need clutch/flywheel for 1PZ

[smithie]

G'day guys,
I'm new to this forum, having only owned my Landcruiser for a few months now, and need some help with it...!!

My clutch has just let go and when I've droped the gearbox i found a really strange dual-mass flywheel set-up.

My LC isn't that common, its a 1990 PZJ70 SWB 70 series crusier they have a 1PZ 3.5lt 5 cylinder version of the 1HZ, coupled to a R151F gearbox (out of 100/79 series landcruisers and 2000+ model SR5 TD hilux's)

I have found that exedy make a rigid flywheel conversion kit (which is not cheap) but i'd like to see if i can use stock 79 series parts (or a combination of LC parts) to convert my flywheel and clutch setup to a rigid flywheel setup, which would be a little more robust and simple. (and easier to obtain parts if the clutch goes on a 4wd'ing trip)

My flywheel has 8 bolts that attach it to the crank, i'm not 100% sure but i think a 1HZ has 6? Anyone know for sure?

Anyone with any ideas/suggestions or know of anyone familiar with the 5 cyl 1PZ??

Cheers
Smithie
183412@swin.edu.au

[MUSS]

thort the run the same gear box and fly wheel as my bj73 middy same gear box and clutch that sits behind a 1hz etc

[dumbdunce]

would a 1HZ flywheel work? I have one of those, I'll measure it up for you if you want. where are you? it's a heavy bit of gear to ship anywhere.

[smithie]

Thanks dumbdunce, if you could grab some measurements that'd be greatly appreciated.

I'm basically hoping to use a 1HZ flywheel coupled with a clutch/pressure plate that mates to my R151F 'box, possibly out of a 79 or 100 series cruiser.

i'm located in Bendigo Victoria, but am actually going to be in sydney next week..

Muss, up until last monday i was expecting to find a normal flywheel and clutch setup, coupled to the same g'box as in other bj70/3 cruisers, but it it looks like toyota enjoys being difficult!

The most surprising thing is that the R151F gearbox wasnt seen in australia until almost 10 years after my pzj70 was manufactured, wonder if toyota used the pzj70 as a test vehicle for the 'box before widespread adaptaion into other 4x4's?

[dumbdunce]

Thanks dumbdunce, if you could grab some measurements that'd be greatly appreciated.

I'm basically hoping to use a 1HZ flywheel coupled with a clutch/pressure plate that mates to my R151F 'box, possibly out of a 79 or 100 series cruiser.

i'm located in Bendigo Victoria, but am actually going to be in sydney next week..

Muss, up until last monday i was expecting to find a normal flywheel and clutch setup, coupled to the same g'box as in other bj70/3 cruisers, but it it looks like toyota enjoys being difficult!

The most surprising thing is that the R151F gearbox wasnt seen in australia until almost 10 years after my pzj70 was manufactured, wonder if toyota used the pzj70 as a test vehicle for the 'box before widespread adaptaion into other 4x4's?

R151F is in LJ70 from 1985 and turbo diesel and V6 hiluxes from mid - late 80's, long before your PZJ7x

will measure up the flywheel tomorrow morning and post the results - centre hole diameter, PCD of mounting holes, diameter and number of mounting holes, anything else? want me to weigh it?

cheers

Brian

[beanz2]

I have found that exedy make a rigid flywheel conversion kit (which is not cheap)

I'm really curious about this. Do you have any more info about it? I've looked at Exedy's website but I found no references. Thanks.

Dave

[dumbdunce]

you might be in luck...

1HZ flywheel: (toyota P/N 13405-17040)
thickness = 38mm
thickness of mounting pad = 12.5mm
ring gear teeth = 117 (or thereabouts, I counted twice)

mounting holes:
PCD 77.0mm
diameter 12.4mm (to suit 12mm bolts)
number of holes: 8
crank spigot diamter: 50.0mm (ie the big hole in the middle of the flywheel)

does that look like it will match up?

cheers

Brian

[smithie]

thanks for the reply brian,
only knew limited info about the R151F 'box from what toyota were telling me, seems a long time to be using a gearbox, 20 years from what your saying!

Anyway..

I measured my dual-mass flywheel, it has all the same dimensions as the 1HZ except..
The total thickness is 52mm
The mounting pad thickness is 26mm

So it looks as though a 1hz would fit on except it'd be a bit thinner, I wonder if my input shaft is a little bit shorter than that of a 79 series (or whether my bellhousing is longer?) if its a shorter input shat I could swap it with one from a 79 series and everything should line up, if my bellhousing is longer, I dunno what I can do??

I also believe that my clutch was a 260mm one, whereas 75 series cruisers all had 275mm, not 100% whether that was the same for the 78/9 series, although I dont mind putting in a larger clutch if I have to.

Could I get you to grab a couple of other measurements so that I can see if my pressure plate will fit?

Dimensions on flywheel face:
PCD, no. and diam of dowel pins
PCD, no. and diam of bolt holes
Diam of flywheel face
Diam of recess in centre of flywheel

horizontal distance from end of crank to ring gear teeth (ie offset of ring gear teeth)
thickness of ring gear teeth


Dave,
I found out about the rigid flywheel conversion kit from exedy by going into some clutch specialists and asking them what could be done to run a solid clutch, the just looked up their exedy book and qouted me in the vicinity of $1200 for the kit, hence why I'm looking into using standard cruiser parts.
I'd also heard of 4wd mechanics performing this conversion before so have sort of followed the wind with this hunch..

I feel as if i'm getting closer to the truth though! I guess we'll wait and see..

[beanz2]

I wonder if my input shaft is a little bit shorter than that of a 79 series (or whether my bellhousing is longer?) if its a shorter input shat I could swap it with one from a 79 series and everything should line up, if my bellhousing is longer, I dunno what I can do??


Dave,
I found out about the rigid flywheel conversion kit from exedy by going into some clutch specialists and asking them what could be done to run a solid clutch, the just looked up their exedy book and qouted me in the vicinity of $1200 for the kit, hence why I'm looking into using standard cruiser parts.
I'd also heard of 4wd mechanics performing this conversion before so have sort of followed the wind with this hunch..

Thanks for the answer, smithie. I don't own a 1PZ, I'm just curious

I looked up my part books and the input shafts are different between the PZJ70 and the HZJ79, though I have no idea if the difference is only in the length or in some other dimension. Both bellhousings are available separately from the gearbox so I figured they can be swapped, but why not use a bellhousing and gearbox from an HZJ79?

Does the 1PZ flywheel have any counterweight on it? Is it indexed to the crankshaft? Some engines need a counterweighted flywheel.

Dave

[treebruiser]

see smithie, told you dumbdunce could point you in the right direction!

[smithie]

Thanks treebruiser! you were correct!

No problems dave, the 1Pz is acurious beast indeed, but so far it has served me well..if only i can construct a clutch out of cruiser components that are a little more common....

The guys at the local toyota dealer have been quite helpful and have also looked up some part numbers etc for me, so i was aware that the part numbers for bellhousing/input shaft/pressure plate etc were different between the PZJ7x and HZJ7x cruiser, however they also said that it could just be that the parts are allocated a different number, they have no way of knowing if the parts are actually identical...

At this stage it looks as though I may be able to use 79 series clutch and pressure plate mated to a 1HZ flywheel, however as the 1HZ flywheel is thinner than my PZJ70 dual-mass terror, it may need a spacer behind it or, a bellhousing off a 79 series, although that would mean altering my gearbox position and hence driveshaft lengths..

I must keep in perspective the whole point to the excercise and that is to:
a) fix my clutch and get my car working reliably
b) minimise cost in doing so (hopefully through using stock/secondhand/reco'd cruiser parts)
c) ensure that future clutch issues can be rectified quickly and easily, especially if i'm 4wd'ing a million miles from home.. where the likely hood of the local mechanic having a clutch for a PZJ70 is fairly slim..

As for the counterweight issue, i dont believe that it the dual-mass flywheel has anything to do with counterweighting my engine, as the flywheel is not indexed to the crankshaft. It is basically in a 2 piece flywheel with the front connected to the back through some plates, and springs, which appear only to have the effect of damping vibration and quietening drivetrain rattle.
this may be due to the 5 cyl. having an odd firing sequence.

However I dont believe that fixing a rigid flywheel would be detrimental to the vehicles performance or reliability, as:
a) Exedy, a reputable japanese based clutch company, manufacture a rigid flywheel kit specifically for my vehicle (presumably with some level of product testing, oh and they also make rigid flywheel conversion kits for jap import surfs etc that also have dual mass flywheels)
b) I've heard of mechanics swapping the pzj70 clutch setup for normal cruiser parts with no side effects
c) All my research so far has indicated that a dual mass flywheels role is primarily to quieten and reduce vibrations (NVH) hence why they are fitted in a lot of luxury cars..
d) hopefully i'm correct with a, b and c.. otherwise...

Geez... turned into a bit of a novel didnt it..

Thanks again guys.
Daniel

[smithie]

Thanks treebruiser! you were correct!

No problems dave, the 1Pz is acurious beast indeed, but so far it has served me well..if only i can construct a clutch out of cruiser components that are a little more common....

The guys at the local toyota dealer have been quite helpful and have also looked up some part numbers etc for me, so i was aware that the part numbers for bellhousing/input shaft/pressure plate etc were different between the PZJ7x and HZJ7x cruiser, however they also said that it could just be that the parts are allocated a different number, they have no way of knowing if the parts are actually identical...

At this stage it looks as though I may be able to use 79 series clutch and pressure plate mated to a 1HZ flywheel, however as the 1HZ flywheel is thinner than my PZJ70 dual-mass terror, it may need a spacer behind it or, a bellhousing off a 79 series, although that would mean altering my gearbox position and hence driveshaft lengths..

I must keep in perspective the whole point to the excercise and that is to:
a) fix my clutch and get my car working reliably
b) minimise cost in doing so (hopefully through using stock/secondhand/reco'd cruiser parts)
c) ensure that future clutch issues can be rectified quickly and easily, especially if i'm 4wd'ing a million miles from home.. where the likely hood of the local mechanic having a clutch for a PZJ70 is fairly slim..

As for the counterweight issue, i dont believe that it the dual-mass flywheel has anything to do with counterweighting my engine, as the flywheel is not indexed to the crankshaft. It is basically in a 2 piece flywheel with the front connected to the back through some plates, and springs, which appear only to have the effect of damping vibration and quietening drivetrain rattle.
this may be due to the 5 cyl. having an odd firing sequence.

However I dont believe that fixing a rigid flywheel would be detrimental to the vehicles performance or reliability, as:
a) Exedy, a reputable japanese based clutch company, manufacture a rigid flywheel kit specifically for my vehicle (presumably with some level of product testing, oh and they also make rigid flywheel conversion kits for jap import surfs etc that also have dual mass flywheels)
b) I've heard of mechanics swapping the pzj70 clutch setup for normal cruiser parts with no side effects
c) All my research so far has indicated that a dual mass flywheels role is primarily to quieten and reduce vibrations (NVH) hence why they are fitted in a lot of luxury cars..
d) hopefully i'm correct with a, b and c.. otherwise...

Geez... turned into a bit of a novel didnt it..

Thanks again guys.
Daniel

[dumbdunce]

Dimensions on flywheel face:
PCD, no. and diam of dowel pins
3 pins of 10.0mm on 312mm PCD
PCD, no. and diam of bolt holes
6 holes of M8 on 310 PCD (pretty sure on these but had to use a tape measure)
Diam of flywheel face
OD of flywheel 312mm, diamter of clutch boss 277mm
Diam of recess in centre of flywheel
recess diamter 177mm

horizontal distance from end of crank to ring gear teeth (ie offset of ring gear teeth)
5mm from mounting flange
thickness of ring gear teeth
18mm including approx 2.5mm lead-in

the length of the input shaft cannot possibly be a problem because the spigot end of the input shaft runs in the pilot bearing which runs in the end of the cranksaft - not in the flywheel. Good thinking to check out the offset of the ring gear as the starter might be different, but it would make sense for a 1PZ and 1HZ starter to be the same (toyota doesn't always make sense though!) otherwise I reckon you're on a winner, the 11" clutch will give you a bit more bite and the thickness difference in the flywheels you should be able to compensate for by lengthening the clutch slave cylinder - throwout bearing pushrod (or possibly a 1HZ throwout bearing has a higher profile).

cheers

Brian

[smithie]

thanks for that brian,
Sorry, you are right about the input shaft, this is the first time i've ever pulled apart a clutch so still learning a little bit! (come to think of it, i always seem to learn the difficult way.. first engine i pulled apart -to replace a head gasket- was a vg30dett, twin turbo quad cam variable valve timing v6 out of a nissan 300zx.. not the most simple piece of kit..! )

Likewise I would think the starters would be the same, but i'm going to double check.. the best motto is to assume nothing!


didnt think about lengthening the slave-throwout bearing pushrod, but i think your on to something.. if i'm on the same wavelength then doesnt that mean a small increase in its length will position the throwout bearing and hence clutch, closer to the flywheel?? Sounds good so far..

That 1 HZ flywheel of yours wouldnt happen to be a spare one that you'd consider selling would it brian? I'm in sydney near homebush next week so could pick it up.. If not I'm sure a wreckers will have one close by..

Cheers!
Daniel

[dumbdunce]

I would think the starters would be the same, but i'm going to double check.. the best motto is to assume nothing!

especially on japanese cars. there are so many model variations it's crazy. but on this one I think you'll be ok.

didnt think about lengthening the slave-throwout bearing pushrod, but i think your on to something.. if i'm on the same wavelength then doesnt that mean a small increase in its length will position the throwout bearing and hence clutch, closer to the flywheel?? Sounds good so far..

yep you're on the right track. it might also be that a 1HZ clutch is a higher profile than a 1PZ clutch so it would all come out in the wash. as long as the fingers of the diaphragm spring where the throwout bearing presses is within a few mm of where it was originally you're ok- otherwise as long as it's within a cm or so wither way, should be able to fiddle it with the pushrod.

That 1 HZ flywheel of yours wouldnt happen to be a spare one that you'd consider selling would it brian? I'm in sydney near homebush next week so could pick it up.. If not I'm sure a wreckers will have one close by..

it is spare and for sale. have you got a price from a wrecker for one? what do you think is fair? I am not far from homebush so should work out well for you.

[Ruggers]

have look at this page it had different parts and prices
http://pricebook.donkyatt.com.au/search.asp

[smithie]

G'day brian,
have been away shooting for a few days, just got back this morning and heading to sydney this arvo...
I havn't checked out any prices as yet for a 1hz flywheel and have no idea what they are worth, i'll give a wreckers a call on monday/tuesday.

My mobile number is 0408522449, email 183412@swin.edu.au if you need to contact me. Otherwise I'll drop you a line here when I'm in sydney and know what their worth.

Cheers
Daniel