New rockcrawling series - WE Rock Australia

[antt]

I have been reading the rules and thinking and reading the rules and thinking more...

But i would like to clarify something...

For the legends class... Must you use rhs chassis and is there an amount that has to be used??? Like from the front to the positiion of the rear axle or whatever?

cheers,
Joel

iirc joel, the chassis must run from the front edge of the front tires, to the centreline of the rear tires

[Strange Rover]

yep antt's got it right.

The frame must go from the front of the front tyres to the centre line of the rear axle minimum. The frame material must be OME or a minimum of 4in (100mm) high x 2in(50mm) wide x .12in (3mm) wall. So you can either run with a factory frame of make a custom one from RHS. Now the rules as they are currently written dont actually say you can use a factory frame but Im certain this is what they are after - Ill chase them up on this point.

You can run whatever suspension setup you want (air shock, air bags, coilovers, coils, leafs, hydraulic whatever)

The only thing is the suspension system cannot control individual tyres (cannot have forced articulation). The system can change the entire height of the front or rear axles (similar to a winch or airbag connected to the centre of either axle)

Sam

[crokie83]

so does that mean that beebee cant use his rear hydro suspension?

[bundyboy]

okay cheers guys.

[beebee]

so does that mean that beebee cant use his rear hydro suspension?

It just means that I wont be able to use them individually. I'll just tee them together or I can set them before I begin the course. I'm not going to be able to use my rear steer either (if I get around to doing it) but that wont stop me putting it in.

[Midget]

Beebee
So when you put in the rear steer,Does that mean you will be taking it off the road for good,and making it a purpose built comp rig???

[beebee]

What's a purpose built comp rig? How would I get to work

Unless Queensland Transport tell me otherwise, the lux will never be retired from road use. When I eventually build a buggy, the hilux will become the tow rig. Nothing wrong with having a tuff tow rig is there


PS The rear steer is not a certainty yet but we will see what happens. It won't be huge, just enough to combat the 40ft wheelbase and reduced front steering lock.

[big red]

perhaps you could use hydro rams for trailing arms to give you steering at the rear.

[beebee]

I wouldn't be the first!

Have already thought of that but the rams wouldn't handle the sideways thrust for too long before blowing seals. The way to do it is to have the chassis attachment points on slides so that they can withstand the non axial loads and then have a ram attached to them to push them in/out to steer. Not that much different to my proposed setup.

[Surfection]

I don't remember this from the rules but hopefully you can answer it Sam. Is nitrous and other forms of compressed gas, say for cooling allowed to be run ? This rig will be heavy enough without it but i might think about something different for the next one.

Thanks, Jeremy

[Roctoy]

Sam, when are you officially launching the W.E.Rock (Aust) web site. It's looking pretty good at http://werock.4wd.org.au

Yea - soon. Just want to wait for the rules to get sorted and confirm a couple of competition dates.

Looks like finally we are going to see rockcrawling at a venue near Sydney

Sam

Sam, it's been a month since this post?
what's happening?
do we have any rules / dates set in concrete yet?

Also is the minimun weight of a buggy 2200lbs approx 800kgs?
if yes, isn't this heavy?
what do your buggys weigh (Haultech guys)


Cheers chris

[83 lux]

around 1200kg POS --to-- 1600kg BJ i think
we did wight them a long time ago

[Roctoy]

MAN, that's alot heavier than i would have expected, i guess everything adds up.

i'm going bulk light with mine...
engine choice included.

[Strange Rover]

Yea - Ive been a bit quite on this but its all happening. We got the date tied in at Rover Park on the 12/13 March. Will have the flyer out for that event at BOTC next weekend. And almost got the date tied in for the Sydney event but this may take another month before we can commit.

The web site should be fully up and running in the next week or so and I think the rules are fairly well finalised although I do think there are afew minor issues that arnt full covered but I can sort them as we go.

Now the only thing that concerns me is they are looking to open up the Ledgens class into more of a Pro Modified class (they ran this class in 2003). Which means that they are basically looking at drooping the RHS frame requirement and the steering box and opening up the tyre size to 40in. This sort of class really suits what lots of people have built in the US - basically a front engined two seat tube buggy with OEM looking panels. They are debating whether to stay with the 37in tyre limit or not and whether to allow full hydro or not but it looks to me that they are going to definately drop the RHS frame requirement.

For us here I think the 37in tyre limit really suits us given the sort of axles that everybody is running (toy and nissan stuff) To run the 40s you really need the D60 type stuff which is really expensive. Now droping the RHS frame riquirement is a good thing because what they were trying to enforce was just going to be really difficult. And with the rest of the spec whether you run full tube or part tube and part chassis doesent really give that much of an advantage.

They are looking at making these rule changes for the classes next year - 2006. Now for where we are, I think it would be better for us to use the new rules straight away cause we dont want to go bulding Legends rigs with a full frame if we can get away with tube. There are also rigs already out there that would fit into this class with minimal modifications if the frame rule was dropped. So if they are going to change things we want to change them now and not next year.

Personally what I think would be best for us here is:

37" tires
Steering box
2 normal/equal sized seats side by side on an equal plane
Minimum vehicle width of say 46"
Body as required in the legends (ie bonnet, front guards and grill to look OEM plus door skins and rear quarters)
no rear steer


Having the steering box and not full hydro makes the rigs more OEM like and it also limits the advantage of a full tube buggy over something thats built on a chassis which I think is a very good thing.

Limiting the tyres to 37in means that the axles we have here will survive fairly well. Things like nissan and toyota axles will handle this sized tyre where as if the rule allowed 40s then if you got the $$ to run D60s and the 40s you will be at a major advantage.

The rest of the rules are there to make the rigs look more like a factory 4wd so that the class appeals to the general public.

Basically with this formula sombody can start with a hilux frame and axles, add a tube body, link the rear and be competitive against the guy that buys an atlas, D60s and a full tube buggy.

I have almost convinced myself to just run the rules as above and then see what the US guys do next year. Only problem with this is if our pro modified is full of rigs with 37s and steering boxes and theres is full of 40s and full hydro then we will get flogged in the world championships.

I should have all this sorted my next week.

Sam

[Strange Rover]

I don't remember this from the rules but hopefully you can answer it Sam. Is nitrous and other forms of compressed gas, say for cooling allowed to be run ? This rig will be heavy enough without it but i might think about something different for the next one.

Thanks, Jeremy

Probably should of answered this before but.....

I really have no idea what you are talking about and im sure it isnt covered in the rules so if it looks dodgy and dangerous then it probably is and it wont be allowed to run.

Sam

[redzook]

Personally what I think would be best for us here is:

37" tires
Steering box
2 normal/equal sized seats side by side on an equal plane
Minimum vehicle width of say 46"
Body as required in the legends (ie bonnet, front guards and grill to look OEM plus door skins and rear quarters)
no rear steer

i think them rules are good
and id say u will get alot more compitors with them rules

it will also work out alot cheaper
37"s are cheap 40's are way dearer plus then u need diffs that will hold up to 40's

my 2c

[Roctoy]

This sort of class really suits what lots of people have built in the US - basically a front engined two seat tube buggy with OEM looking panels.

i want to do a rear / mid engined 2 seater, does the engine have to be in the front???

Chris

[gurumon]

Body as required in the legends (ie bonnet, front guards and grill to look OEM plus door skins and rear quarters)

where does that leave all the existing buggies? would the one piece panels everyone puts on the sides be considered "OEM looking"?

or do they need to be actual oem panels attached to the tube frame?

[POS]

Roctoy, once as you put the engine in the rear it would put you straight into the unlimited's.

Unlimiteds is not just restricted to single seaters!

In regards to the current buggy's having to change panels to get them into the middle class than yes that is what they have to do if they want to compete in that class!

I won't be changing which meens i will be in unlimited, this is the class i want to compete in.

[humphey]

Roctoy, once as you put the engine in the rear it would put you straight into the unlimited's.

Unlimiteds is not just restricted to single seaters!

In regards to the current buggy's having to change panels to get them into the middle class than yes that is what they have to do if they want to compete in that class!

I won't be changing which meens i will be in unlimited, this is the class i want to compete in.

so how many unlimited buggys /rigs have we got so far .

[Wendle]

how lenient are you going to be with the vehicle specs initially? i would like to compete in the first round for a bit of fun but my car, while very safe, misses quite a few of the outlined design/safety points.
i don't mind changing a few things, but as i am not interested in competing in the whole series, and am in the midst of building a new car anyway, i don't want to rework the whole thing...

[Roctoy]

Roctoy, once as you put the engine in the rear it would put you straight into the unlimited's.

Unlimiteds is not just restricted to single seaters!

In regards to the current buggy's having to change panels to get them into the middle class than yes that is what they have to do if they want to compete in that class!

I won't be changing which meens i will be in unlimited, this is the class i want to compete in.

that's what i thought, unlimited is cool anyway.

Cheers Chris

[FireTruck]

...hydro rams (cylinders) for trailing arms looks to be outside the rules (ie. no wheelbase changes allowed - although it does say 'manual').

I would prefer not to fall behind by restricting the rules to 37's and steering box... I think they will go for 40's and full hydro, and if us Aussies want to compete we have to keep up with the Jones's.

Just my opinion.

S.

[Strange Rover]

how lenient are you going to be with the vehicle specs initially? i would like to compete in the first round for a bit of fun but my car, while very safe, misses quite a few of the outlined design/safety points.
i don't mind changing a few things, but as i am not interested in competing in the whole series, and am in the midst of building a new car anyway, i don't want to rework the whole thing...

You probably need to be more specific on the safety items - we dont really want to be missing any of these. The rules allow rigs that dont comply to all the specs to be passed on an individual basis by a WE Rock official.

Sam

[Strange Rover]

...hydro rams (cylinders) for trailing arms looks to be outside the rules (ie. no wheelbase changes allowed - although it does say 'manual').

I would prefer not to fall behind by restricting the rules to 37's and steering box... I think they will go for 40's and full hydro, and if us Aussies want to compete we have to keep up with the Jones's.

Just my opinion.

S.

You would be allowed hydro rams for trailing arms inunlimited although they would have to work so as to just steer the rear axle (one side moves forward and the other moves back) so that it doesent change the wheelbase. You can only manually change the wheelbase in between the obstacles and not on an obstacle.

After speaking to Rich Klein, it looks like the legends class will become a pro modified class and will be

37" tires
Steering box
2 normal/equal sized seats side by side on an equal plane
Minimum vehicle width of say 46"
Body as required in the legends (ie bonnet, front guards and grill to look OEM plus door skins and rear quarters)
no rear steer


In the super modified you can have your 40s and full hydro steer.

Sam

[POS]

I would prefer not to fall behind by restricting the rules to 37's and steering box... I think they will go for 40's and full hydro, and if us Aussies want to compete we have to keep up with the Jones's.

Just my opinion.

S.

The rules that are set have been done so by WEROCK america, and we of course will be using those same rules. I don't see how we would "fall behind" when we are running the same classes as the U.S guys!

The 37's and No Hydro is for the Pro Modified (middle) class, if you want to run hydro steering and 40 inch tyres then Unlimited is the class you will be in. I don't think anyone here is going to be restricted by these rules!

[FireTruck]

sorry mate - I may not have been very clear in the 1st post... I totally agree we should use the same rules as the US guys... what I thought was being proposed was to use a different set of rules here to suit our availability, etc.

What I am saying is that if the US guys rules say 40 + hydro ours should match. We shouldn't have tighter restrictions just because it is harder/more expensive to get the gear here.

I do also agree though that it may be wise to be somewhat flexible in terms of adhering to every rule and spec in the first year... as long as it is safe I think it would be better for the sport to have more rather than fewer competitors.

Unfortunately it's gunna be more expensive here until the movement really takes off...

S.

[POS]

OK now that B.O.T.C is all over its time now to get the first round of WEROCK happening!

The Area is already picked out and should produce some insane driving.

For all you folks out there that want to come down/up and watch make sure you start planning days off etc etc now! AS ITS ONLY 8 WEEKS AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[De-lux]

ok, after reading through the few pages of info here, im stoked to hear the news that Aust is going to have a chop at the global circuit!

everyone has my full support, and while i can't offer much, previously there was a mention of advertising / marketing etc of this. I am more than keen to assist in this department if anyone needs a hand with it.

good luck to all, and i'll be there for round one!!

[Dozoor]

All sound Exellent guy,s ! ,

1. Just wondering where i would stand , Oem for each item body and chassis , or for the whole car ?
2.when they say Oem for the body panels , sam mentioned front gaurds grill ect hood, Is there a percentage of oem here, by the rules looks like every thing up to and including the legends class is 100% oem look ,

chopped gaurds and different grill , different chassis - would put 'Thing' into unlimited ?

(Getting close to biulding a bent axle buggy, For unlimited Toggle switch throttle work ) Just wondering about current vehicle .

Larry.