Coil Spring Spacers For RR

[SWAMPRR]

hey just wondering if anyones done this one b4...i just picked up a pair of coil spring spacers from fulcrim and going to splap them in the rear tomorrow ...let u know how i go wit it. They supposed to go into the front or rear of a 100series cruiser measured it all to match the springs.

[Slunnie]

front LC80 spring spacers,

[SWAMPRR]

Success ! put the coil spring spacers in today which raised the rear abou 1 3/4 inches ...personally i think this a better option than body lifting...because its heaps easier and adds solid lift to the springs which helps articulation downward and prevents upward spring travel.....if u want to run big tyres.

Simply took the wheels off one by one and jacked the body up on wheel stands then jacked the opposite side up. then i disconnected the top shockie mount .....poped out the springs, zipped tyred them to the springs to ensure they didnt go missing..and poped it all back in done...took about 1 hour all up to do the rear

looks heaps bigger too !

[TuffRR]

its heaps easier and adds solid lift to the springs which helps articulation downward and prevents upward spring travel

Downward travel is not limited by spring length, you'll find that your shocks and bushes will top out or bind before spring length has any impact so in effect all you have done is reduced the total downtravel available by the height of your spacers.

I'll keep my body lift thanks.

[Slunnie]

Did you mod the shocks and bumpstops to suit?

[landy_man]

Success ! put the coil spring spacers in today which raised the rear abou 1 3/4 inches ...personally i think this a better option than body lifting...because its heaps easier and adds solid lift to the springs which helps articulation downward and prevents upward spring travel.....if u want to run big tyres.

Simply took the wheels off one by one and jacked the body up on wheel stands then jacked the opposite side up. then i disconnected the top shockie mount .....poped out the springs, zipped tyred them to the springs to ensure they didnt go missing..and poped it all back in done...took about 1 hour all up to do the rear

looks heaps bigger too !

no mate.. you have got it all wrong...
spacers should only be used to level a car out... you will have 1 3/4 less down travel with this setup... and your springs will still travel upwards at the same rate... you will most probably now find that your shocks will bottom out before the bumpstops are reached... which will kill them pretty quickly... you will also be using your shocks to limit the downtravel which will also destroy them pretty quick...
As TUFFRR said... I will keep my body lift thanks...
but if you reckon it looks good... well then I suppose you have accomplished what you set out to do... never mind the fact that it wont work well offroad in my opinion...

[GRIMACE]

you will have the same amount of travel and you wont be bottoming out the shock, you cant get any extra travel cause you havnt got any longer shocks.

So you want more travel you can get longer shocks, but this means longer closed lengths which in turn means possibilities of bottoming out the shock (not good).

You also may find that know when the diff travel up all the way to the bump stops you will be overcompressing your spring (maybe, maybe not) this isnt good either (but alot of people do it and have no dramas)

Spacers are usually only used to level out an uneven ride but i guess using them for lift isnt to bad so long as they are secure and safe.

[landy_man]

the shocks will be less compressed while vehicle is at rest... therefore you will have less downwards movement available to the shock when the wheel drops...

[Slunnie]

Soooo,

get shocks that are longer by 1 3/4" and bumpstops that are bigger by 3/4" to 1" and make sure your brake lines still reach and it should be sweat as long as it still steers in a straight line and doesnt vibrate.

[Suspension Stuff]

If your springs are soft, or if you run big tyres than your compression will be unchanged. It will make no difference to your shock on compression. If your springs are stiff (and if you have a Rangie I doubt), than you could lose some compression. Will not effect your shock though unless you get longer shocks than you raise your bump stops.

For extended, if your springs are sagged a bit than you are bringing it back to standard. If your springs aren't sagged than in theory you could run a slightly longer shock. But I can't see it effecting the shock too much because it is usually the shock that limits full extension, otherwise your springs will fall out.

Your total travel is unchanged but you will get less downtravel unless you get longer shocks than you gain a little.

EDIT This statement is untrue for 4wd shocks and untrue in car shocks except monroe sensor trac and maybe others.pm me for explanation In normal driving your shocks works best in the middle so this could be a factor.
You may cause driveline issues (little vibrations) because of the higher vehicle.

Spring spacers are designed to even a fourby up not to lift a fourby so it isn't advised. I don't know if it is legal.

I don't think you have to change the bump stops unless you get longer shocks or if your tyres rub so by the sounds of it, you should raise the bump stops whether you have spring spacers or not.

So in summary, if you changed nothing else, than all you have done is raised your Rangie.

Shane

[DaveS3]

How can you over compress a spring?

Once the coils compress / close they cannot travel anymore, but they normaly hit the bumpstops before then anyway.

Dave.

[Suspension Stuff]

Anthony might be a bit sensitive since he broke a coil somehow.

[landy_man]

So in summary, if you changed nothing else, than all you have done is raised your Rangie.

Shane

and reduced his downtravel by 1 3/4"...

[Suspension Stuff]

and reduced his downtravel by 1 3/4"...

True but overall travel remains unchanged. Unless of course you mod or change shocks.

[Slunnie]

In normal driving your shocks works best in the middle so this could be a factor.

Why do you say this? I was under the impression that shock valving works from piston speed rather than position. For Bilsteins at least this is the case.

["CANADA"]

In normal driving your shocks works best in the middle so this could be a factor.

Why do you say this? I was under the impression that shock valving works from piston speed rather than position. For Bilsteins at least this is the case.

yes and no..some shocks have bypass chambers so say at full open there is all chambers ready to flow into the lower portion (below piston) so then as it compresses it closes the chambers by simply passing the valve by them so you go from say 8 open to 5 open so you get less flow rate

[Suspension Stuff]

4WD Stuff wrote:
In normal driving your shocks works best in the middle so this could be a factor.

Why do you say this? I was under the impression that shock valving works from piston speed rather than position. For Bilsteins at least this is the case.

This is what I was told when for a while I was running shocks too short for my coils. I just believed him. An inch and 3/4 may not make a scrap of difference though. Bilsteins may be different. Mad Landy could you elaborate a bit more if you don't mind.

[Slunnie]

So that'd be shocks like the monroe sensatrac etc I assume? Are many of them setup this way? That was the only one that I knew of, mind you I haven't exactly gone looking.

["CANADA"]

they are used mostly in the offroad racers...ill try and draw up a pic tmoz

but it basicly just increases your compression rate as it compresses..so in thoerie it should never bottom out..im not sure it would have any benifits on a full comp rig but im sure it would have some pros and cons

[GRIMACE]

How can you over compress a spring?

Once the coils compress / close they cannot travel anymore, but they normaly hit the bumpstops before then anyway.

Dave.

I not sure, I was just told this by many. And there was also a link off the old safari guard site with a shit load of info on springs and there diefferences (not much) and it had in there sumwhere that over compression of a spring (apparently genral rule of thumb when the spring is at 1/3rd of its full openned length) is the main cause of spring fatigue and sag
It also went on to say stuff about all sorts of springs and explained that the same theory is applied in lawn mowers and motor vehicles when it comes to springs for throttle control etc etc and yabbered for ages about the stretching caracteristics of them

I was dumb enough to read it all but thought i learnt sumthing about coils springs in the process, if anyone knows better please fell free to inform me as I am only goin by what i read and have been told afew times.

And yes I did brake a coil spring but I think i may have got sumthing jammed in there and compressed on it causae it to brake..... but i will never know, and yes if the theory above is correct then I was over compressing it during general 4wd use.

Cheers
Anthony

[Philip A]

My impression is that the Monroe Sensatrac has a lower rate of compression/rebound, simply by having slots machined in the inside of the tube at about half way, so that on road with light loads it is less stiff and therefore gives a better ride. It is a normal shock otherwise. I have them on a Mazda 121.

I am pretty surprised at some of the comments above. Suspension travel is not affected by spring length, preload etc. the EFFECTIVE travel may be less if the spring binds before the suspension hits the bumpstop. This is undesirable from the point of view of shock. I believe although I haven't studied it a lot , that when the spring binds, the coils can lock ( ie not slide over one another or twist freely). This leaves the ends that are not constrained to do all the twist, hence broken spring.
Why do it when springs are so cheap????
Reagdrs Philip A

[SWAMPRR]

Sorry to hijack my own thread back to what it was originally. but i forgot to mention i have 2" longer shocks and originally i was doing this to prevent my springs poping out all the time but now iv zipped tyed them in too....

it was also a cheaper option to changing over to even bigger springs and allows me two retain some of my lift when i change over eventually to bigger springs as i can transfur them over. also i have a 2 inch body lift i didnt want to add more lift to the body.

Landy man wrote:
no mate.. you have got it all wrong...
spacers should only be used to level a car out... you will have 1 3/4 less down travel with this setup... and your springs will still travel upwards at the same rate... you will most probably now find that your shocks will bottom out before the bumpstops are reached... which will kill them pretty quickly... you will also be using your shocks to limit the downtravel which will also destroy them pretty quick...
As TUFFRR said... I will keep my body lift thanks...
but if you reckon it looks good... well then I suppose you have accomplished what you set out to do... never mind the fact that it wont work well offroad in my opinion...

ok maybe im wrong but :

1. how does my down travel get affected by longer overall spring+spacer length if i have long enough shocks? i think this is a better option than a body lift anyday.

2. im trying to limit my uptravel as im running bloody huge tyres. esier option than putting bigger bump stops in or a bigger bodylift.

one more question to throw out : why would i need to make my bump stops bigger? if i have no problem with them hitting my guards now?

[Suspension Stuff]

You are fine unless your shock fully compresses before you hit the bump stop. If this happens you will sooner or later stuff the shocks. You probably know this already.

[landy_man]

if you put in new longer shocks with the spacers then that is okay, you would not have lost any downtravel... HOWEVER... if you did not replace your shocks with the spacers then you will have lost the 1 3/4 downtravel...
a simple diagram might explain it better...

[Suspension Stuff]

In normal driving your shocks works best in the middle so this could be a factor.

This statement is not true, it won't make any difference at all except with the monroe sensatrac.
Shane

["CANADA"]

In normal driving your shocks works best in the middle so this could be a factor.

This statement is not true, it won't make any difference at all except with the monroe sensatrac.
Shane

or other poupose built shocks

[mavdog]

PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? DOES ANYONE KNOW

[BIg StEvE]

Nice pic Landyman good to see some solid proof!

[trr35l]

please correct me if i am wrong i thought in a prefect world wheel travel is to do with the longest length of shock less compressed length of shock difference equals travel length therefore max travel is gained if full length of spring equals full length shock as for compressed lengths equal ( no point one longer or shorter than the other)so if the spring is droped from its mount by way of a spacer the drop length that is down travel is the same as shock length is still the same just car is one inch higher (tavel may seam shorter but car is higher) up travel would be one inch less as spring bind would come in one inch before bump stop but still one inch left on stroke of shock (eg compressed spring still the same length just one inch lower due to packer) so your one inch less up same down if measured from chasis rail this my understanding of wheel travel so if you have bigger tyres spring spacers could help stop wheel peeling guard off with out the need for a body lift but shock legnth both compreesed and full length should be looked at to see if all this is worth the hassal

my springs fall out at full travel (at rear shock one and a half inchs longer than spring spring sag????) now limited by spring clamps if i remove clamps and put in spacers i will bottom out shock therefore have full DOWN travel with aid of the demon spring spacer springs bind at full up travel on bump stop so will i lose one inch up with spacer i think so

i would lengthen bump stops so as to save shocks on full compression better to hit bump stop than top of shock at speed eg bottoming out quick as in a jump or sudden drop

as forrest gump once said "i am not a smart man" but thats the way i think it all works

[Suspension Stuff]

up travel would be one inch less as spring bind would come in one inch before bump stop but still one inch left on stroke of shock

How sure are you that spring bind would come in before the original position of the bump stop? In swampers position he was limited by up travel anyway so he doesn't care about spring bind, he has to raise his bump stops regardless to fit his tyres in. Swamper has gained because he has a longer shock and it is still compressing till his tyres rub.

For example
An aftermarket Patrol front shock is 306mm compressed and 510mm extended
An after market Range Rover front shock is 325mm compressed and 550mm extended.

You lose 19mm of compression and gain 40mm of extension. All together you gain 20mm travel in the shocks. If the shocks are on an angle as in the rear of the Range Rover than your travel is increased again and would actually be 30mm extra travel.

Swamper before the packers for example would be compressing down to 340mm before the tyres hit and extending to 510mm before the springs fall out, not what Swamper wants. So because Swamper has the longer shocks already if he fits the packers his compression is still going to be 340mm when the tyres hit. But he will achieve an extra 44mm of down travel at the springs because they are not falling out. So as people have pointed out he is sitting 44mm higher so his down travel remains the same but in irony he actually receives more compression. He is still compressing to 340mm before any theoretical spring bind and he is extending to 550mm.

However this is something I am not going to recommend because I am un sure of the legalities.
If I have time I will think of a better way of explaining it.
Shane