For those not members of Autospeed, I attach teh folowing web site reference .
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
Hope nobody has a contrary opinion.
Regards Philip A
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opinion vs empirical fact - air filters
Moderator: Micka
what it shows is that the Ac Delco product is a great product (I sell it in Australia) but you should make sure the filter is large enough for your requirements, and you replace it when it is dirty, not when due in the service schedule (the schedule relies on a perfect world, and recommends replacement more often in non perfect environments).
BTW, VN Commodore size filter flows enough air to make over 300kw at the wheels in a naturally aspirated commodore, with no drop in performance. So will not hurt power in most 4x4's.
BTW, VN Commodore size filter flows enough air to make over 300kw at the wheels in a naturally aspirated commodore, with no drop in performance. So will not hurt power in most 4x4's.
www.CVEPerformance.com
Crushu F150 Buildup: http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic21987.php&highlight=crushu
Crushu F150 Buildup: http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/ftopic21987.php&highlight=crushu
I work as a research engineer in air filtration, and those results look reasonable, and what you would expect from the filtration theory.
I have been amazed in the past to see so many people putting those tiny pod type filters on and still expecting them to have a reasonable efficiency with such a small surface area. Generally the best rule with automotive air filters is to get the largest surface area you can. The larger the surface area, the lower velocity of air through the filter media, and the more time the small particles have to diffuse out of the air. In some cases if the velocity is too low it will effect the capture of large particles (by inertia), however in most cases with a 4x4 you will (or should) have a cyclonic pre-cleaner to remove most of these particles.
The most efficient filter media on the market is the media with nanofibres incorporated in the filter media (nanofibres greatly increase the capture efficiency - which is heavily dependant on fibre diameter in the filter). The companies I know of that are making this are Donaldson and Mann+Hummel (both under 2 different trade names which I cannot remember off the top of my head), however I think this media is normally only for new applications, and may not be available for aftermarket applications - but it is worth checking.
The integral type of cyclonic pre-cleaner fitted to some engines (mostly diesels) will remove 75-95% of the dust load (by mass) before it gets to the filter. So it is a very good idea to have one fitted as it will prolong the life of the filter and decrease the dust load getting to your engine.
Another important thing which most people are not aware of is that filter media becomes more efficient as it collects dust, so it is actually better to change your filter less frequently (why most truck filters have a pressure-drop guage so you can only change the filter when necessary).
The attached graph is for 2 filters from a major filter manufacturer, and shows the efficiency increase with dust load, and also the corresponding pressure drop increase across the filter (triangles). Both filters have integral cyclonic pre-cleaners that remove 95% of the dust by mass before it gets to the filter. Notice that it takes 3-4kg!!! of dust before the filter media reaches maximum efficiency - small changes in filter efficiency mean big changes in the number of particles reaching the engine.
I have been amazed in the past to see so many people putting those tiny pod type filters on and still expecting them to have a reasonable efficiency with such a small surface area. Generally the best rule with automotive air filters is to get the largest surface area you can. The larger the surface area, the lower velocity of air through the filter media, and the more time the small particles have to diffuse out of the air. In some cases if the velocity is too low it will effect the capture of large particles (by inertia), however in most cases with a 4x4 you will (or should) have a cyclonic pre-cleaner to remove most of these particles.
The most efficient filter media on the market is the media with nanofibres incorporated in the filter media (nanofibres greatly increase the capture efficiency - which is heavily dependant on fibre diameter in the filter). The companies I know of that are making this are Donaldson and Mann+Hummel (both under 2 different trade names which I cannot remember off the top of my head), however I think this media is normally only for new applications, and may not be available for aftermarket applications - but it is worth checking.
The integral type of cyclonic pre-cleaner fitted to some engines (mostly diesels) will remove 75-95% of the dust load (by mass) before it gets to the filter. So it is a very good idea to have one fitted as it will prolong the life of the filter and decrease the dust load getting to your engine.
Another important thing which most people are not aware of is that filter media becomes more efficient as it collects dust, so it is actually better to change your filter less frequently (why most truck filters have a pressure-drop guage so you can only change the filter when necessary).
The attached graph is for 2 filters from a major filter manufacturer, and shows the efficiency increase with dust load, and also the corresponding pressure drop increase across the filter (triangles). Both filters have integral cyclonic pre-cleaners that remove 95% of the dust by mass before it gets to the filter. Notice that it takes 3-4kg!!! of dust before the filter media reaches maximum efficiency - small changes in filter efficiency mean big changes in the number of particles reaching the engine.
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RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
I have never seen a test on them but I think they would be extremely inefficient. They would have about the same efficiency as a reasonable cyclonic pre-cleaner, since they rely on a similar principle (inertial impaction), plus they also have a coarse wire mesh coated with oil to allow some particles to be captured by interception or diffusion. IMO they would let most of the really small dust particles (below 2-5 microns) into the engine.popeye wrote:How well do the series type oil bath air cleaners compare ?
just wondering.
I removed mine long ago and installed a donaldson filter housing with an integral cyclonic pre-cleaner.
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RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
the only only tests I've heard of on oil bath air cleaners were only used oil analysis results, and they weren't too flash compared to paper.
Ben, can I copy and paste your answer (complete) to use on another forum, please ?
Its just nice to use an answer that has some form of credibilty (if thats possible on the www
)
BTW, I'm trying to get a Mann oil filter for the 300Tdi, (W 930/20) but no one wants to know about it. Currently using a Donaldson with the Synthetic 'Synteq' media, but it is a touch long and the diff has contacted it, just, on a few occaisons.
I allowed 20mm compression of the bump stop, ooops, not enough....
Ben, can I copy and paste your answer (complete) to use on another forum, please ?
Its just nice to use an answer that has some form of credibilty (if thats possible on the www
) BTW, I'm trying to get a Mann oil filter for the 300Tdi, (W 930/20) but no one wants to know about it. Currently using a Donaldson with the Synthetic 'Synteq' media, but it is a touch long and the diff has contacted it, just, on a few occaisons.
I allowed 20mm compression of the bump stop, ooops, not enough....
300Tdi Defender 130 CC
Feel free to copy it all you want.rick130 wrote:the only only tests I've heard of on oil bath air cleaners were only used oil analysis results, and they weren't too flash compared to paper.
Ben, can I copy and paste your answer (complete) to use on another forum, please ?
Its just nice to use an answer that has some form of credibilty (if thats possible on the www
BTW, I'm trying to get a Mann oil filter for the 300Tdi, (W 930/20) but no one wants to know about it. Currently using a Donaldson with the Synthetic 'Synteq' media, but it is a touch long and the diff has contacted it, just, on a few occaisons.
I allowed 20mm compression of the bump stop, ooops, not enough....
AFAIK Mann+Hummel (Mann Filter?) only make OEM filters, not aftermarket, so if there isn't a filter for another application that will fit, they don't make them (since the 300Tdi didn't come factory with a Mann filter AFAIK).
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RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
Go to the scrapyard and search out a newer truck or car with at least the same power output as your vehicle, and have the filter + housing off of that.
That way you can gain a nice big filter and for those of us who started with oil baths, we can actually get a bit of decent filtration.
My current filter is from a Citroen Xsara 1.9TDi but I'm going to look for larger alternatives when I see how the new engine sits and how much space I've got.
That way you can gain a nice big filter and for those of us who started with oil baths, we can actually get a bit of decent filtration.
My current filter is from a Citroen Xsara 1.9TDi but I'm going to look for larger alternatives when I see how the new engine sits and how much space I've got.
[url=http://www.juracid.co.uk/lr]109 in a million pieces - it shall rise again![/url]
Good point. Filters from diesel trucks will be the best and will usually contain cyclonic pre-cleaners. The donaldson filter/housing used on the Stage 1/110 with 3.9 ISUZU engines is a very good design. The filter has an integral cyclonic pre-cleaner with outer and inner filter elements, and a pressure 'trip' guage to tell you when to change the air filter. However it is very large.fridgefreezer wrote:Go to the scrapyard and search out a newer truck or car with at least the same power output as your vehicle, and have the filter + housing off of that.
That way you can gain a nice big filter and for those of us who started with oil baths, we can actually get a bit of decent filtration.
My current filter is from a Citroen Xsara 1.9TDi but I'm going to look for larger alternatives when I see how the new engine sits and how much space I've got.
On my IIA I have a donaldson housing (ex early model hilux I think) which I managed to squeeze in where the heater would be on a SIII. This also has an integral cyclonic pre-cleaner
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RUFF wrote:Beally STFU Your becoming a real PITA.
interesting article.
i am pondering air filters/housings for my 110 that i have just put an isuzu 4jb1 td engine into.
at the moment its running the filter setup that was in there already, from a normally aspirated 2.5 diesel. this was maybe oil bath (i'm not really sure what that means) as it had an oil feed to it. i am now runnig it as dry though.
unfortunately the large bucket that was used to house the filter in the isuzu wouldn't fit in the land rover.
i wonder if i should now be looking for a different, bigger filter housing, maybe from a tdi land rover or if i should try to get hold of another isuzu filter housing and make it fit.
i am pondering air filters/housings for my 110 that i have just put an isuzu 4jb1 td engine into.
at the moment its running the filter setup that was in there already, from a normally aspirated 2.5 diesel. this was maybe oil bath (i'm not really sure what that means) as it had an oil feed to it. i am now runnig it as dry though.
unfortunately the large bucket that was used to house the filter in the isuzu wouldn't fit in the land rover.
i wonder if i should now be looking for a different, bigger filter housing, maybe from a tdi land rover or if i should try to get hold of another isuzu filter housing and make it fit.
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