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daddylonglegs wrote:Ruff, I am certain that your and Sams workmanship will be first class,and I wish you both every success at TTC. but you live in QLD don't you? And TTC entrants must be registered yes? And registration implies roadworthiness and compliance with home state regulations ?Would you care to share the name of the engineer that will certify the mods on the Pretender and Mog Rover with your fellow Qlders who regularly complain on the General Tech forum about the oppressively restrictive vehicle modification laws in your state? I appreciate that almost every entrant at TTC will be technically illegal, and that the organisers will turn a blind eye to most breeches, but if they are going to do that why continue with the farcical pretext of street legality? How many of the entrants vehicles would survive even a casual roadside inspection by the T.O.G in any state ? I am a long way from being a purist or ''anti mod'' but this TTC thing is a bone of contention for me and until the organisers/promoters cut the crap and enforce the street legality requirement or scrap it altogether I can't take it seriously and will take only a casual interest in the outcome.
Rant over, now where did I put that flame suit? ... Bill.
Bill,
In terms of the modifications that are allowed in Qld there are many extreme modifications that can be performed. Things like body swaps, axle swaps, engine swaps, leaf to coil conversions etc can all be certified in Qld. You can even build a full tube buggy from scratch and get it legally certified and registered.
What Qld Transport has done is to make it hard or impossible for lots of easily done modifications to be certified. Things like body lifts, suspension lifts, shackle extensions, oversized tyres etc are either very resticted in how far you can go or outright banned in Qld - and its these sort of simple modifications that most people complain about not being able to be done in Qld.
Putting a V8 in a Defender, moving the engine back, and modifing the firewall are fairly well straight forward modifications if done correctly. This rig wont be 100% certifiable the way Im going to do it but if it does need to go through a full Transport Department inspection the things I will have to change will be minor (things like front radius arms, tyres, shocks - front radius arms will be cut and welded, tyres to big and shocks too much travel). If Im ever going to street this thing these components wont be in there anyway (the only reason the front axle is being moved forward is bacause on the 37in tyres - so if im going to street it on 33s or even 35s(the 35s would be illegal) the front axle can be in stock position)
Sam
Looking at what you guys are doing this rig is going to need a full 'beaming and rigidity' test done on the chassis. Crossmembers removed, welding on top and bottom flanges, change of location of drivetrain, body mounting changes, etc are all altering the characteristics of the chassis beyond what any engineer in Qld will approve without the full torsion/beaming test being performed.
The rear suspension attatchment points no longer being stock is a drama too in terms of certification of the new links, I suspect they would require xray certs on the welds and documentation for the material strengths relative to proven loadings before any engineer in Qld would approve them.
Im guessing you will probably have to go Individually Constructed route before you will find an engineer that will be happy to put his name on the line.
This all adds up to cubic dollars and many many hours of time with engineer/DOT. So when you say its possible to have a vehicle like this or Mogrover fully complied/legal except for tyres, youre right, but its still not going to be a reality unless you are seriously going this route? I presume you have started with a registered vehicle and are just going to run the gauntlet if you ever have it on the road and leave it at that?
I`m going to say that all the people winging abouts engineers reports are the ones with stocko rigs (or there abouts) and will only ever dream about having a highly or even half modified rig
If you are worried about what an engineer will and want pass you will only ever be a dreamer so stop being a bloody skirt and get out and build something other than a skate board on shopping trolly wheels
Guts wrote:I`m going to say that all the people winging abouts engineers reports are the ones with stocko rigs (or there abouts) and will only ever dream about having a highly or even half modified rig
If you are worried about what an engineer will and want pass you will only ever be a dreamer so stop being a bloody skirt and get out and build something other than a skate board on shopping trolly wheels
Yeah your right of course.
You're sounding very high and mighty there Guts.
Not all people are in a position to build what Haultech turns out for various reasons, but the point being made is that what is safe and what is roadworthy are not always the same thing in Qld, in the context of Tuff Truck requiring the vehicles that enter the competition to be fully engineered and registered (for whatever reason, be it insurance or to control the type of vehicles being entered, that is what the rules state).
As for being worried about what an engineer says and dreaming you've missed the point. Its called planning. Whats the point of sinking thousands of dollars into a vehicle when ultimately you cannot drive it on the road? Unless of course you're building a dedicated offroad buggy etc, in which case you're still probably going to be worried about what the 'engineer' has to say unless ofcourse you're the all knowing one who just shuts up, quits dreaming, picks up his skirt............and pays someone else to do the job.........like an engineer?
Cheers
Daryl
....dreaming in my skirt whilst driving my completely stock skateboard on shopping trolley wheels whilst realising that the whole phallic nature of having been there done that harder, faster, deeper, longer with no real insight at all is just really a bit of a wank....
Um this years ttc rules state that being regoed in the state of origin is enough and engineers reports are not needed, so stop bitching about bloody reports
I didn't realise rego was a formality nowadays....... been so long since I had the skateboard registered since I took it off the road to get the shopping trolley wheels fitted....
If you think Im having a go at Sam or Ruff, Im not, and Im sure they dont need you to be their champion, its just a point of interest for anyone who is trying to deal with modifying a vehicle and still being compliant with Qld regs.
daddylonglegs wrote:Ruff, I am certain that your and Sams workmanship will be first class,and I wish you both every success at TTC. but you live in QLD don't you? And TTC entrants must be registered yes? And registration implies roadworthiness and compliance with home state regulations ?Would you care to share the name of the engineer that will certify the mods on the Pretender and Mog Rover with your fellow Qlders who regularly complain on the General Tech forum about the oppressively restrictive vehicle modification laws in your state? I appreciate that almost every entrant at TTC will be technically illegal, and that the organisers will turn a blind eye to most breeches, but if they are going to do that why continue with the farcical pretext of street legality? How many of the entrants vehicles would survive even a casual roadside inspection by the T.O.G in any state ? I am a long way from being a purist or ''anti mod'' but this TTC thing is a bone of contention for me and until the organisers/promoters cut the crap and enforce the street legality requirement or scrap it altogether I can't take it seriously and will take only a casual interest in the outcome.
Rant over, now where did I put that flame suit? ... Bill.
Bill,
In terms of the modifications that are allowed in Qld there are many extreme modifications that can be performed. Things like body swaps, axle swaps, engine swaps, leaf to coil conversions etc can all be certified in Qld. You can even build a full tube buggy from scratch and get it legally certified and registered.
What Qld Transport has done is to make it hard or impossible for lots of easily done modifications to be certified. Things like body lifts, suspension lifts, shackle extensions, oversized tyres etc are either very resticted in how far you can go or outright banned in Qld - and its these sort of simple modifications that most people complain about not being able to be done in Qld.
Putting a V8 in a Defender, moving the engine back, and modifing the firewall are fairly well straight forward modifications if done correctly. This rig wont be 100% certifiable the way Im going to do it but if it does need to go through a full Transport Department inspection the things I will have to change will be minor (things like front radius arms, tyres, shocks - front radius arms will be cut and welded, tyres to big and shocks too much travel). If Im ever going to street this thing these components wont be in there anyway (the only reason the front axle is being moved forward is bacause on the 37in tyres - so if im going to street it on 33s or even 35s(the 35s would be illegal) the front axle can be in stock position)
Sam
Looking at what you guys are doing this rig is going to need a full 'beaming and rigidity' test done on the chassis. Crossmembers removed, welding on top and bottom flanges, change of location of drivetrain, body mounting changes, etc are all altering the characteristics of the chassis beyond what any engineer in Qld will approve without the full torsion/beaming test being performed. The rear suspension attatchment points no longer being stock is a drama too in terms of certification of the new links, I suspect they would require xray certs on the welds and documentation for the material strengths relative to proven loadings before any engineer in Qld would approve them. Im guessing you will probably have to go Individually Constructed route before you will find an engineer that will be happy to put his name on the line. This all adds up to cubic dollars and many many hours of time with engineer/DOT. So when you say its possible to have a vehicle like this or Mogrover fully complied/legal except for tyres, youre right, but its still not going to be a reality unless you are seriously going this route? I presume you have started with a registered vehicle and are just going to run the gauntlet if you ever have it on the road and leave it at that?
Cheers Daryl
maybee you should stop guessing,presuming and suspecting about stuff you dont know about
No shit......
and he says, 'no you cant take that crossmember out unless you can prove the chassis is still as stiff as it was by doing this test'......
Do you think I'm some redneck simpleton who just happened on this thread and thought I'd jump on the 'engineering/legality' bandwagon?
Now you're telling I SHOULD go and see an engineer, wouldn't that qualify as the skirt wearing dreamer who never gets anything done whilst worrying about what the engineer thinks?
Guts wrote:I`m going to say that all the people winging abouts engineers reports are the ones with stocko rigs (or there abouts) and will only ever dream about having a highly or even half modified rig
If you are worried about what an engineer will and want pass you will only ever be a dreamer so stop being a bloody skirt and get out and build something other than a skate board on shopping trolly wheels
amen mate.
(deep down i know you are both right) and i will have an honest 11 mod codes after this round of mods .
ADHD Racing would like to thank Mrs Bru @ Sunshine Coast Developmental Physiotherapy - www.scdphysio.com.au , Ryano @ Fourbys www.generaltire.com.au Blitzkrieg Motorsport
I just need to have a bit of a whinge first,
I spoke to a engineer about my 60 series to get the mods approved and they were
Chev
Bobbed
Sprung over axle
36" tyres
not that many or anything to complex after telling me the dangers of everthing that i had done
he said
"oh yes it can be engineered for about $850.00 a mod , $3400.00. "
I know its not legall but there is no way that im paying $3400 to get a piece of paper to tell me that it is safe , because i already know that its safe and done properly from my own expeirience, my vehicle is no more and no less dangerous than it was before the mods but i wanted to do the right thing.
if he said about a grand bit more or a bit less i would have glady paid it but $3400.00 they have got buckleys.
What my point is that engineer reports were created to check over incopetent peoples work which i agree with ,
if you have the ability and the knowledge as to what you are doing you shouldnt have to bother with that red tape.
How many jobs do you reckon these blokes have done , having a little piece of paper will not change anything to the strenght or safety of that vehicle , and most likley the engineer wouldnt have a clue anyway ,i work with plenty of engineers and let me tell you sadly an engineer is a very loosley used title these days.
Sorry to go on with this cause its not what the thread is about.
Keep the pics coming and keep up the great work , and its good to see imagination !!!
derangedrover wrote:Looking at what you guys are doing this rig is going to need a full 'beaming and rigidity' test done on the chassis. Crossmembers removed, welding on top and bottom flanges, change of location of drivetrain, body mounting changes, etc are all altering the characteristics of the chassis beyond what any engineer in Qld will approve without the full torsion/beaming test being performed. The rear suspension attatchment points no longer being stock is a drama too in terms of certification of the new links, I suspect they would require xray certs on the welds and documentation for the material strengths relative to proven loadings before any engineer in Qld would approve them. Im guessing you will probably have to go Individually Constructed route before you will find an engineer that will be happy to put his name on the line. This all adds up to cubic dollars and many many hours of time with engineer/DOT. So when you say its possible to have a vehicle like this or Mogrover fully complied/legal except for tyres, youre right, but its still not going to be a reality unless you are seriously going this route? I presume you have started with a registered vehicle and are just going to run the gauntlet if you ever have it on the road and leave it at that?
Cheers Daryl
To get a full 'beaming and rigidity' test done on the chassis is a fairly simple excercise. Getting xray certificates on welds and stuff is also fairly simple. Like it has been said - most of this stuff just costs money.
For fawks sakes - I have just totally stripped a $6000 defender and dropped in a drivetrain and accessories worth over $15000 and Im paying 2 blokes to work on it for 3 weeks straight (plus what its costing me to get the Mogrover sorted for tufftruck) Do you guys think Im that worried if its going to cost me $5000 to get all the tests and crap done.
But back to reality. Im probably just going to get the major things certified and then worry about the rest when/if the time comes. Like I said before - there is some stuff Im doing on this rig that I probably wouldnt bother getting certified and I would just change these bits back if I had to. But basically Im just trying to get it done for tuff truck and then when I have more time I will sort the rest ofthe shiat out.
And I doubt you could go the individually constructed route with this cause it isnt modified enough. Its still a stock vehicle with lots of modifications as opposed to something totally new.
derangedrover wrote:Unless of course you're building a dedicated offroad buggy etc, in which case you're still probably going to be worried about what the 'engineer' has to say unless ofcourse you're the all knowing one who just shuts up, quits dreaming, picks up his skirt............and pays someone else to do the job.........like an engineer?
why would you give a toss what an engineer thinks about a buggy? one of the big advantage's of a buggy is that you don't have to deal with shit like that.
Team TAGATI
[quote="hottiemonster"]there seems to be a few people with quotes of mine in their sig, i guess i am just popular :D or just say some stupid things sometimes :lol:[/quote]
Shorty40 wrote:To all the people pissing and moaning about the legailites of some of the rigs entereing TUFF TRUCK,
What are you trying to achieve ?
Is your rig 100% legal ? And I dont just mean, is it registered and engineered
What are you trying to achieve ?
Do you want our sport to continue or are you only happy if you are whinging about someones elses junk ?
If you dont like it, piss off and buy a pink Charade
YEAH what he said
Team TAGATI
[quote="hottiemonster"]there seems to be a few people with quotes of mine in their sig, i guess i am just popular :D or just say some stupid things sometimes :lol:[/quote]
For fawks sakes - I have just totally stripped a $6000 defender and dropped in a drivetrain and accessories worth over $15000 and Im paying 2 blokes to work on it for 3 weeks straight (plus what its costing me to get the Mogrover sorted for tufftruck) Do you guys think Im that worried if its going to cost me $5000 to get all the tests and crap done.
Nows thats a serious commitment!!!! Wish I had that sort of disposable income!!!!
Anyway, Sam, Tony and whoever else is working on these rigs, well done. I'm keen to see the finished product and how it performs.
To the rest of you wackers who are getting your panties in a knot over a few questions, take a break. It seems if you mention engineer/legality/insurance around here then suddenly there's a 'im more hardcore than you' name calling pissing contest
And when you get your pink Charade, post up some pics But my unregistered/unengineered Charade is more Harcore
you're right, yours is bigger than mine.......
I wont ask anymore questions, wouldn't want to 'start shit up' would I?
Cheers Daryl
Boohoo go sulk in the corner you fucking crybaby
I figure you are either 'whipped' and not allowed to modify your rig or you are too scared Whatever it is, it seems you take pleasure in telling others what they should and shouldn't be doing
You can't just enjoy the event for what it is, can you ?
Last edited by Shorty40 on Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
daryl i believe your questions were very valid and you've actually contributed a fair bit of information about engineering that i did not know. you've also managed to get sam to be quite revealing. if the questions aren't asked, no one will get the answers.
i think we all know the conundrum. basically, if money were no object, anything would be possible. but alas, we all have to compromise. imho, the few thousands of dollars it takes to build a road legal machine would be better spent put towards mods for a buggy and a trailer. but that is just me. it doesn't make a fully engineered rig more or less hardcore than an outlaw one... that's determined by the driver.
sorry I seemed to miss the bit were deranged questions and answers were anything but general enquiries into how this was going to meet the rerquirements of the vent. He wasn't sh!t stirring or being negative etc just trying to find out how it was going to happen.
Maybe if people took the time to think before typing out nasty replies we might all get some great tech out of this.
Not having a "hardcore" vehicle sometimes isn't because you are whipped or not allowed but because you don't want one or can't afford one. Not everyone needs or want a buggy and not everyone buys them either
grimbo wrote:sorry I seemed to miss the bit were deranged questions and answers were anything but general enquiries into how this was going to meet the rerquirements of the vent. He wasn't sh!t stirring or being negative etc just trying to find out how it was going to happen.
Maybe if people took the time to think before typing out nasty replies we might all get some great tech out of this.
Not having a "hardcore" vehicle sometimes isn't because you are whipped or not allowed but because you don't want one or can't afford one. Not everyone needs or want a buggy and not everyone buys them either
derangedrover wrote:Do you think I'm some redneck simpleton who just happened on this thread and thought I'd jump on the 'engineering/legality' bandwagon?
Yep
Oh and if you chat to an engineer you will know who and what can be done and you can then stop bitching about somebody else not having there rig engineered. and if one engineer says no a different one might say yes
grimbo wrote:Not having a "hardcore" vehicle sometimes isn't because you are whipped or not allowed but because you don't want one or can't afford one. Not everyone needs or want a buggy and not everyone buys them either
I didnt see this bit before....................
I bought my buggy, yes ! You therefore, must be better than me, as you built your rig -- woowoo
You say "think about it before you type" pfffttttt did you think about that one ? You thought you would be clever and have a sly go
so stop being a bloody skirt and get out and build something other than a skate board on shopping trolly wheels
But my unregistered/unengineered Charade is more Harcore 
go sulk in the corner you fucking crybaby 
too right grimbo
