Spray Painting

[brighty]

Tried the search, but not enought time to look thru them all... sooo,

Just wondering if anyone can shed some light on the topic. I'm going to have a go at spraying my old rig... just for a bit of fun/practise before I cut'n'shut the new shell I got in the shed... and to make it look a bit better after all the panel work is popped out and bogged.(not sure when the other project will get going... work and $$$ 1st)

What ratio of thinners to paint do you use??? Any recommenations of types of paint??? I seen the paint they sell in Auto Pro... 4ltr - $100. Is this stuff any good??

I've got the air compressor, and a cheapo spray gun. Not too fussed on a perfect finish, just want an even looking job when it's all done.

I'm half way thru prep work on it... bogging/priming etc. So sometime in the next few weeks I'll have a go at it... hopefully before Easter..

Cheers,
Brighty.

[p76rangie]

If you use acrylic paint, the mix is 40% paint to 60% thinners. It is the same ratio as you should be using for the primer. It is probably better to get the paint from a paint specialist than a auto accessories store. Make sure that your compressor can supply enough air for the spray gun and you know what pressure the spray gun needs to operate at. There is a lot of work in preping the car for painting. It is a bugger if you waste all the good work by using a Kmart spray gun.

[bru21]

i wouldn't waste time with anything other than two pack. acrylic has such a low resin content and takes five coats to reach a decent layer and every flaw shows through. two pack takes 2 coats and you will be surprised what it hides. i use spies hecker. 2 parts paint 1 part hardner and no thiners. spray to a mild orange peel and it will flatten as it dries to a gloss with no need to polish or cut. it is also far more resistant to chemicals as it sets by permant crosslinking. two pack cost the same as acrylic per job (its dearer but you use far less).

i have used all the common paints and systems over the years and nothing is nearly as good.

cheers bru

[Bingham]

i wouldn't waste time with anything other than two pack. acrylic has such a low resin content and takes five coats to reach a decent layer and every flaw shows through. two pack takes 2 coats and you will be surprised what it hides. i use spies hecker. 2 parts paint 1 part hardner and no thiners. spray to a mild orange peel and it will flatten as it dries to a gloss with no need to polish or cut. it is also far more resistant to chemicals as it sets by permant crosslinking. two pack cost the same as acrylic per job (its dearer but you use far less).

i have used all the common paints and systems over the years and nothing is nearly as good.

cheers bru

lisen to bru he is like paint ghandi

[Steve F]

i wouldn't waste time with anything other than two pack. acrylic has such a low resin content and takes five coats to reach a decent layer and every flaw shows through. two pack takes 2 coats and you will be surprised what it hides. i use spies hecker. 2 parts paint 1 part hardner and no thiners. spray to a mild orange peel and it will flatten as it dries to a gloss with no need to polish or cut. it is also far more resistant to chemicals as it sets by permant crosslinking. two pack cost the same as acrylic per job (its dearer but you use far less).

i have used all the common paints and systems over the years and nothing is nearly as good.

cheers bru

Is two pack OK for the backyard painter to use, any special gear needed other than a mask/filter.

Cheers
Steve

[brighty]

i use spies hecker.

Any particular store that stocks this or just rock up to the local paint store and ask for it???

Can you mix up a bit of a batch (paint and hardner mixed??)and store it (to achieve same consistency)or do you have to mix it and use it within a certain period of time???
sorry if I'm asking dumb A$$ questions... but I have no idea of what I'm doing yet... guess I'm about to learn the quick way, huh.

two pack cost the same as acrylic per job (its dearer but you use far less).

and how much is this approx?? (ltrs & $$$)??? To do 1 x 60 series cruiser.


And as I said, I don't really care if this doesn't work out perfect... I'm not expecting it to, just using it as a practise run. this shell will be scraped anyway once I finished the cut'n'shut on the other one in the garage.

[ca18escort]

Bruce,
Have you had anything to do with the ISO free 2 pack paints? They have them at supercheap 4l for $150 or there abouts. I totally agree with what you are saying about the acrylic though I had to do 5 coats on my zook and there are still places in certain light that look a little patchy.


Paul

[bru21]

i have used some of the supercheap paints but would not reccommend anything except for the etch primer (hichem) it is amazing.

iso free would not be a true 2k paint. the paints contain free organic isocynates which may cause a tempory ashma like symptoms. i have not worried to much personally. technically you need a positive pressure face mask etc. spray outside and wear a decent mask - i use a norton charchoal one and it works a charm.

you don't need to worry about consistancy as the paint and hardner have similar viscositys and variations in mixing don't matter too much.

any automotive shop should have it. protec is another good brand although it is a bit thin and requires more skill. do not paint to a gloss it will run in time spray to a mild orange peel. i like to do a dusty coat and then wait 15 do a full coat and wait 15 - 30 and a final coat. the paint tends to hang better with a dusty first coat.

you won;t get much change out of 2-500 on a full spray. two pack primer and top coat in a flat colour will be abot 300.

a top loader with a 1.4 nozzle is the go but a bottom loader will suffice, except you will waste the last smidge of paint (you can keep it in the fridge and use it the next day though with some success.

cheers bru

[brighty]

i have used some of the supercheap paints but would not reccommend anything except for the etch primer (hichem) it is amazing.

What about the other Hichem paints??? Are they decent enough to work with?? Think these are the ISO free paints you were talking about.

you won;t get much change out of 2-500 on a full spray. two pack primer and top coat in a flat colour will be abot 300.

Thats $200-$500, not $2500 .... stupid question I know, but I have no idea on paints apart from what I seen the other day....

[ISUZUROVER]

the paints contain free organic isocynates which may cause a tempory ashma like symptoms. i have not worried to much personally. technically you need a positive pressure face mask etc. spray outside and wear a decent mask - i use a norton charchoal one and it works a charm.

As bru says 2-pack is an isocyanate based paint. Isocyanate is a neurotoxin (can cause damage to nerves and brain). Be very careful if you choose to use it. AFAIK it is technically illegal to sell it to a non-professional painter, and ilegal to spray it anywhere but in a spray booth (with the painter wearing ASBA - air supplied breathing apparatus). It is the best paint though.

I have always preferred to use enamel. It is very old tech, but it sprays similar to 2-pack (2 coats only, no polishing), and it is one of the least toxic auto paints. However even with hardner (many enamel hardeners also contain isocyanates - I let my enamel UV-cure instead) it is nowhere near as hard wearing as 2-pack.

[bru21]

isuzurover is right on the money with the enamel. its the cheapest too. the only real problems is that it dosen't stick very well and sets like cheese. a branch will peel it away whereas 2k often passes without even a scratch. also enamel dosen't like petrol too much.


i ment $200 to $300 for the 2k system.

as for the other hichem paints, they are ok like 6/10 but cost the same as good paint. when supercheap was cheap years ago it was worth looking at but those days are gone. remember its not the per ltr price to look at its the resin and pigment levels (how concentrated).

cheers bru

[Mark2]

I have found a 2 pack polyurethane paint called 'Northane'. Its designed for painting boats but is supposed to be suitable for cars as well. Its about $55 per litre. Only downside I can see is that it wont stick to itself when cured so further coats or touchups require all the gloss to be removed in the entire area.

My spray gun has a 2.0 mm nozzle - any idea if this will be OK?

[nismo_simo]

use a paint brush, it's less hasle

[Hybrid]

i wouldn't waste time with anything other than two pack. acrylic has such a low resin content and takes five coats to reach a decent layer and every flaw shows through. two pack takes 2 coats and you will be surprised what it hides. i use spies hecker. 2 parts paint 1 part hardner and no thiners. spray to a mild orange peel and it will flatten as it dries to a gloss with no need to polish or cut. it is also far more resistant to chemicals as it sets by permant crosslinking. two pack cost the same as acrylic per job (its dearer but you use far less).

i have used all the common paints and systems over the years and nothing is nearly as good.

cheers bru

Bru is a regular joe allowed to buy 2pak? I had expected not to be able to seeing as 2pack has to be used in a sealed booth now with remote air and all that stuff. I got PPG 2pack through a mate which im using now but I'd never want to go through him again. He kept "forgetting" to get me stuff so the sourcing alone took forever. Also when you say to a mild orange peel. Do you mean dont do heavier coats? The lighter ones are the ones I get the lighter orange peel on so I put it on medium to wet and end up with runs/sags here and there. I never realised that the orange peel in the lighter coats may smooth out. I'm painting in the morn so a quick response would be great otherwise I'll just try lighter coats and see.

[bru21]

anyone can buy 2k.

spray one light tac coat paying attention (slightly heavier) on edges and difficult areas. then follow 15 - 20 mins (no sooner or it WILL RUN) with a medium coat (basically a mild orange peel that you see fuse to gloss in a few mins) in 1 direction with enough overlap to be even - wait 20 and 3rd and final coat 90 degrees to 2nd coat also medium thickness. try a scrap spray first to get the feel for it. watch vertical's as they are the culprits as far as runs are concerned.

2mm may be too big its technically a spray putty nozzle but you can try. use no thinners. you can always put on more paint later so just see how you go. you will be amazed what you can get away with. 2k is amazing.

cheers bru

[Hybrid]

Thanks for the response bru.

[Mark2]

Thanks for the tips.

I just bought my 2 pac today - PPG industrial polyurethane. It cost me $90 for 4 liters and that was retail from my local paint place. I also bought 4 litres of special 2 pac thinners ($27) which I'll probably only use a fraction of. I'm happy with those prices - I'd be flat out getting enamal or acrylic for that money. The paint shop guy went to a training day with PPG and apparently the industrial 2 pac is the same as the automotive 2 pac but availlable in much less choice of colors. Taking the day off work tomorrow to rub the shell back and hopefully spraying on saturday if the weathers OK.

[DiddyZook]

There is a lot of good info in this thread. I have been convinced that 2 pack is definitely the way to go.

As far as preparation goes, I would prefer not to have to go all the way to bare metal. What primer/undercoat would be best to cover old paint (sanded back) and a few arears of 'bog' putty etc for use under 2 pack.

[DiddyZook]

There is a lot of good info in this thread. I have been convinced that 2 pack is definitely the way to go.

As far as preparation goes, I would prefer not to have to go all the way to bare metal. What primer/undercoat would be best to cover old paint (sanded back) and a few arears of 'bog' putty etc for use under 2 pack.

[Hybrid]

Thanks for the tips.

I just bought my 2 pac today - PPG industrial polyurethane. It cost me $90 for 4 liters and that was retail from my local paint place. I also bought 4 litres of special 2 pac thinners ($27) which I'll probably only use a fraction of. I'm happy with those prices - I'd be flat out getting enamal or acrylic for that money. The paint shop guy went to a training day with PPG and apparently the industrial 2 pac is the same as the automotive 2 pac but availlable in much less choice of colors. Taking the day off work tomorrow to rub the shell back and hopefully spraying on saturday if the weathers OK.

How much was the hardener and for what volume?

[Mark2]

That price $90) includes the hardener. You get 1 litre of hardener and 3 litres of 'paint' in two separate tins making 4 litres when mixed.

[Hybrid]

That price $90) includes the hardener. You get 1 litre of hardener and 3 litres of 'paint' in two separate tins making 4 litres when mixed.

Ive got the ppg DELTRON system and the paint:hardener:thinner ratio is 3:1:1 So if they are the same you might even get 5 litres of mixed paint out of what you got. Lucky bastard, mine worked out to about $250 but I got 3 litres of primer as well.

[brighty]

There is a lot of good info in this thread. I have been convinced that 2 pack is definitely the way to go.

As far as preparation goes, I would prefer not to have to go all the way to bare metal. What primer/undercoat would be best to cover old paint (sanded back) and a few arears of 'bog' putty etc for use under 2 pack.

I needed to know this too. Do you use an etch primer????

[Mark2]

I'm using a single pack PPG etch primer which is recommended for use under the PPG 2 pack. It can be used on bare metal or rubbed back paint. Which is good because when rubbing back my paint I ended up with a lot of areas of bare metal. It cost $37 for a four litre tin.

Will be firing up the compressor tomorrow...........

[bru21]

i wouldn't bother with a primer unless you want to fill chips etc or are spraying metallics were base color is weak and shadowing will be an issue. primers give a soft bed and let the paint flake or chip. don't ever rub through to bare metal if it can be avoided. if you look at all cars since the 70's they have a green coating that stops rust rub it through and she will rust like an old valiant. rub with 600 - 800 before 2k.

i found the hichem etch primer the best for metal adhesion. better than spies hecker and several other brands. i tested them all for bonding to zinc etc a few years back and none etched or gripped at all apart from the highchem. i used to pain caravan door handles, getting the paint to stick was a prick.

also the weather does not matter as much as 2k doesn't bloom as there is such a low thinners content.

happy painting

bru

[brighty]

So how detailed do I have to be when sanding back small scratches???

How much will the 2pak hide????

I'm nearly ready to spray it!!!! Hopefully by the end of the week just fixing a few *cough* small *cough* dents *cough*

[brighty]

OK,

Sprayed over the fix up patches with primer, but had a bit of over spray. What is the best way to keep this to a minimum?? Other than that, it all went pretty good considering it was my first go at using a spray gun.


Hopefully the weather will clear up so I can get into it this weekend.

[jtraf]

2pak and new paint in general won't hide any imperfections it will only show them up. Your finish will only be as good as the preperation.

In the repaired area's and other places that have scratches you can buy and use "Spot Putty". This is a very liquid type bog that is used for minor scratches and sanding marks where you have done repairs.

Open the tin and apply it quickly as the stuff dries super quick......Then when it is dry sand the area back with wet and dry with lots of water. The only spot putty that should be left will be in the scratches and marks. Note this is only to fill scratches not dents....

My suggestion is spend more time preping cause it will dictate how good a job you get. Ensure the surface is flat and scratch free cause new paint shows all you stuff-ups.

[brighty]

2pak and new paint in general won't hide any imperfections it will only show them up. Your finish will only be as good as the preperation.

In the repaired area's and other places that have scratches you can buy and use "Spot Putty". This is a very liquid type bog that is used for minor scratches and sanding marks where you have done repairs.

Open the tin and apply it quickly as the stuff dries super quick......Then when it is dry sand the area back with wet and dry with lots of water. The only spot putty that should be left will be in the scratches and marks. Note this is only to fill scratches not dents....

My suggestion is spend more time preping cause it will dictate how good a job you get. Ensure the surface is flat and scratch free cause new paint shows all you stuff-ups.

Oh well, not to worry. Guess it's gotta look better than it did after I rolled it!! Anyway, I'm getting rid of this shell in 9-12 months time after I chop the one in the garage, so not too worried about it. I'm sure it'll get more "character" in the coming months!!

Was more so it would pass rego and be less noticeable for Mr authorities to slap a big sticker on it.

[brighty]

2pak and new paint in general won't hide any imperfections it will only show them up. Your finish will only be as good as the preperation.

In the repaired area's and other places that have scratches you can buy and use "Spot Putty". This is a very liquid type bog that is used for minor scratches and sanding marks where you have done repairs.

Open the tin and apply it quickly as the stuff dries super quick......Then when it is dry sand the area back with wet and dry with lots of water. The only spot putty that should be left will be in the scratches and marks. Note this is only to fill scratches not dents....

My suggestion is spend more time preping cause it will dictate how good a job you get. Ensure the surface is flat and scratch free cause new paint shows all you stuff-ups.

Oh well, not to worry. Guess it's gotta look better than it did after I rolled it!! Anyway, I'm getting rid of this shell in 9-12 months time after I chop the one in the garage, so not too worried about it. I'm sure it'll get more "character" in the coming months!!

Was more so it would pass rego and be less noticeable for Mr authorities to slap a big sticker on it.

Damn weather!!! Guess I'm gunna have to do it in the garage then. Hopefully Sunday!!