Vitara EFI and forced induction

[jasonmcc]

Hi

I got some single point injection off a vitara recentely to put on my sierra. I have a few questions.

1 x The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) transducer is missing. Where does it normally live and anyone know where to get one.

2 x What is the cylinder looking solenoid mounted on the side of the throttle body do?

What Surge tank, low pressure pump and high pressure pump have guys used that have fitted EFI. I was just thinking of using a VL pump.

Has anyone had experience with this EFI gear and using forced induction?
How did it run and what did you do?

Also what did you use to attach to your throttle body to your airbox/filter as i do not have that part.

Cheers

Jason

[mud4b]

Hi

I got some single point injection off a vitara recentely to put on my sierra. I have a few questions.

1 x The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) transducer is missing. Where does it normally live and anyone know where to get one...IT SITS ON THE FIRWALL. I CAN ORDER THESE FROM SUZUKI.YOU CAN USE A HILUX SURF IF YOUR GOING TO TURBO/SUPERCHARGE IT.

2 x What is the cylinder looking solenoid mounted on the side of the throttle body do?I HAVE NO IDEA....SHOULD BE ON THE LOOM DIAGRAM.STILL WAITING FOR IT TO GET BACK TO ME,BUT ITS COMING..

What Surge tank, low pressure pump and high pressure pump have guys used that have fitted EFI. I was just thinking of using a VL pump...VL PUMP IS FINE.I HAVE USED THESE AND ALSO A FORD INTANK PUMP.

Has anyone had experience with this EFI gear and using forced induction?
How did it run and what did you do?YES MINE WAS SUPERCHARGED RUNNING 20 PSI...IT WAS SLIGHTLY SLOPPY AT IDLE BUT GREAT UP FROM THAT.IT DID REV A BIT TOO HIGH IN THE MORNING TOO.I USED A VITARA POWER STEER/AIR BRACKET TO MOUNT THE CHARGER.

Also what did you use to attach to your throttle body to your airbox/filter as i do not have that part....NOW THAT IT IS NA...I USED 2 STD SIERRA AIRBOX CONNECTING PIPES..ONE OF A LEAF ONE OF A COILY.

Cheers

Jason

[nicbeer]

Hey Mud4B, You used a subi charger right? How much smaller / bigger than a toyo one are they. I like the idea of the vitara brackets.

cheers

[benjamin78au]

most places can help with efi.
Um danny from townsville has a turboed zook so he could be handy to ask , and mark has had a super charger .

any way, i sure they will fill ya in
bj

[mud4b]

Hey Mud4B, You used a subi charger right? How much smaller / bigger than a toyo one are they. I like the idea of the vitara brackets.

cheers

they are slightly smaller than a toyota charger..

[jasonmcc]

My standard dissy is a hall effect type. But as the vitara computer does igintition as well, do I have to lock my advance mechanism in my dissy so it doesnt advance when you increase RPM.


Where do get a Toyota Surf MAP sensor and what model supercharger was used?

Cheers

JAson

[stephen]

Here is some pics of the setup I built. I used a Haltec computer. Running a T3 on it at 6psi, standard internals so far so good. It does not do much until around 2300 - 2800 but after that it great and perfect for hwy use.

http://www.geocities.com/stomczyk/TurboPage.htm



Stephen

[ca18escort]

The subi Charger is heaps smaller. It only displaces 550cc where as the smallest tpyota one displaces 1200 cc. So you have to spin the subi one shit loads faster to achieve the same boost.

Paul

[Santos]

info taken from auto speed

[url]
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2147/article.html[/url]

The suburu

Although fitted by Subaru, the blower is manufactured by Aisin and is coded AMR300. This code suggests it displaces 300cc of induction air per revolution.

It measures approximately 18.5cm in length (including the pulley) and the main body is around 15cm wide and 10.5cm tall.

Then there's the nissan march

This is another small capacity supercharger manufactured by Aisin for Nissan Motor Company. Coded AMR500 (a step up from the Subaru’s AMR300) this is another light and compact supercharger. This unit measures 17cm long, 18cm wide and 13cm tall (not including the mounts and bolt-on inlet and outlet pipes). Again, the outlet pipes measures just 45mm OD but its code suggests that it displaces 500cc per revolution.

The toyota

This unit is a considerable step up in weight and size over the previous Aisin superchargers. Coded SC12, the 4A-GZE blower is 27cm long, 21cm wide and 15cm tall (not including mounts or bolt-ons). The extra breathing potential of this supercharger can be seen in its larger outlet pipe, which measures 57mm OD. We’re led to believe that this supercharger displaces 1200cc per revolution and, in standard form, boosts to around 10 psi.

Note, however, boost pressure in excess of 14 psi can lead to heat-related supercharger failure.

Lastly rice

Price?

The above superchargers were photographed at Adelaide Japanese Dismantlers. Bob Dunn from AJD tells us the small superchargers (Subaru and Nissan ones) typically sell for AUD$195 and the bigger units go for AUD$350.

We’re told that these import

But i have one question

All you need is a custom mounting bracket with an idler and a new belt. Oh, and a re-routed induction system and accompanying ECU mods.

What the heck is an idler.. i know the toyota one has a electro clutch but would this help wit marks idle probs?

[nicbeer]

I believe the idler is what the belt lies on when you tension the belt. Ususally serpentine belts use these.

cheers

[nicbeer]

Forgot to ask.

Does anyone know where to buy these said chargers. Where'd ya get yours MUD4B?

cheers

[SLOGQ]

My standard dissy is a hall effect type. But as the vitara computer does igintition as well, do I have to lock my advance mechanism in my dissy so it doesnt advance when you increase RPM.

The fuel injection uses a diffrent type of dizzy, you should have got it with your injection, it wont run with out it as the computer uses it to see engine position ( TDC ect), you will have to obtain this from whoever sold you the injection system.

[nicbeer]

I have heard they leave the std dizzy in there as it is a electronic style dizzy ( no points)

cheers

[SLOGQ]

I had 8v vitara injection on my old motor and i had to swap mine over. The right dizzy should have a 3 pin plug on it from memory.

[jasonmcc]

So whats the story with my dissy? Do I have to get a new one or modify my origninal. Mark what did you do?

I was thinking of somehow locking my dissy so it doesnt advance then just use it as a camshaft position sensor.

Jase

[ca18escort]

you only need the new dizzy if you want the computer to comtrol the spark. If not you can use the electronic dizzy that is in the zook and just use the hall effect sensor to send the input to the computer for RPM.

Cheers
Paul

[jasonmcc]

Im a bit confused. The computer needs to know when #1 cyl is at Top Dead Center. If you use the output of the hall effect sensor out put for the computer RPM it will be wrong. As the relationship between the output of the Hall effect sensor and #1cyl being at TDC will change as the mechanical advance changes.

[ca18escort]

Yeah but if you are using a throtle body injection setup the small differnece that it makes in the timing won't matter because it will just get sucked into the next cylinder.

The other option is to lock the dizzy base plate and use the jaycar ignition kit that alowy you to program the curve.

Cheers
Paul

[jasonmcc]

I still think your selling yourself short with not letting the computer control the ignition timing. What im after is how to lock the mechanical advance part of the dissy so it wont advance with rpm. I can see how to lock the top plate that the hall effect sensor sits on. But not quite sure about the bottom.

Thanks for your help.


Jason

[ca18escort]

Don't get me wrong I think that you are mad not to use the ignition side of things if you are using the factory computer but lets face it the fuel and ignition maps from a 1.6 aren't going to be optimal for the 1.3. The fuel is easy to change with the Jaycar Digital fuel adjustor but the spark is harder. It is the top plate that has the weights and the springs on it if you lock that the dizzy shouldn't advance as RPM increases.

Paul

[SLOGQ]

The computer still needs to know engine position so it can compute injection pulses..... the sensor in a std dizzy will be the wrong signal. I would realy suggest you talk to whoeva you got the injection off, you should have got the right one in the first place.

[SLOGQ]

http://www.yankeetoys.org/mini4x/efiswap/wiring3.jpg


http://www.yankeetoys.org/mini4x/efiswap/wiring4.jpg

Here are a couple of diagrams to help explain what im saying. I cant be sure, but id say that the injection distrubtor has a diffrent signal to the STD one( if i had my old injection here this would be much easyer). The camshaft signal and the RPM signal are 2 diffrent signals. The camshaft signal will have a signiture signal for TDC#1, as well as a signals for each cylinder. A STD dizzy cant do this. Has anyone made this injection system run with a STD dizzy? Also, can someone with this injection post a picture of the inside of their distrubtor, so we can see what type of sensor it has (hall effect, optical ect.), I cant remember what they look like inside.

[Santos]

hmmm.. is this the GEO Tracker/Suzuki vitare loom diagrams

[SLOGQ]

Yeah mate.
http://www.yankeetoys.org/mini4x/efiswap/efiswap.htm

Heres the link to the rest of em, helped me out heaps when i did mine!
Just some of the wire colours are diffrent.

[ca18escort]

Ok I haven't done it on a zook but but I have done about 10 engine conversion including piazza into a gemini, twin tubo 2lt into a corona, ca18det into and escort and fitted camira fuel injection to a 2lt pinto engine. Couple with this I have a degree in mechanical engineering and currently with for defence and an engineer. Looking at those wiring diagrams only comfirms what I have said. The std dizzy on a 1.3lt zook engine is electronic it has a hall efect sensor that is used instead of points. On a fuel injected car there is an additional wire that runs from the + on the coil to the computer to tell the computer the RPM of the engine. Unless you have sequential injection (Which the zooks don't) the injectors are batch fired. This means that they are only fired once per revolution not as each valve opens. The problem that you are talking about will only occur in sequential inject engines which gernally have an additional crank angle sesnor that will designate TDC. I hope that this clears up your question.

Cheers
Paul

[SLOGQ]

Hey jason, let us all know how you go with this one, im keen to know if this will work

[jasonmcc]

Everyone is got some good points here. I understand that the slightly offset timing that the computer will receive from the standard dissy will not greatly effect its fuel delivery. But will greatly effect the ignition timing as you have the computer and mechanical dissy both advancing the timing.

What I plan yo do is lock the mechanical advance mechanism. Lock the bearing plate the hall effect sensor is on and remove and seal up the hole left by the vacuum advance capsule.

I believe this will work as the electrical aspect of the carby distributor seems to be the same as the EFI except the EFI unit will has no mechanical or vacuum advance.

Will let you know.

Cheers

Jason

[norwestzook]

Hey Jasonmcc, how did you go any updates?