Tuff Truck 2003

[grimbo]

are the sponsors going to pick from the same list on offer to the public to pick from or is it from past competitors. Also will the public have the list that includes past competitors or only new entrants

[planb]

my understanding is that last years top place getters are invited back, the remaining places are chosen from a pool of new entrants, the committee choose from that pool, the sponsors choose from that pool and the public choose from that pool. up to 20 opportunities for new comers, from capable backyard built trucks to secret squirrel offroad weapons. My advice would be to get your submissions ready, should be an awesome event.

[grimbo]

ok that makes it a bit clearer. I think the thinking was that the sponsors were going to be picking whatever they liked. At least it is from the entered vehicles not one out of the wide blue yonder.

[POS]

my understanding is that last years top place getters are invited back, the remaining places are chosen from a pool of new entrants, the committee choose from that pool, the sponsors choose from that pool and the public choose from that pool. up to 20 opportunities for new comers, from capable backyard built trucks to secret squirrel offroad weapons. My advice would be to get your submissions ready, should be an awesome event.

Thanks, now is this straight from the horses mouth or just your understanding of whats been posted so far.

If its the first then thats good news!!!

So how do we put our submissions in as i went to the TTC site and there was nothing much there!!!

[RUFF]

Rhys,
The only thing that bothers me with Sponsors picking entrants is that they are going to favour someone that runs a lot of there own gear and this will prob mean that ARB (for example) are going to want a rig that runs all ARBs bolt on gear. And then someone like Maquarie 4x4(again just an example) are going to want a rig that they built compeating.

Im not saying this is a totaly bad thing but just because someone runs all of a sponsors gear should not make them any more eligable than someone who doesn't. I know a few non sponsored rigs that will defianatly give a much better performance at TTC than more than half of the previous competitors.

One thing i defianatly dont want to see this year is every vehicle winching.
As far as i can remember last year the only stage that was driven without a winch was the All-Terrain. And i dont care what others think but there was not a single obstical at last years event that could not have been driven unassisted.

They call this competition TUFF TRUCK and i dont want to see another run of MILD TRUCK. (im not trying to offend previous entrants sorry if i come across that way)

[MissDrew]

One thing i defianatly dont want to see this year is every vehicle winching.
As far as i can remember last year the only stage that was driven without a winch was the All-Terrain. And i dont care what others think but there was not a single obstical at last years event that could not have been driven unassisted.

This is VERY!!!!!!! true ruff, but do it on all the stages, while under the clock, and trying not to break something.

As you know my rig was for me a completly new rig. The biggest thing for me was it was my FIRST time with Longfileds so their strength was a big unknowen to me. Now that I have driven with them a few times and each time I am pushing the rig harder, as I now know that my CV`s AREN`T going to break.
If I get another chance in TTC my rig will be driven alot harder then it was last year.

[MADSHORT]

Sorry i did not eplain the entrants thing properly.Not to sure on the masters bit but.The sponsors and TTC commitee will be picking from all entrants.The top ten positioned entrants have to pay half the entry fee to secure there spot to cut out Buil shiat entrants from taking a spot.
The internet votes are only going to accomadate 5 positions cause some one could sit there all day and vote for them selfs, they wont be running much through the mag this year as the great aussie mag is NOT printed in oz there for it takes 3 or so months to get stuff into it with time getting nearer it wont work (sales will be down this year) look i have read all of this thread I agree with a lot of you guys and i also disagree. I for one am trying to be consitant in comp and events hoping that potential sponsors will notice me. My trucks not the bigest and badest or the prettiest but at the end of the day we are still there(all self funded making it very hard)
Gordon

[RUFF]

Internet Voting can not and will not ever be fair as their are too many loop holes in the system.
If anything i think the last 5 entrents should be chosen by the First Ten competitors as i know if i were in that top ten i would be voting for 5 of the tuffest rigs entered to see if any of them could give me a run for their money not 5 rigs that will just fill numbers.

[POS]

Internet Voting can not and will not ever be fair as their are too many loop holes in the system.
If anything i think the last 5 entrents should be chosen by the First Ten competitors as i know if i were in that top ten i would be voting for 5 of the tuffest rigs entered to see if any of them could give me a run for their money not 5 rigs that will just fill numbers.

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!!!

[Strange Rover]

I really do hope that they dont let people vote over the internet. There is absolutely no way that voting over the net would work (except maybe voting with credit card numbers but Im sure even this isnt fool proof).

The internet is a very big place with lots of very clever people.

Sam

[spice]

jesus if that is true an votin over the net is allowed... im gunna make a program that just keeps refreshin and makin new votes every 15 seconds... then let it run while im away or at uni .... 4 votes a minute at 240 a hour at approx 6 hours a day = 1440 a day then 7 times a week 10080 votes.... all i have to do is just change the vote names to u guys who want to enter an your sure to get in

[zzzz]

You can make internet voting as secure as you like.
Just a matter of how smart the web developer is that writes the voting app...

[POS]

You can make internet voting as secure as you like.
Just a matter of how smart the web developer is that writes the voting app...

I'm pretty sure there are guys out there (even on this sight) that would have no problems working out a way of continuous voting!!!!

[bj on roids]

I am with zzzz all the fears about the internet voting are unfounded as long as the web developer or programmer built the right system it would be very difficult or impossible for someone to flaunt the system. Personally I dont think it would be that difficult to build a system that can not be cheated. I also beleive it would be a good and fair way to go. At least to get an idea of what people want to see.

I dont like suzukis.

Please people if you want a show, the outerlimits crew is there to do it.
Who wants to see whimps crying about tearing there doors off or breaking stuff? NOT ME! I dont care if i only bring some tyres and diff locks back, and the rest is spread across the rock scape at Singleton. I guarantee you all a show.

cheers
BJ

To all the people including spice who think it would be easy to cheat via an online voting panel please enlighten me as to how YOU personally would go about this?!! Especially Spice, im keen to hear how your idea of a revolving script is going to work, if it only allows individual IPs to vote once. Your script will die.

Guts, quit making excuses...... you had a bad run, dont blame your gear, what on the vehicle was new? It was essentially the same modified stock hilux with some accessories bolted on wasn't it? Maybe I am wrong??

[SAWZALL]

Sure you could set it up with one vote per email address BUT I'm a member of a Honda forum with 40000 members, pirate is around 18000 and performance forums is 6000. So a popular guy on a HUGE forum could raise all kinds of hell.......

[MissDrew]

Oh sorry BJ

[SAWZALL]

I dont get the modified stock Hilux bit........inside joke maybe???

[Aza]

if u guys didnt make ur replys soo long i might read it

[83 lux]

road trip to tuff truck

ps acom. already booked 8)

[Aza]

road trip to tuff truck

ps acom. already booked 8)

check list

scott - yes
food - yes
supplies - yes
aza - ??????

[bj on roids]

Oh sorry BJ

sorry guts, i didnt mean to make you feel bad. You put on a sterling effort. Do not feel bad. Hell if they ring and want you in, dont knock it back cause you would fell bad

and this goes for everyone:
IF SOMEONE RANG ME AND SAID HERE IS YOUR CHANCE TO ENTER TTC 2003, NO VOTING, NO POPULARITY CONTESTS, A STRAIGHT ENTRY, ARE YOU IN?

ID BE ALL LIKE HELL YEAH BIOTCH, FAWK THE MORALS, IM GOING STRAIGHT IN!!!!!!!!!

So cmawwn, madhosrt, guts, cheezy, im sure the guys from the site will support you all, so just get in there and do good. Again I am trying to get in, Again, my chances look slim, but ill bust my ass. Id love to get in there. Sure I might stuff it up, but itd be due to myself being unprepared :( But id put on the best damn show for the spectators!!!

[bj on roids]

road trip to tuff truck

ps acom. already booked 8)

you camp there dude

i asked my tent what it was doing in early september and it said maybe :o

i will book it earlier next time

[zzzz]

I work in IT security - you could call it hacking

Yes you can cheat with most sites and set up scripts, or write some code to post votes for you, but that is the lamest way to create an attack and the easiest one to defend.

You can determine whether someone has voted by IP address, even MAC address, cookies, session information, login name, etc. etc.

As with everything, the voting poll is only as secure as you make it.
It becomes a balance between the time and money involved in making it secure.

There is an amount of acceptable risk that is assumed by anyone on the internet in the first place. And there are alwasy security holes in things.

But in the same respect it is fairly trivial to make a secure voting system.
Especially given the intended audience that will be voting. I would be pretty confident that no one here could hack a poll that was designed securely.

Hell, lets have a challenge.
I will set up a poll on this site and see if anyone can influence the vote greatly by using any means necessary. And when I say greatly I mean lots, not getting a few hundred mates off another board vote.

Anyways, hope my mate and I can get in somehow....

[grimbo]

I think the problem with the internet voting is that it doesn't give a more accurate indication just because there are more votes for a rig.

At least keeping it as a form cut from a magazine truly sorts out the real votes not just a bunch of mates or boards voting for something. If you have to spend $8 for the mag to vote it's going to make it harder to convince a bunch of mates who aren't into 4wheeling to buy the mag and vote for you

[bj on roids]

I work in IT security - you could call it hacking

Yes you can cheat with most sites and set up scripts, or write some code to post votes for you, but that is the lamest way to create an attack and the easiest one to defend.

You can determine whether someone has voted by IP address, even MAC address, cookies, session information, login name, etc. etc.

As with everything, the voting poll is only as secure as you make it.
It becomes a balance between the time and money involved in making it secure.

There is an amount of acceptable risk that is assumed by anyone on the internet in the first place. And there are alwasy security holes in things.

But in the same respect it is fairly trivial to make a secure voting system.
Especially given the intended audience that will be voting. I would be pretty confident that no one here could hack a poll that was designed securely.

Hell, lets have a challenge.
I will set up a poll on this site and see if anyone can influence the vote greatly by using any means necessary. And when I say greatly I mean lots, not getting a few hundred mates off another board vote.

Anyways, hope my mate and I can get in somehow....

that is an excellent summary ZZZZ and props to you. Clearly you know what i'm talking about and we both know spice is full of it yes scripts can be written, but every 15 seconds? WTF!!! DUDE

write one that votes every tenth of a second, if the poll is that lame, it deserves a million votes every 1.1 hours

[planb]

Rhys,
The only thing that bothers me with Sponsors picking entrants is that they are going to favour someone that runs a lot of there own gear and this will prob mean that ARB (for example) are going to want a rig that runs all ARBs bolt on gear. And then someone like Maquarie 4x4(again just an example) are going to want a rig that they built compeating.

Ruff, i agree that sponsors may well be inclined to select a truck that presents with the best advertising potential.

but what is the public going to think when that truck comes last ?

what do people have to say about this years voting system compared to the previous years ?

i.e those with the deepest pockets and a zillion copies of 4wd monthly get in verse preferential voting by industry peers.

either way is going to upset the unlucky entrants that are not selected.

i like the idea of talent trials.

one for each state, months before the event.

a logistics nightmare

but a heap of fun/

[bj on roids]

Rhys,
The only thing that bothers me with Sponsors picking entrants is that they are going to favour someone that runs a lot of there own gear and this will prob mean that ARB (for example) are going to want a rig that runs all ARBs bolt on gear. And then someone like Maquarie 4x4(again just an example) are going to want a rig that they built compeating.

Ruff, i agree that sponsors may well be inclined to select a truck that presents with the best advertising potential.

but what is the public going to think when that truck comes last ?

what do people have to say about this years voting system compared to the previous years ?

i.e those with the deepest pockets and a zillion copies of 4wd monthly get in verse preferential voting by industry peers.

either way is going to upset the unlucky entrants that are not selected.

i like the idea of talent trials.

one for each state, months before the event.

a logistics nightmare

but a heap of fun/

yeah that sounds like the verdict

a top contender from each state should be allowed in, exactly as you said though it becomes a logistics nightmare but hey!!

anyways, i think the 4WD monthly voting thing is not that bad, hell i can think of worse ways

[Dozoor]

Just for interest sake when i was talking of stagnent 4x's i didn't mean Anybody from this board ,as all of you guys are constantly replacing with stronger or modifiying . And mad short get into it ! as Bj said if they rang and want you back jump on it .
A point on sponsers I was a bit disapionted that i couldn't fullfill my promises to the minor sponsers i got ,But its a learning curve .You can't control the coverage.
The self satisfaction from the event is good ,If you come last it might not be hehe.
One more piont on sponsers I had planned to use Two lockers in my car ,i had priced the things and decided im might get a good price of a sponser for these items , I approached a major advertiser in 4wd monthly,Gear to go anywhere in south oz- The owner told me he would front me 2 for the price of one to run his stickers, I agreed - after several phone calls over months it was like a cat and mouse game . They never surfaced and i had to decide not to change the setup at all as we didn't have time .so open rear diff was it.
Be aware some printed matter changes by way of mouth eg: The enginneer reports where demanded early which caused a bit of a worry.
But also knocked a few guys out , and allowed i think 4-5 other guys in.
I think guts is right with the winch thing if you want to be Objectivly competitive you need to save as much time as possible
Lets face it Do you want to pay about $1000 bucks for a weekend and not be as competitive as you can ?
You need to gain pionts however you can.
Like Chezzy on the weriba ,only 2 wheel drive but still grabbed some pionts Top effort. 8)
When i talk of being competitive It dosn't necessarily mean winning outright we didn't go in to this event expecting to win this event ,we would have been rapt with the top ten, I wanted to see how my Overall $1600 bucks worth of mods went agianst the rest and was happy as larry.
And we didn't come last hehe.The best thing is figuring out where i went wrong,.
Apart from all the buiizit it was still a ball of fun If you get the chance to do it Reach out and GRAB IT.
I'll be there to watch this year I hope all you guys get in !!
Cant wait how does the zook hater say it Bring It AWWWNNNN
will your cars be regoed Sam and Sam -.Bj have they a new plan for engineer laws between states ?
Im just depressed my thing pos won't be there- Not to long after thow hehe

[Strange Rover]

I think that the best selection process would be to just make the entry fee more expensive, accept entrys from everybody who wants to compete and get everyone to turn up to the competition a day early to compete in a selection trial (on something like the frame twister track). And then take the top 30 trucks from that and keep everybodys entry fee whether they qualify or not.

This may be a harsh way to do it but I think you will find that something like this method of qualify/entry would sort out the rigs that should be there very quickly. I would guess that the rigs that dont really belong there wouldnt enter at all.

It would make people have a serious look at their rigs ability and chances of qualifying in to the comp before they blew their $1000 dollars or so.

At the moment its just a matter putting in your entry, seeing if you get accepted, paying your money and getting your rig put in the magazine as being a "Tuff Truck" whether its a stocker with a winch thats wouldnt be a capable as half the daily driver rigs that get around up here or something that really does work and deserves to have the "tuff truck" label.

what do people have to say about this years voting system compared to the previous years ?

I think that the proposed system should work OK as long as the people doing the selection have their hearts in the right place. I think that internet voting isnt a good idea and I dont think that 10 from last years event should automatically get in. I would go for top 3 at most. And if the selection panel is really as good as we hope it going to be than they should just select them all and none from last year get automatic entry - everybody just gets in on their own merits.

Sam

[bj on roids]

jesus if that is true an votin over the net is allowed... im gunna make a program that just keeps refreshin and makin new votes every 15 seconds... then let it run while im away or at uni .... 4 votes a minute at 240 a hour at approx 6 hours a day = 1440 a day then 7 times a week 10080 votes.... all i have to do is just change the vote names to u guys who want to enter an your sure to get in

CMAWN mr hacker boy...

where you at? we gots us a poll... or are you full of chit?

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... php?t=3274