Vitara tyre and spacers question

[Eddy]

Our 94 JX Vitara (lwb) is near due for new rubber goods, and I wouldn't mind going to 235/75 x 15 on sunnies.

Q1 - Will they fit?

Q2 - if not how much body or suspension lift will I need?

[kimclive]

Hi,

At risk of sounding like a search Nazi, try a search. This subject has some history.

The short answer I believe is yes, but I havent tried it (Chickened out at the last minute). Your rims need to be 15x7 with enough offset (-13mm?) to stop them rubbing.

I think they will stick out of the guards though. I just had a look at my 215/75/15s and they are just inside, but it depends a lot on your rims.

Cheers

Clive (by no means an expert!)

[Eddy]

thanks for that clive
done a search now and seems they'd go ok .......sort of....

[SiKiD_01]

if you've got 15x6" sunnies (min) then go for it. i had that size on standard zook 15x5.5, and they were good.

standard vit rims might rub on full lock either left or right, but you can live with it.

also depends if you abide by the law. or not.

so, yes they will fit.

and a 1" coil spacer at each corner will also help too. and cheap 1" lift.

[Eddy]

........????...........law??? ......what's one of them??

[SiKiD_01]

apparently you cant have 235's on 5.5" rims, min required is 6".

and some states wont allow for certain tyre size increases. (i dont know this for sure tho)

and if they stick out of the guards, u need to get some flares. my 235's didnt stick out of the guards, no flares, my 31"s stuck out about half inch or something, still passed pits but was advised of putting some flares on.

flares are cheap, go to a foam and rubber shop, and cut what ever length you need. they have 25mm, 50mm, and 75mm widths i think.

i have 75mm on, and they even cover my 33"s.

i didnt notice any power drop with going to 235's, so u should be good. you'll notice with 30"s and 31"s for sure.

[Beastmavster]

apparently you cant have 235's on 5.5" rims, min required is 6".

Minimum recommended rim size. They do fit though, but it's not recommended.

and some states wont allow for certain tyre size increases. (i dont know this for sure tho)

This is true.

and if they stick out of the guards, u need to get some flares. my 235's didnt stick out of the guards, no flares, my 31"s stuck out about half inch or something, still passed pits but was advised of putting some flares on.

Should fit without lift but coil spacers are cheap and therefore highly recommended.

[kimclive]

Should fit without lift but coil spacers are cheap and therefore highly recommended.

You got my attention! How much is cheap? (ballpark)

Would I need longer shocks too if I put coil spacers in?

Tks

Clive

[SiKiD_01]

ok, coil spacers range in size and price.

smallest spacer is 15mm, for levelling out forward or rearward rake, or old sagging suspension, or extra weight of steel bars/winches. (these can apply to all sizes)

then theres a 25mm - 30mm one, = to 1", most common i think. this is what i have, brand is super pro, colour is blue, and very good. i'm happy with how they have held up. these also cost me $25 each.

then you have jeep ones, for a TJ i think, which come in a 2" or 50mm. not sure on pricing, and are also available from the USA.

you can get custom sizes made up to suit. most are hard plastic, like a polyurethane or something, but some can be aluminium, or steel if you want. and also, try to keep the original coil rubber seats, these are needed.

i got custom 60mm ones made up.

anything less than, say, 1.5", should be good with out new shocks, although upgrading the rear shocks are a good idea.

anything more, then you come accross some gremlins that make things hard again. from 2" up, and CVs become an issue, 3" up, CVs will be an issue, and rear ball joint. shocks and struts may not be suited travel wise.

[kimclive]

theres a 25mm - 30mm one, = to 1", most common i think. this is what i have, brand is super pro, colour is blue, and very good. i'm happy with how they have held up. these also cost me $25 each.
...
anything less than, say, 1.5", should be good with out new shocks, although upgrading the rear shocks are a good idea.

What I had in mind was about 50mm of body lift and 25mm of suspension lift.

What do you think?

Clive

[SiKiD_01]

sound like a plan KC, 2" BL is max without major mods.

1" coil spacer should be ok for the time being. or until funds come in for the calmini 3", or similar.

while your putting the 1" coil spacers in, you can flip the front strut mount to 'unlock' an extra 1" or so of down travel. with the front coils as stiff as they are, they hardly ever compress fully to bottom the strut out.

[Beastmavster]

If you do the front strut mount flip you gain about 30mm of extension. About 40mm from OME fronts.

Around 60mm seems to be the safe maximum extra droop before front CV's start panicking. Strut top flip and OME's is pushing it. Ome's and a big spacer (can buy 50mm spacers relatively easily) is too much.

Rear can definately use more travel even in stock form and can probably go to about 530-550mm extended with coil spacers with no dramas.

All in all - coil spacers should be about $100-150, strut top flip is about $6 worth of bolts, rear shocks (pair) maybe $100-150.

Sorted

Body lift of 1" (25mm) is easy - almost 0 mods (I had to ditch that stupid rubber gearshift boot). 50mm needs a lot more work. HDPE Body lift + dropsaw is probably gonna be like $100 more.


Can squeeze about 35mm in max on standard studs.

1" body lift + 30mm coil spacer will clear 30"s easy.

I actually went back to stock springs and coil spacers for better ride than aftermarket springs - my end layout was 30mm spacers + 30mm body lift.

[kimclive]

Body lift of 1" (25mm) is easy - almost 0 mods (I had to ditch that stupid rubber gearshift boot).

Where do I get 25mm body lift spacers?

Cheers

Clive

[SiKiD_01]

i'm not familiar with syd (i think thats where you are) but try the 4wd specialists places 1st, suspension places dont recommend them, or sell them at a higher price than they are actually worth. (in other words, sus places rip ya off, depending)

[Beastmavster]

Failing that you can get an aluminum place like capral to make them for you, but normally there's a minimum cutting length of about 30mm.

If you have a dropsaw you can buy a roll of HDPE anyway (dont try this at home with aluminium though).

[kimclive]

I feel like the newby I am to all this!

So High Density Polyethylene will do the job?

What type of supplier sells it? (A quick Google search was negative)

[Beastmavster]

Any good bearing shop (which excludes half of them up here) or many specialist 4wd shops (those that dont try and sell you a bodylift kit for $1000).

Of course if you were doing a bigger lift then some of the $1000 is justified in brakelines and stuff like that... but thats another story.

[kimclive]

Great work, Thank Guys,

One last question.

If I raise the suspension by 30mm all round with coil spacers, do I need to get a wheel alignment?

Tks

Clive

[Beastmavster]

Yes... and no.... raising the suspension by any means (coil spacers or springs) will require a front end alignment. Wheel alignment will not change (that's the wheel and tyres themselves) but you'll need to do it with your new wheels and tyres when they arrive.

[SiKiD_01]

a front end alignment should be done when rotating tyres, or at major services. i know i put my front end out of alignment a bit when off roading, so it pays to get it in check.

and also if you want your new tyres to last their time. by keeping good tyre pressures, and a good front end alignment, your tyres should wear evenly.

[Eddy]

Egg-sell-entt !!

Thanks for all this dudes!, all good.

And thanks for askin all those questions for me kimclive
saved me heaps of typing

[kimclive]

My pleasure Eddy,

Sorry for hijacking your thread to ask all those suspension questions.

I am pleased that it helped you as well.

I will advise as my 5dr Vitara gets taller.

Cheers

Clive

[SiKiD_01]

well, its not really a tyre question anymore, but more so coil spacers.

when putting coil spacers in, you will need to pry the rubber coil seat out, then put the coil spacer in. make sure you do this, other wise the coil will not seat properly, and will wear the spacer out quicker. this is on the top mounts only, front and rear. (refer to pics)

on most coil spacers, there is a side which has a rounded edge, this goes up first.

rear is a piece of cake. undo lower shock mounts, (or remove shocks if you have new ones) jack the rear up from the diff centre, make sure you jack it up pretty high, dont forget to chock front tyres, and then support chassis rails (both sides) with car stand, or jack stands, or some big besa blocks, and then lower diff down. you should be able to take the coils out now, try taking the coil out from the bottom 1st. the top has a bumpstop that will get in the way.

you might even need to stand on the wheel of that side when you go to put the spacer and coil back in. make sure the coil seats properly, both on the upper and lower mounts. then slowly jack the diff up again until you can take the car stands out again, and lower car back down.

maybe take a measurement of before and after spacers to make sure all is even and good. also, keep an eye out for the rear brake hose, may be tight, but make sure it doesnt pull out. and also, watch for the diff breather too on vitaras, they are attached to the crossmember in front of the fuel tank. this might need disconnecting.

when done, connect the diff breather back up, if you dont have one, now would be a good time to put one in, and on the front too. bolt the lower shock mount back up and you're done.


the front is a bit more difficult, and more care is needed. you can do one side at a time, which will be more stable.

there are numerous ways to do the front, by i have found, for coils and spacers, that un-doing the lower ball joint on the lower arm is easiest. so, hand brake on, chock the back wheels, and jack the front from either arm, depending on which side you do first. remove front wheel and tyre, then support the car with a car stand on the chassis rail.

then with the chassis supported, and the jack under the arm, undo the 3 ball joint bolts. this may need a little persuasion to get the ball joint out of the arm.

lower the arm slowly with the jack, keeping in mind, that the front coil is still under extreme pressure, and that it will hurt you bad is it decides to spring out. just lower the arm slowly and you will be alright. you might need to tap the ball joint out when the strut is fully extended.

when the ball joint is out, lower the arm some more, and most times, the arm will be low enough for the coil spring to be taken out. BUT BE CAREFUL.

now, with the coil spacer in, the rubber coil seat too, put the coil back in, and lift the arm back up slowly, making sure everything seems ok. then its the reverse of what ever you did.

line up the ball joint bolts, and jack the arm up until they are in place. make sure they seat properly too. then do the bolts back up, and continue to lift the arm until you are able to put the wheel and tyre back on.

take out the car stand, and lower car. also take measurements too, as the front will be different to the back. as in, a 1" spacer in the back, will lift 1", but wth a 1.5:1 ration on the front, the 1" spacer will give about 1.5" of lift. for a 2" coil in the front, a 3" lift is about right, and so on. this is due to the IFS arm set up.

repeat for the other side front, and you should be sitting a bit taller with more room for those muddies.

be careful when working with or around coil springs, as they can hold a lot of pressure you are unaware of.

if anyone else has anything to add, or any other tips, that i may have left out, please post up.

hope this helps.
Steve

[kimclive]

Steve,

Awesome set of detailed instructions!

Thanks

Clive

[SiKiD_01]

oh yeah, after you've take it for a drive around the block, make sure you get the front wheels aligned as soon as you can. thats the thing with IFS, and lift or lowering requires the alignment to be adjusted also.

you shouldn't have any camber issues with the 1" coil spacers.

thanks KC.

cheers,
Steve

[kimclive]

Hi All,

Following the advice in this thread, I have put 30mm coil spacers in my Vitara.

Excellent instructions SiKiD!

Before spacers
Front right 775mm
Front left 785mm
Rear right 785mm
Rear left 795mm

After spacers
Front right 830mm
Front left 835mm
Rear right 825mm
Rear left 830mm

I suspect it will settle a little over the next few days.

I will get a wheel alignment in the morning just to be sure.

Thank you all for your assistance.

Cheers

Clive

[SiKiD_01]

looks pretty good now.

and yeah, i forgot to mention that you may need to dis-connect the sway bar for installation of the spacers.

i took my sway bar off way back when. you can leave it on and consider taking it off when you get some OME struts and coils. i dont think you can really tell if its there or not anyway.

Hey clive, did you also do the strut mount flip too?

[kimclive]

No strut flip yet. A bit more time and I'll get it done.

[Beastmavster]

Removal or swaybars doesnt harm handling much on a light car (mine had none with 31's and still handled way better than my Maverick did stock) but it does hamper your legality somewhat.

With some longer rear shocks it's something you'll want to do. You can get longer swaybar links or disconnects if you want to (i'm running disconnects on the front of the Mav for handling reasons).


You'll have to give us some new measurements when it's settled a bit but I'm sure you'll show substantially more front lift than rear lift at the end of it all.

Overall looks very good, very neat. Give us your (current) feedback on the difference to drive.

[kimclive]

Hi,

The handling seems exactly the same. The suspension is almost new and very hard so the lift hasn't been too dramatic.

I went to the wheel alignment place (Pro-Axle) and they are going to do it tomorrow. It needs adjustable camber bolts as it is sitting on the outside of the tyres. It may also have some spring lift.

Does anyone know the standard height (top centre of wheel arch) for a Vitara?

Am I correct in assuming that there is no point in flipping the strut while the standard sway bar stays connected?

More fun playing with it tomorrow. I found a SWB JLX at my local wrecker today so I have a ready source of parts!

Cheers

Clive