Got bored today....

Website · Post by **murcod** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:23 pm

I ripped the injectors out yesterday and they're in getting flowed and cleaned- hopefully that will cure my detonation problem. Currently the timing is retarded below factory settings, I'm running 98 octane fuel and I'm still getting detonation on hot days. I get them back tonight ... fingers crossed it fixes the problem.

Anyway, while I had the inlet manifold in pieces I thought I'd modify the throttle body a bit. The before and after shots are attached below. I've done similar mods before on another vehicle and got a noticeable power gain; but I don't expect to see much difference with the Feroza until the air filter and exhaust are upgraded.

Post by **Heathx4** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 6:49 pm

Throw a newbie a bone here, what exactly is the difference in those pictures? Looks a little cleaner, and the screws holding the butterfly have been replaced. What is it supposed to do? Better flow?

Post by **Drafty** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:16 pm

Throw a Drafty a bone here, what exactly is the difference in those pictures? Looks a little cleaner, and the screws holding the butterfly have been replaced. What is it supposed to do? Better flow?

Post by ***BESTY*** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:31 pm

Geez guys..........even I can see the real difference..........

The Grass is GREENER

Post by **Andy** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:31 pm

Throw Andy a bone here, what exactly is the difference in those pictures? Looks a little cleaner, and the screws holding the butterfly have been replaced. What is it supposed to do? Better flow?

Post by **Big-Stu** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:32 pm

Can't you see the difference.
Do I have to point it out to you.

On the second picture notice how the grass in the backgroung looks much greener.
Not just that but look at the plastic chair (also Green). First picture completely invisible but easily recognised in the second picture.

Obviously this man has discovered how to make the grass look greener on your side of the fence.

I'm having a bit of trouble locating the carby on my diesel Rocky, if I can find that sucker I'm going to do that mod for sure.

Just as a matter of interest how many people are here from the WARFS site ?
I notice a few names that I recognise.

Post by **Andy** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:39 pm

Can you do your magic green trick to my front lawn , have'nt watered it for awhile and has gone brown :lol:

Post by ***BESTY*** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 7:57 pm

Is this better.....a quick water

Post by **Drafty** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 8:12 pm

Ferozius thats increadible, you must have a green bum for sure.

Post by **Heathx4** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 9:07 pm

Bwa ha ha. Just came back from a house warming, loving the dialogue. Working on losing the newbie status here.

I like it, big-stu. Nice to see another diesel Rocky owner around these ere parts. What year? Find it gets hot easy? I think I have some work to do on the cooling. Got a turbo? I'm planning on adding one. If you find the carby, give me a bell.

Great work on the grass Feroz. Have you looked at grabbing that summer job going on in General Chit Chat? There's a lass looking for some grass work.

Post by **BundyRumandCoke** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 5:15 am

Brown lawn, no water, Go buy a tin of GREEN PAINT. Never mow again. :twisted:

Running hot, is it Heath, try cleaning the radiator core out, :shock:

as in, the internals, you have to pull the tanks off and flush and ream the cores, but makes a HUGE difference. Even motors run exclusively with coolant gather crap in the cores.

Hey Big Stu, about time you found us here. Actually thought you were on here already. The manual works great, gearbox and transfer case rebuilds are a cinch now.

Cheers
David

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:51 am

Jeez, now what was the original topic again???? :lol:

For those who couldn't see the difference, check out the centre shaft that supports the butterfly. It's a lot thinner (filed down), which means there is more surface area for the air to flow through...... Countersunk screws would have been better, but they're some bizarre size (is there such a thing as M3.5??) and I couldn't find any. :(

Post by **Drafty** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:58 am

Thanks for clearing that up, now WE can ALL see the difference.

Post by **moose** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 12:02 pm

& the really special bit .......
in pic 1 , there are 2 hands holding the throttle body !!!!!!!
so how was the foto taken ???????????????????

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 12:44 pm

......I was holding the camera between my teeth of course!

I try and post a serious mod for all those under powered Feroza owners and all I cop is s**t! :cry:

Post by **moose** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 1:08 pm

OK , seriously ,
did it get you any gains ???
is it back on yet ?????
low end gain ??
or top end gain ????

there ya go , post the serious results , NO SH!T involved !!!!
:finger:

Post by ***BESTY*** » Sun Mar 30, 2003 3:33 pm

moose wrote:OK , seriously ,
did it get you any gains ???
is it back on yet ?????
low end gain ??
or top end gain ????

there ya go , post the serious results , NO SH!T involved !!!!

Well............did ya ?????

Website · Post by **murcod** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:27 am

I can't really give a clear indication of a power gain. As I said the injectors were in for a clean, but now it does go better.

I just need to try and get a timing light now to check how retarded the timing is from factory spec (and pray the detonation doesn't return)

Post by **Heathx4** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 10:29 am

Perhaps I have a simplified view of how this thing works, but I can't see how a thinner shaft would help. How often would you run with the butterfly full open anyway? I would think that having a thinner shaft would simply mean that you need slightly less right foot for the same power. No?

Website · Post by **murcod** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 2:17 pm

The butterfly is fully open (as in the pics) everytime you plant your right foot to the floor. The idea behind it is it will allow more air flow through the throttle body and into the engine. It should also flow better as the shaft is now a lower profile.

More air in means more power. Of course other things come into play such as how restrictive the air filter is, backpressure from the exhaust etc.

That's all the theory behind it anyway. My other car showed a definite improvement after doing the same mod.

Post by **moose** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:55 pm

more air = more power ?????
more air + more fuel = more power !!!!!!

if the ECU doesnt recognise more air going in , & add more fuel , you are only gunna run your engine LEANER !!!

& leaner means HOTTER !!!!

just my $0.02c worth !!!! :finger:

Post by **robbie** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 5:57 pm

isn't that what a air flow meter is for, to tell the ecu how much air is going into the motor, so it sends a signal for more fuel through the injectors?

edit: dont flame me if I am wrong, just taking a stab :o

Post by **Big-Stu** » Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:01 pm

Murcod,
Yes there is such a thing as a 3.5mm screw, and just for you I have some countersunk ones.

Because we have all been having a bit of a laugh at your expense I feel sorry for you.
So to patch things up I'll send you some of these hard to get screws.
Just send me an EMail with your address and I will send them down to you. Email me at drakefamily@optusnet.com.au

Good to see we've all got a sense of humour.

Stu
1992 intercooled turbo diesel Rocky
(with a few mods - them seat covers make a heap of difference - handles better with them)

Website · Post by **murcod** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:00 am

moose wrote:more air = more power ?????
more air + more fuel = more power !!!!!!

if the ECU doesnt recognise more air going in , & add more fuel , you are only gunna run your engine LEANER !!!

& leaner means HOTTER !!!!

just my $0.02c worth !!!!

Agreed Moose. But the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor's job is to calculate how much air is flowing into the inlet manifold. The ECU then should calculate the correct mixture (within limits of course- if you wacked a turbo onto it there would be problems!)

Big Stu, thanks for the offer, I'll send you an Email soon.

I don't mind the jokes, but it's a bit disappointing when nobody is interested in a different mod.....

Post by **Ferwoaza** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:14 am

I'm interested...but am waiting for some real world tests

I have no idea what you are talking about and what you have modded...but if it works?!

Website · Post by **murcod** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:25 pm

Murray look at it as a similar mod to a K&N- it will allow more air flow. After you've changed the air filter generally the next bottle neck is the throttle body. Have you ever heard of people fitting a larger throttle body?- well it's sort of the budget version of that.

Anyone who lives in the Adelaide area is welcome to try a throttle body swap to see if they notice the difference.

A few notes on doing this mod:
The factory butterfly screws are very hard to remove (for a good reason you don't want them vibrating loose and going into a cylinder :shock:

) and will be stuffed after you remove them. When replacing them make sure you use some sort of high strength thread lock (Loctite) when reassembling, and countersunk M3.5 replacements are the go (around 8-10mm in length). I also painted the area I filed and over the screws to help hold them in place.

The throttle body does have to be removed and disassembled to do this. The butterfly plate is all that holds the shaft in place. Once the two screws are removed it will slide out easliy. Removing the TPS first is a good idea to prevent it getting damaged. Then you can carefully file down the shaft- only do the portion that is inside the throttle body- NOT where the bushes support it either end!!

Here are a couple of close up pics:

Website · Post by **murcod** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 7:45 pm

Useless computers!

No matter what I try that other photo uploads, but won't display....... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :?:

Post by **rocknferoza** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 10:15 pm

Hey guys

Daihatsu brought out a charade known as the detomaso which had the same 1.6 as the feroza but modified.

I've read that the detomaso has a different camshaft
Different computer
extractors
larger inlet manifold and/or throttle body

I've just recieved an email back from rolin imports but they couldn't help me much with the differences on either engines but they did send me a pic so i've attached it to this messege.

Post by ***BESTY*** » Tue Apr 01, 2003 10:58 pm

The engine is SIDEWAYS :finger:

Website · Post by **murcod** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 8:04 am

Yes, sideways it is..... but it is the same engine with a few extras.

The cam is different and one the same spec can be bought from Tighe cams. The Applause also uses the HDE engine in front wheel drive config with another different cam. The program in the ECU would also be different for each different cam, and no doubt the distributor advance curve. I know of one Applause owner who got a larger throttle body off some model Charade.....

Basically the Feroza has the engine set up for torque and the Detomaso is for top end power.

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