Sick of the price of diesel !

[allterrain2000]

This is a stupid idea, even if you managed to do it, all you would do is make a small business owner (the franchisee) broke. The refinery wouldn't bat an eyelid.

If you think prices are bad in OZ, in Germany I pay double for fuel. Petrol and diesel here are about EURO1.15/L which at current exchange rates is AUD$2.10. Though here you can buy biodiesel at the pumps which is about 20c/L cheaper than normal diesel.


Hey Brian you realise that the price of fuel in other countries is indicative to the economy. In Germany wages are much higher than Australia, and also people to not drive as far as they have to in Australia. When you compare us to Europe, they also have a very efficient and cheap public transport system that makes it viable for people to take to work, unlike our outdate and expensive transport system. I get sick of people saying how dear fuel is in Europe where not many people drive, but in Australia we have to drive and most families have two cars and the Government and petrol companies know this and are screwing us. Compare us to the US where they are in a similar situation to us economically ie wages per household cost of housing etc and they pay around 30cpl.


Also if you read the story about Mr Deisel he did produce his motor at the motor show and everyone thought what a great idea. Two years later he was on a holiday with his wife in Europe and died in suspicious circumstances. Several months later a petrol company came and spoke to his widow and purchased the plans for his motor then changed the specs on it and produced it to run on deisel fuel as opposed to canola oil.

Cheers
Jase

[grazza]

Three other theories about Rudolf Diesels death:

1. He was killed by the German government because he was friendly with England, just prior to the devastating diesel-powered U-boats were developed.
2. He was killed by a consortium of steam train "mafia" types
3. He committed suicide - most likely because he had a long history of depression.

And about diesel from bio sources becoming unpopular, the prohibition of alcohol in USA caused alochol to become much more expensive so the use of alcohol in bio-diesel production stopped, and moved to petro-diesel. The architects of prohibition had vested interests in Big Oil.

[bogged]

A thousand dollars a week??? What sort of petrol station are you talking about. Do you think that only 20 people fill up there a week. I am talking about banning a servo all together ie no one fills up, petrol, diesel, LPG you don't even buy a paper from them.

so then teh franchisor goes broke, and Mobil, Shell, etc still will charge the same amount for fuel.
You could play your little game for a month or even 2, they wouldnt give a shit.. They are already taking a loss to force the independants out of business, so once there is only the 2 main players owning servos, Coles/Woolies, they can charge what they like... Losing a few bucks wont hurt them, again you have no idea of how many BILLION these companies play with.. not small change servos.

[Bingham]

my boss pays for my diesel thanks boss

it's like fighting the sun coming up i think

[bogged]

theres a thread on exploroz on this.. some places are $1.80 a ltr...

[Snarba]

HEY........ITS STILL LOADS CHEAPER THAN MILK!!!!! OR WATER FOR THAT MATTER......TIME WE PAID MORE FOR IT CONSIDERING WE ARE BURNING THE PETROCHEMICAL SUPPLIES OF OUR CHILDREN!!!! p.s I don't expect this post will be to popular but you gotta think about the BIG picture....cheers

[Bingham]

HEY........ITS STILL LOADS CHEAPER THAN MILK!!!!! OR WATER FOR THAT MATTER......TIME WE PAID MORE FOR IT CONSIDERING WE ARE BURNING THE PETROCHEMICAL SUPPLIES OF OUR CHILDREN!!!! p.s I don't expect this post will be to popular but you gotta think about the BIG picture....cheers

the milk story as im involved in agriculture is a whole nother story with big manufactures paying duck all for the raw product (prices it can barely be produced for and selling for increasing prices.......) deregulation of the industry wasnt good!!

Just another scam! it's all a corporate scam!

farmers getting the same as they did 20 yrs ago with costs through the roof................ Remember no farmers --- no farmers daughters

the same amount will still be burnt no matter the price within reason so thats no really an arguement....

[Rainbow Warrior]

HEY........ITS STILL LOADS CHEAPER THAN MILK!!!!! OR WATER FOR THAT MATTER......TIME WE PAID MORE FOR IT CONSIDERING WE ARE BURNING THE PETROCHEMICAL SUPPLIES OF OUR CHILDREN!!!! p.s I don't expect this post will be to popular but you gotta think about the BIG picture....cheers

Stuff the kids, they don't care about the future as long as they have their playstations & SMS, the faster we use it, the faster the demise of the oil empire dinosaurs, then the electric giants can take over for a supreme multi century rule.
There will always be cars until teleport & anti-grav packs get cheap. Electric cars are here now have been viable for 20 years, sooner they start the change the better.

[-Richo-]

we could of had vege oil running all the diesel engines in the world for the last 100 years, think of the difference that would of made.

[mach289]

thats it i have to start chasing up making bio diesel

there would have to be someone on here that could make a dollar or two building the set up

www.tasmanenergy.com/bio-diesel.htmtmm

[ISUZUROVER]

we could of had vege oil running all the diesel engines in the world for the last 100 years, think of the difference that would of made.

No, we couldn't. We wouldn't have enough spare farmland to grow crops for food, all of it would be growing crops for oil. The figures I have seen are that one year's waste oil production in Australia would be enough to run the entire fleet of diesel vehicles for 4 weeks. So therefore if all the waste oil is converted to biodiesel or veg oil, about 10-12% of australia's diesel fleet could run on it permanently.

[ISUZUROVER]

Hey Brian you realise that the price of fuel in other countries is indicative to the economy. In Germany wages are much higher than Australia, and also people to not drive as far as they have to in Australia. When you compare us to Europe, they also have a very efficient and cheap public transport system that makes it viable for people to take to work, unlike our outdate and expensive transport system. I get sick of people saying how dear fuel is in Europe where not many people drive, but in Australia we have to drive and most families have two cars and the Government and petrol companies know this and are screwing us. Compare us to the US where they are in a similar situation to us economically ie wages per household cost of housing etc and they pay around 30cpl.


Also if you read the story about Mr Deisel he did produce his motor at the motor show and everyone thought what a great idea. Two years later he was on a holiday with his wife in Europe and died in suspicious circumstances. Several months later a petrol company came and spoke to his widow and purchased the plans for his motor then changed the specs on it and produced it to run on deisel fuel as opposed to canola oil.

Cheers
Jase

Who is Brian?

Fuel prices are generally related to the economy (through taxation), except in countries like the US and Saudi Arabia.

Car ownership in Germany is among the highest in Europe - most are 2-car families here too. And lots of people commute 100+ km per day, as a result of the good autobahns, and decentralised population/workforce (lots of small cities). Public transport is a lot better here than in OZ but it is also very expensive.

I probably do the same number of km/yr here as I did in OZ, only now it is more long trips (100-500 km one way) and a lot fewer short trips. That is typical of many Germans. The only big difference from OZ is that most of the cars are smaller and more economical. There has been a range of small diesel cars released that are guaranteed by the manufacturer to average 3l/100 km or less.

And compared to the cost of living and the level of taxation, I don't think the economy is any better in Germany to allow people to afford the high fuel prices.

None of this changes the fact that your plan is naive and wouldn't cause fuel prices to change at all.

And enough with the conspiracy theories. Rudolph Diesel committed suicide. Read Below...

With a mortgage on the new mansion, and war breaking out in the Balkans, the future seem quite bleak for Rudolph. He had been invited to England to dine with Sir Parsons. Martha had left to visit her mother in Remscheid. Before meeting Martha. He summoned his eldest son for a short visit. Rudolph Jr. later states that their time together was "bizarre", his father had taken him around the house and showed him the keys for the rooms. Shortly after, Eugen left for Sulzer in Switzerland. Rudolph on his way to England spends two weeks in Frankfurt with Heddy, Martha, and his grandchildren. Before leaving, he leaves with Martha a leather case, with instruction that it be well looked after, and not opened. On September 26, 1913, he boarded a slow train to Belgium, first class. In Gent, he checked in to the Hotel de la Poste, where 31 years earlier he had met Martha. He wrote her a loving, but confused letter, he misaddressed it. The letter did not reach her until a lengthy detour. On the 28, he wrote to his son mentioning his headaches an insomnia troubles. The next afternoon he boarded the steamer Dresden at Antwerp with the line's owner and it's chief engineer, George Carels and Alfred Laukman, they had a pleasant dinner and Rudolph was said to be in good spirits.

When Rudolph did not meet Mr Carels and Mr Laukman for breakfast, the ship was searched. Mr Diesel's cabin was empty, the bed had not been slept in and the luggage had not been opened. His coat and hat was found neatly folded under the stern railing. Capt H Hubert ordered the ship to search but to no avail, he was reported missing. The inventor's notebook had a small cross under the 29 of September, nothing else. On October 10, a Belgian steamer Coertsen spotted a body in the water, it was left at sea. The effect taken from the body were later identified by Eugen Diesel in the Dutch port of Vlissingen as his father's articles. When Martha opened the bag Rudolph had left for her, she found twenty thousand marks, and financial statements showing all bank accounts were empty. It was evident Rudolph had taken his life.

From Here.

http://www.dieselduck.ca/library/articl ... diesel.htm

[-Richo-]

we could of had vege oil running all the diesel engines in the world for the last 100 years, think of the difference that would of made.

No, we couldn't. We wouldn't have enough spare farmland to grow crops for food, all of it would be growing crops for oil. The figures I have seen are that one year's waste oil production in Australia would be enough to run the entire fleet of diesel vehicles for 4 weeks. So therefore if all the waste oil is converted to biodiesel or veg oil, about 10-12% of australia's diesel fleet could run on it permanently.

Still better than nothing, and if it had been in use for so long the efficiency would have increased through technological developements just like petroleum based fuels have also raising that percentage even higher. If our dependence on oil is that bad then we are up shit creek!

[bogged]

try gettin oil now to make biodiesel... places have caught onto this, adn are now askin more bucks than its worth..

[allterrain2000]

Sorry about the confusion Ben/Brian,

Hey are you sure you haven't gone to Germany to work for a petrol company? Perhaps they are the people who have supplied the figures on the amount of waste oil disposed of per year? Perhaps you are the naive one who believes everything that is handed to you on a bit of paper but of course you wouldn't believe that you could be wrong now do you.

I find it strange that when some tries to put up a suggestion about something that is effecting them that the opinionated, negative people of this world jump on board straight away and try and shoot them down in flames. Rather than trying to push people into believing what you think is the correct answer how about you try and do spend your time on something constructive rather than living in your fish bowl world where only you are right.

[bogged]

I find it strange that when some tries to put up a suggestion about something that is effecting them that the opinionated, negative people of this world jump on board straight away and try and shoot them down in flames. Rather than trying to push people into believing what you think is the correct answer how about you try and do spend your time on something constructive rather than living in your fish bowl world where only you are right.

Glass houses, stones?

[allterrain2000]

Yes Bruce He who lives in a glass house has a very nice view of things.

Also I am not trying to make anyone form an opinion or make them believe what I am saying is gospel. What I was trying to do was moot the idea of us normal Joes trying to make a stand for something that is WRONG ie us being screwed over by the Govt and the Petrol comapanies. If however people are happy with the way things are then good we will leave it at that.

However some people don't seem to want to look at things objectively and just dismiss things as "Stupid" when an opinion doesn't fall into line with what they believe and they are living half a world away.


Cheers
Jase

[ISUZUROVER]

Sorry about the confusion Ben/Brian,

Hey are you sure you haven't gone to Germany to work for a petrol company? Perhaps they are the people who have supplied the figures on the amount of waste oil disposed of per year? Perhaps you are the naive one who believes everything that is handed to you on a bit of paper but of course you wouldn't believe that you could be wrong now do you.

I find it strange that when some tries to put up a suggestion about something that is effecting them that the opinionated, negative people of this world jump on board straight away and try and shoot them down in flames. Rather than trying to push people into believing what you think is the correct answer how about you try and do spend your time on something constructive rather than living in your fish bowl world where only you are right.

No I don't work for a petrol company. I don't think I am biased or closed minded on the issue, however I think I am reasonably well informed since I worked for/at an Australian refinery for a year on a project to control air pollutant emissions from the refinery process units. While there I got a lot of good (and some biased) info. I have also done a lot of my own research since I am interested in converting both my diesels to WVO when I get back to OZ (own a petrol here). The figures on the waste oil volume produced in australia came from one of the biggest proponents of biodiesel conversion in OZ (forget his name - he has written a book). I then compared these figures with the annual diesel usage statistics in Australia.

One of the process engineers at the refinery there told me he thinks all diesels shouls be factory fitted with heat exchangers in the tanks and pre-start heaters, it would then allow them to run on almost any fuel, diesel, veg oil, etc - and also solve the waxing problems with conventional diesel at low temperatures.

I also know a farmer who grows oil crops. There was a company a while ago trying to sell oil extraction/biodiesel conversion equipment to farmers so they could convert oil crops to fuel, but the equipment and production costs on a small scale made it more expensive than normal diesel.

I am no fan of oil companies and would like to give them as little of my money as possible (though that is hard when you own 2 Land Rovers). I also care about the environment (since I spend as much time as I can camping in it) and do not want to see it ruined. However I am also a realist, and the basic facts are that if we all ran on veg oil there would be not enough farmland to grow food crops (unless a radically improved, more efficient production strategy was developed). I would prefer to eat than have cheap fuel.

However, I think as many people as possible should convert to biodiesel or WVO. It will take a long time before we have exhausted the annual supply, then other sources can be found.

However, whichever way you look at it, your boycott idea won't work. The service station owners make 1-2c/l on fuel, the fuel distributors about the same, the refineries a bit more (usually 5c or so - sometimes more if they get a shipment of cheap fuel from a chinese refinery, but they have to blend it to reduce the sulphur content). The rest of the fuel price is excise, duty, tax and the base cost for the crude oil and refining costs. Boycotting a service station and driving it out of business won't change a thing.

[-Richo-]

allterrain2000, i know what your saying and agree with you. But as Ben and the others have said its not really a viable option not buying fuel for a week. If you want to make a difference then start looking into biodiesel production ill pass on any info i have to you to get you started. Then you will have cheap fuel, and wont be giving the oil companies and the government any money, and will be doing your bit to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

I dont have the space nor time to set up and produce biodiesel at the moment, but i am very keen on getting into it in the near future when i do. I even think you can get it from the bowser in Wyong somewhere (too far for me to drive to justify it). If it was available most places at the bowser like it is in the US and Europe (i believe) i would definitely be buying it. But it seems the Howard government isnt particularly concerned about greehouse gas emissions at all.

[roadkill]

Yesterday - unleaded 97.9 - diesel 107.9.
Today - unleaded 97.9 - diesel 112.9.
It can't have been cause of oil prices cause unleaded should have risen too - and diesel is less refined than unleaded - go figure.

[bazzle]

Somehow we need to lobby goverment to take the GST off fuel or the other fuel tax, so it is fairly priced. it is the taxes on fuel that make it expensive.

Bazzle

[bogged]

Somehow we need to lobby goverment to take the GST off fuel or the other fuel tax, so it is fairly priced. it is the taxes on fuel that make it expensive.

I think this is the O N L Y way.. but they are standing firm on the we cant afford it.. since we only have $10,000,000,000,000,000,020,000,000,030,000,040,000,000,009,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,010,000,000,000,000,900,001,020,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.04 in surplus each month.

[skootin]

OK this is the way I have seen bio made in a day 200l batch.
cooking oil strained into a steel tank with airator and heating element (hot water system).
heated and airator turned on.
methanol and potasium mixed approx 30litres ph tested same as pool test I think.
methanol mix added airator turned off heater turned off after about 1hr mix left to settle waste settles to bottom then drained out. Bio diesel scouped out off the top strained again then put straight into the fuel tank hit the key and off you go. A s for so called lose of power the nissan that this fuel is run in would out run turbo's and some petrols. This thing accelerates from 100 to 130 like no other diesel I've been in. If the people making thier own fuel are claiming power loss they are doing something wrong. I can get a more accurate list of ingriedents and procedure if needed . Cost is around 30cents a litre. Methanol should be availble thruogh most good speed shops.

[Pup]

this will piss everyone right off, this is the fuel prices for diesel in new zealand, i was over there at christmas and diesel was a good 20 cents cheaper than petrol then, now look at it, its a bloody joke, we have the stronger dollar, yet they getting damn site cheaper than we are


this was pulled off www.pricewatch.co.nz

BP -$0.832
Caltex -$0.859
Mobil -$0.839
Shell -$0.869

these were the average prices for diesel in the taranki provence, this is a god damn joke!!!!!!

[allterrain2000]

PUP, I agree we are being screwed, you only hoave to listen to the radio and tv and hear how Peter Costello is saying its terrible yet I am not going to do anything about it. In the paper the other day they have stated that we are in the top 3 to 5 countries in the world in the cost of our fuel and I bet we drive a lot more K's than most countries.

SKOOTIN, I like what you are saying it sounds good, a bit more info though where do you get the waste oil from??? Do you have to pay for it and what should you pay for it if you have to? What is the cost of the material for making your own Bio deisel? Also have there been any tests to see if it effects your motor, ie wear and tear etc.


Cheers
Jase

[-Richo-]

SKOOTIN, I like what you are saying it sounds good, a bit more info though where do you get the waste oil from??? Do you have to pay for it and what should you pay for it if you have to? What is the cost of the material for making your own Bio deisel? Also have there been any tests to see if it effects your motor, ie wear and tear etc.


Cheers
Jase

I was (and still am) interested in pursuing biodiesel. I was talking with a guy in north qld who has run his 2 cars on biodiesel for years. He said that biodiesel doesnt have the same power (something like 10% less) but the economy is the same, but at about 20 cents a litre to produce you cant go wrong.

The only obstical that i came across was a source of methanol (used in the process). If anyone knows of a source of methanol i would be interested to know. The only other things you need are sodium hydroxide (drain cleaner) and clean/filtered vegetable oil or animal fat (vege oil is better). He sourced his vege oil from restaurants (not maccas but real restaurants) for free, most places are glad for you to take it away otherwise they have to pay to get rid of it.

The process dislocates the glycerol molecules from the oil leaving you with a layer of biodiesel and glycerine. These 2 layers have to be separated completely as the glycerol will do nasty things to your engine after a while. When i was last talking to others actually making it they would let it sit for up to 6 months to fully separate, but i was thinking a centrifuge might speed things up.

Anyway its been a while since i looked into it and i may be a bit wrong on the process but i would be keen to get together with any one else in sydney who is also interested (provided we can get some methanol), i still have my notes etc here somewhere i got from the guy in north qld, so its just a matter of refreshing the memory.

http://www.biodiesel.org.au check here also for further info.

[TYLER]

from wat ive heard BIO diesal isnt good for ya motor, sure running a verry small % of it wont hurt but, trying to burn more than 20% isnt good for ya piston heads and exaust ports, and hase a drop in power...... so ive been told!!!

[skootin]

The effects on your motor. NONE he has been running this fuel for at least 2yrs in a GQ ute only occansionaly using pump fuel. The effects on your engine is more with pump fuel as they keep dropping the sulhur levels screwwin all your o'rings & seals. I will be visitng him during the week so I will get some more info. Most places will give away their wastse oil as it normally cost them to dispose of it. There are many different types of oil and different places like fish n chip shops have dirtier oil so he has looked around for a good supply and stuck with them after trial and error.

[skootin]

The effects on your motor. NONE he has been running this fuel for at least 2yrs in a GQ ute only occansionaly using pump fuel. The effects on your engine is more with pump fuel as they keep dropping the sulhur levels screwwin all your o'rings & seals. I will be visitng him during the week so I will get some more info. Most places will give away their wastse oil as it normally cost them to dispose of it. There are many different types of oil and different places like fish n chip shops have dirtier oil so he has looked around for a good supply and stuck with them after trial and error.
BIO is the way to go. But I will always run petrol.