinions are coming from experience in blood sweat and tears. I am stealing this from DAZ I think, when you want to make one modification it takes another three to make it work. It is usually the other three that cost the most too.
A bit of a story, I had the pump and box to convert mine to pwr str. So far it has cost me $900 and I haven't even got the box or pump on yet!
The grief spent on your conversion can be better spent elsewhere. In answer to your question no, don't do it. It will be a bit better to drive but not that better.
A list of things for your conversion too, engine mounts, new computer/engine, electric works, new bellhousing/transfer case adapters, tailshafts if the position moves, gearbox mounts, cut holes in your floor plan to fit the shifters etc.
It all adds up, there was a really really nice bunderrafor sale on here for about your conversion costs I think, might be better off looking at that?
But he is right, the $ spent on trying to get the Raider up too standard could be better spent.
Maybe think about your resale plus the 10K on the conversion. about 5-7 if you do it your self. Can you get something that will handle those tyres and have the tourque to turn them?
These opinions are coming from experience in blood sweat and tears. I am stealing this from DAZ I think, when you want to make one modification it takes another three to make it work. It is usually the other three that cost the most too.
A bit of a story, I had the pump and box to convert mine to pwr str. So far it has cost me $900 and I haven't even got the box or pump on yet!
The grief spent on your conversion can be better spent elsewhere. In answer to your question no, don't do it. It will be a bit better to drive but not that better.
A list of things for your conversion too, engine mounts, new computer/engine, electric works, new bellhousing/transfer case adapters, tailshafts if the position moves, gearbox mounts, cut holes in your floor plan to fit the shifters etc.
It all adds up, there was a really really nice bunderrafor sale on here for about your conversion costs I think, might be better off looking at that?
Something witty said by someone famous
Busiboy wrote:The grief spent on your conversion can be better spent elsewhere.
bingo. You can throw thousands at it and it wont be as capable as a Lux ute with 1/4 the same $ spent on it.
A list of things for your conversion too, engine mounts, new computer/engine, electric works, new bellhousing/transfer case adapters, tailshafts if the position moves, gearbox mounts, cut holes in your floor plan to fit the shifters etc.
It all adds up,
Agree 2000%.
Nev
You'll never end up with the ultimate trail rig if you start with a Raider (?) - but I think you already know that.
There will be much heartache involved, and unexpected expenses you cannot predict right now. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it if you want to. The nay-sayers don't understand that some people aren't interested in driving a Nissan (much less a Toyota
) People will always criticise you for being different - but who wants to be just another sheep in the flock?
The V6 will produce much more torque down low for turning the big tyres. Personally, I'd consider going the T700 too.
Come up with a number, double it and add some more. If you can afford to spend that much, do it. Particularly if it will make you happy.
Good luck,
Scott
You'll never end up with the ultimate trail rig if you start with a Raider (?) - but I think you already know that.
There will be much heartache involved, and unexpected expenses you cannot predict right now. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it if you want to. The nay-sayers don't understand that some people aren't interested in driving a Nissan (much less a Toyota
) People will always criticise you for being different - but who wants to be just another sheep in the flock?
The V6 will produce much more torque down low for turning the big tyres. Personally, I'd consider going the T700 too.
Come up with a number, double it and add some more. If you can afford to spend that much, do it. Particularly if it will make you happy.
Good luck,
Scott
Nev
Just been down a similar track, wondering if its all worth it or not!
I DID IT!
just hope that its worth it 
My tacho interface was $95 for bundera diesel from marks, where is charging you that? Maybe not as common?
As for the fuel pump, go to the wreckers and grab yourself a vl commodore one for about $50!
Just trying to help you out!
Just been down a similar track, wondering if its all worth it or not!
I DID IT!
just hope that its worth it
My tacho interface was $95 for bundera diesel from marks, where is charging you that? Maybe not as common?
As for the fuel pump, go to the wreckers and grab yourself a vl commodore one for about $50!
Just trying to help you out!
What condition is the 2.6 in? Have you considered turboing or supercharging? Turbos can be set up well to increase bottom end power. Just either run std compression and low boost, or get a 2mm copper head gasket which will lower the compression and allow more boost... Water injection and or intercooling can control pre ignition.
Then if the motor eventually gets too tired rebuild it. easy peasy, only 4 cylinders.
The only other thing i'd look at is the low range gearing and decide wether you'll be happy having it increased a bit.
I'd stick the tyres on first and see how ya go, then weigh up your options.
Then if the motor eventually gets too tired rebuild it. easy peasy, only 4 cylinders.
The only other thing i'd look at is the low range gearing and decide wether you'll be happy having it increased a bit.
I'd stick the tyres on first and see how ya go, then weigh up your options.
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots
Nev, Why do you want your raider to always be something more than it can ever be? Either get a truck and start modding or stick to easy trails. How much money have you spent upto this point and what do you now have?! I really think you'd save yourself plenty of coin and get alot more enjoyment from a hilux... or GQ perhaps.
You car to this point is a credit to your tenacity, but there is a reason why people only mod certain trucks. I am happy to be proven wrong... seriously I am... but until the RAV4/CRV tread is created make a decision NOW if your going to keep spending $$$ on a machine that will only take you so far.
You car to this point is a credit to your tenacity, but there is a reason why people only mod certain trucks. I am happy to be proven wrong... seriously I am... but until the RAV4/CRV tread is created make a decision NOW if your going to keep spending $$$ on a machine that will only take you so far.
speaking as someone who has done it, i wouldnt look back (however i went from 4 cyl carby to V6 fuel injected)
why be another persone driving a modded yoda or modded patrol, every you look you see yodas driven by 'soccer mum'
why be another persone driving a modded yoda or modded patrol, every you look you see yodas driven by 'soccer mum'
2003 GU Patrol ST 4.2L Diesel Turbo Intercooled
1988 D21 Pathfinder 3.8L V6 & T700 - SOLD 11/12
1988 D21 Pathfinder 3.8L V6 & T700 - SOLD 11/12
I'd think that turbocharging or supercharging the 2.6 is gonna get you the power you need at a much much lower cost.
Running 32"s doesnt need that much power really - antt's doing it with a 1.6 donk and you're already one litre in front of that. I had 31"s and 1.6 carby and it pushed that too.
Remember we started with much smaller tyres than you too.
I think it's more a question of gearing. Are alternative diff ratios available?
You'd come out with heaps more money, a more effective rig and less headaches by turbo or supercharging and then looking at gearing fixes, even if you have to start looking at changing the tcase.
Running 32"s doesnt need that much power really - antt's doing it with a 1.6 donk and you're already one litre in front of that. I had 31"s and 1.6 carby and it pushed that too.
Remember we started with much smaller tyres than you too.
I think it's more a question of gearing. Are alternative diff ratios available?
You'd come out with heaps more money, a more effective rig and less headaches by turbo or supercharging and then looking at gearing fixes, even if you have to start looking at changing the tcase.
Nev, honestly I think it will cost you much more than what you detailed above and you will start popping CV's regularly. If your breaking them now then it's a certainty with more power and 32"s.
I'll be doing an engine conversion later on but I concentrated on getting the drivetrain right first with gearing, axles etc able to cope with 35"s and the stock V6.
I know it's cool to have something different thats capable but you have to be realistic at the same time.
If you really want to drive harder tracks and run bigger tyres I'd be looking at trading in on something else that won't end up in heartache and costing heaps of $$$$ Unfortunately there is a reason why Toyo's, Nissans, Zuks, Rovers are popular because they don't cost heaps of $$$ to get working well & reliable. They also have plenty of scope for further mods (structural rather than bolt on bandit stuff).
The Paj is marginal in this respect but we have gears, lockers plus other mods already available and later model stuff can be used to upgrade earlier models so it's nowhere near as bad.
I'll be doing an engine conversion later on but I concentrated on getting the drivetrain right first with gearing, axles etc able to cope with 35"s and the stock V6.
I know it's cool to have something different thats capable but you have to be realistic at the same time.
If you really want to drive harder tracks and run bigger tyres I'd be looking at trading in on something else that won't end up in heartache and costing heaps of $$$$ Unfortunately there is a reason why Toyo's, Nissans, Zuks, Rovers are popular because they don't cost heaps of $$$ to get working well & reliable. They also have plenty of scope for further mods (structural rather than bolt on bandit stuff).
The Paj is marginal in this respect but we have gears, lockers plus other mods already available and later model stuff can be used to upgrade earlier models so it's nowhere near as bad.
I just luv my "clacker Jabber"
the raider was quiet a good car confertable if i remember
< when i lived at home nev62 is my old man>
althought it will cost the world to do alot of mods and stuff
wouldnt it be good just to see somthing different?
and somthing different that has dont better then patrol or toyota on grade 3-4 tracks?
just my opion
< when i lived at home nev62 is my old man>
althought it will cost the world to do alot of mods and stuff
wouldnt it be good just to see somthing different?
and somthing different that has dont better then patrol or toyota on grade 3-4 tracks?
just my opion
1995 land rover disco on 265 muddies
I personally went down this process with the Vitara and while it was always cool to see the looks of shock and awe on people's faces, the $$$ spent could have easily gone on something else to be far more capable.
I made the decision to cut my losses and buy a GQ (Maverick) but the point at which I did so the changeover price would have paid for a rockhopper and a Solid Axle conversion.
Do I have a more capable vehicle than what I would have had if I pumped another $5k into the vitara.
No way in heck.
At the moment on 33"s and with a factory difflock I often fail to beat what the vit could do with 31"s and welded diff.
In fact the vitara even without the extra $5k in mods would still hose the Maverick in almost every environment.
What I have gained though is I have a 4wd that's not gonna constantly break stuff.
Recently in fact I got hosed by an unlocked Vitara on 31"s in some stretches of Ormeau (until he busted front diff no 3).
For me in many ways that's enough, I dont wanna waste every second weekend repairing it.
I made the decision to cut my losses and buy a GQ (Maverick) but the point at which I did so the changeover price would have paid for a rockhopper and a Solid Axle conversion.
Do I have a more capable vehicle than what I would have had if I pumped another $5k into the vitara.
No way in heck.
At the moment on 33"s and with a factory difflock I often fail to beat what the vit could do with 31"s and welded diff.
In fact the vitara even without the extra $5k in mods would still hose the Maverick in almost every environment.
What I have gained though is I have a 4wd that's not gonna constantly break stuff.
Recently in fact I got hosed by an unlocked Vitara on 31"s in some stretches of Ormeau (until he busted front diff no 3).
For me in many ways that's enough, I dont wanna waste every second weekend repairing it.
MQ080 wrote:matthewK wrote: wouldnt it be good just to see somthing different?
Agreed, but quite soon Nev needs to decide if he is going to cut his losses or pour way more $$$ than he has been to get the raider on grade 3 tracks.
Agree.. yea sometimes nice to be different, but then you could buy one of numerous other well known as capable trucks out there, zooks to patrol/cruisers, that you can buy bits off the shelf for. You can throw millions at the raider, or throw 1/4 of the same $ at something else and have something much more capable then the millions $ raider...
do you see a common thought train here on what to do?
What's so bad about the Raider? It's got IFS, solid leaf rear- guess what- so do Hilux's and Navara's.... and lots of people fork out for SAS, change diffs, engines, gearboxes, suspension etc, etc.
My solid axle Hilux, in standard form, has gutless motor, weak gearbox, weak CV's, poor steering setup, pathetic articulation.
In an effort to make it better I've changed just about everything except the cab!
Nev don't be put off by the bolt on bandits who insist the aftermarket doesn't cater for your truck- the best trucks run bit's and pieces of all kinds of vehicles, they all cost similar at end of the day.
You've got good rear springs as a start- Mazda/ Hilux IFS rears are all the rage atmo.
Josh.
My solid axle Hilux, in standard form, has gutless motor, weak gearbox, weak CV's, poor steering setup, pathetic articulation.
In an effort to make it better I've changed just about everything except the cab!
Nev don't be put off by the bolt on bandits who insist the aftermarket doesn't cater for your truck- the best trucks run bit's and pieces of all kinds of vehicles, they all cost similar at end of the day.
You've got good rear springs as a start- Mazda/ Hilux IFS rears are all the rage atmo.
Josh.
I beleive the conversion is defianatly worth doing. Im guessing you own the Raider allready and know its faults. Why buy someone elses problems and start again. Only thing i can suggest is dont use the Raider Box and transfer. you will regret it. The transfers are very weak and the gearboxs are not much better. Even the Hilux 5spds dont stand up well to the Commodore V6. Best bet would be to do a complete engine ,gearbox and transfer conversion. I think the cost would still work out very similare to what you are allready looking at spending. I would go with a Series 2 commodore V6 with the 4spd Auto and a hilux transfer. Then you have a strong gearbox and a transfer that has aftermarket gearing options. The auto will make it a much more drivable rig with the V6 as well.
Do the conversion once and do it right.
Do the conversion once and do it right.
RUFF wrote:I beleive the conversion is defianatly worth doing. Im guessing you own the Raider allready and know its faults. Why buy someone elses problems and start again. Only thing i can suggest is dont use the Raider Box and transfer. you will regret it. The transfers are very weak and the gearboxs are not much better. Even the Hilux 5spds dont stand up well to the Commodore V6. Best bet would be to do a complete engine ,gearbox and transfer conversion. I think the cost would still work out very similare to what you are allready looking at spending. I would go with a Series 2 commodore V6 with the 4spd Auto and a hilux transfer. Then you have a strong gearbox and a transfer that has aftermarket gearing options. The auto will make it a much more drivable rig with the V6 as well.
Do the conversion once and do it right.
I'm guessing Ruff would know a thing or two about this sort of thing.
Hmmm - do it right and you only need to do it once. I'll have to remember that...
Cheers,
Scott
Thanks all for your thoughts. Whichever way I go, it will be a slow process. I'm not in any rush and are happy just be be able to get out on the weekends be it Menai or the Brindabella's.
FJ62 Crusier GM V8 Diesel Lockers 33 MTs/35 117 extremes
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
Macarthur District 4WD Club http://www.macarthur4wdclub.com.au
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