Zook buggy ideas - need feedback

[flyinwall]

corolla motors

3K--1200cc
4K--1300cc
5K--1500cc
and then there is the 4A series motors which are 1600cc and they have a variety of heads on offer from an over head valve to single over head cam to double overhead cam and they have the choice of carby or efi on the 4A-F series heads so there is another option (yes they are front wheel drive motors but they have the holes tapped in the blocks for the rear wheel drive engine mounts)

[droopypete]

corolla motors

3K--1200cc
4K--1300cc
5K--1500cc
and then there is the 4A series motors which are 1600cc and they have a variety of heads on offer from an over head valve to single over head cam to double overhead cam and they have the choice of carby or efi on the 4A-F series heads so there is another option (yes they are front wheel drive motors but they have the holes tapped in the blocks for the rear wheel drive engine mounts)

I am sure 4 series engines came RWD (I used to own one)
Peter.

[Gonzo]

corolla motors

3K--1200cc
4K--1300cc
5K--1500cc
and then there is the 4A series motors which are 1600cc and they have a variety of heads on offer from an over head valve to single over head cam to double overhead cam and they have the choice of carby or efi on the 4A-F series heads so there is another option (yes they are front wheel drive motors but they have the holes tapped in the blocks for the rear wheel drive engine mounts)

I am sure 4 series engines came RWD (I used to own one)
Peter.

AE86 also know as a Sprinter

[droopypete]

Thank you.
Peter.

[flyinwall]

yes sorry about that you are correct i just forgot to mention that they came as rwd as well

[N*A*M]

have a look at this: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349757

[DeWsE]

That’s a super cool thread N*A*M! I’m a little confused though, what happens to the steering if the diffs are turned over like that? It’s will get jagged on everything it tries to drive over.

Well it looks like a viable project if the steering was sorted some other way. The Tcase can’t be turned around can it?

Sierrajim this could be possible really cheap!

4k + auto… free or a carton of beer
Tcase with S3 = $1500
Hybrid drive shafts… cheap using hilux and zook bits
Steel = $500
Diffs you have already
Coils like sam’s = $200 maybe?
Shocks = $300
(Or air shocks = $2500)
Placcy seat $200
Tires = cheap what you got?
Brake lines = $100

That’s $2800 for an almost complete buggy.

Or $4800 with air shocks

[sierrajim]

this is what i was originally looking at, only problem is that i want it as a 2 seater. It will be used in a couple of comps until i build the next one

After that it will be used as a recreational unit and if someone wants to have a go in a buggy they can.

I've got a set of 35" claws for the time being, thought i had rims but gave them away a few weeks ago when i though i would not use them

Looking at the 1.6efi, auto, vit transfer, 1.0ltr transfer, 5.12 diffs. It will be on coils to start with just so it meets the budget.

Later down the track if the duals do not work i'll look at the 8:1 gears in a sierra 1.3 case and at the same time air shocks. But the project is about building to a budget with readily available parts that anyone could get or do.

Even though most (including myself) people in Vic are new to the rock scene we don't want people to be scared off by the cost of the sport, the cheaper we can make it the better it will be for the sport in the long run.

[sierrajim]

BTW, that buggy thread is interesting, one that i will follow, but it would be a PITA changing gears, this with a cable shift auto would be good.

How's your buggy going NAM

[DeWsE]

Can anyone answer my question about steering, Coz I am completely confused.

I’m really interested in that thread because it’s affordable. I will never enter any comps because WA is in the bumfark area of OZ. So as a recreational rig it will be fun and different.

[sierrajim]

could you not flip/swap the knuckles?

[DeWsE]

could you not flip/swap the knuckles?

I’ve never really inspected the diff. what do you mean flip?

[sierrajim]

you turn the diff upside down, the steer arm would then be underneath, put the LH knuckle on the RH side and vise versa.

Therefore swapped left to right and flipped them upside down to their original orientation.

[N*A*M]

i think you'd need to cut the balls off and reweld on the opposite side, the right way up. or if you like to think of it differently, basically visualise keeping the knuckles and steering in the same place but flipping the housing and rejoining. the rear steering will be more interesting. the diff centres will have to run upside down as the engine is now midmounted.

[ljxtreem]

James, you could do it with an MQ front, Drill the plug welds, heat the diff pumpkin, pull the axel tubs out, swap them left to right, then put it back together

Mmmm I got the smarts

Mock

[Drewfus]

As far as springs go........think VERY old school....



as in pre 1949......

Transverse mounted leaf spring, with either a pair of long shackles, or, regular shackles but have the spring pack mounted on a pivoting mount, using a very narrow swaybar assembly to control the body roll........


Yes I am serious.

Drewfus

[DeWsE]

Drewfus you always have cool idea’s!

From what I gather you wanna use a shackle at either end of the diff. Then solid mount the spring to the frame. At the same time you would need a triangulated 4 link including panhard to stop side ways movement and to stop the diff getting pushed backwards.

If you have gone to that much effort why not just get some cheap zuk coils

A wrangler rear sway bar would be perfect

[sierrajim]

I would think that there would be a lot of work involved to get the design to work. Even then with the vehicle "bumping" an object the load on the front spring would probably bend it,hence necessitating the need for links to stop any backwards movement of the front axle.

For this reason coils would be less work and more effective, i think??

The height between the centre of the diff and the pivot point would also restrict due to sump clearances.

[N*A*M]

If you have gone to that much effort why not just get some cheap zuk coils

two reasons that popped into my head:
1. shackle mounts are much easier to fab than coil buckets
2. you can modify the spring rate of the leaf pack quite easily

not saying this is good, just thinking out loud

[N*A*M]

an auto fwd engine would be a good option too i reckon

[DeWsE]

Okay but with two shackles of the same length whats going to hold it up. Sure you could get the tension on the shackles right so the frame is held up, but with any side movement both shackles would fall in the same direction so instead of the shackles doing this \ / they would do this / / and the frame would push them against the diff.

Like Jim said as well, the pumpkin would be in the way.

I like the idea though

[Drewfus]

Not difficult at all to do, and there are a number of benifits....
1. if you look at photo's of cars articulating from the end, if coils (or airshocks) you would end up with one side really short, and the other really long, with a transverse setup (especially on that has a central povit point) that is not so.
2. in the above example, when using coils, it is a common problem for the spring to become a problem, in that it usually it is strapped to the diff, and when articulating the spring, if not long enough, pops out from under its locator mount.........(that is unless you have a 'movable upper mount, look at bee bees lux as an example)
3. if fox shocks or big coilovers are used you end up with the upper mounts being in your field of vision, whereas if its mounted at the centre of the trans. spring this does not apply
4. coil springs when stretched and loaded up with large side loads (such as those required on vehicles with large articulation) end up fatiging and failing, or at the least, saging badly.
5. did I mention that leaf springs are cheap?........

As far as the suspension arms/arrangment.....you are not limited to any one approach.

you can use a
1 link (with panhard) see attached photo 1..
2 link (with panhard) see attached photo 2..
3 link (with panhard) like the front of an early hilux
4 link (with panhard)
4 link (triangulated)

There are benifits and negatives with each of the above forms of suspension arrangements, but basically you can use whichever one you like.....just depends on how much fabricating you want to do.....or whatever your prefferences are..

Cheers,

Drewfus

[Drewfus]

1 link.....look at the frontend of an early ford (pre 1949)

[Drewfus]

2 link...

[Drewfus]

For those of you who dont know, or unsure of what I mean regarding 'transverse spring'......

here's an example.....

(ask your spring manufacturer for a 1928 model A rear spring......)

Note: you can mount it 'in front', behind,or on top of the axle.....

As a guide, you can get your 'spring manufacturer' to make you one, to your preffered shape for between $65-80 each....

Cheers,

Drewfus

[DeWsE]

Cool so a two link doesn't move at the diff end?

This is what where on about isn't it?

[Drewfus]

kind of, but it can flex.....have a look at a nissan patrol front end, or a range rover F/E.

Personally, I'd do a 1 link (with panhard), but to pack it all into a tight combo I'd do a triangulated 4 link...

Will do a quick diagram 2 morrow......gotta go.

Cheers,

Drewfus

[flyinwall]

looks like someone likes there old skool hotrods (just like me)

[sierrajim]

Looks like i've sorted the power plant, gearbox, transfer cases and diffs.

I now need to look at the suspension.

Shocks I'll look at after the car is basically done as it's easier to work out lengths etc.

Two questions

1. Coils, i'm thinking wrangler coils as Duncan has used on his car here http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... &start=240

does anyone have any better ideas? i've also looked at Volvo coils but any other ideas or feedback on these would be great

2. What size, thickness etc of steel should i use for the links?
At the moment looking at 4 link front and rear (full hydro steer front)

[DeWsE]

This is a very confusing subject for me. First look at the flex on the front of duncans rig………….. That should help you make a decision.

Why don’t people use zook springs because roughly it’s close to the same weight. Or order some custom one that are one Sam’s rig’s.

IMO wrangler’s are fat stupid and heavy….. with a spring to suit.

PS: at the beginning of that thread ruff comments on a few possible springs that would be suitable