oil in air locker line

[shavedtoy]

i used my locker on the weekend and it didnt sound right when it was disingaged, on closer inspection i found the valve and air line to be full off diff oil, i checked the diff breather which is extended and it may have been slightly blocked, so would this mean the diff was trying to breath through the locker line or is it somthing more serious, any other ideas on what may have cuased this,

[YankeeDave]

i think you've nailed it. Blocked breather causes this problem.

or maybe a rooted o ring seal in diff. at anyrate, clean out breather and all should be good. And it dosnt hurt, jsut a tad of diff oil at valve which can stink. Such little amount of oil is lost, wont really effect diff level for a long time

[MQ080]

Apparently this is a common issue and eventhough it is not desirable ARB have sighted it as only a minor problem, if one at all.

[shavedtoy]

so basicly its trying to breath through the locker line and not the breather,
so i shouldnt be worried then if its a common thing, is there anyway to help prevent it?
thanks for the imput

[suzukiboy]

My mate in his twin locker Jimny had this problem and ARB put in a in line value that he can open and close himself.

[hypo]

its not trying to breathe thru the breather at all, if u get oil from the exhaust side of the air locker solinoid, it can only mean 1 thing, the o-ring seals on the locker need to b replaced.

basically as the locker's air pressure is realeased, the air creates a vacumm and pulls the diff oil past the rooted seals and pushes it out thru the solinoid.

the seals r only about 2 or 3 $$..

[shavedtoy]

the seals should be ok the locker is only about 2 months old they shouldnt be rooted yet should they

[dumbdunce]

search! (you'll get the same answer, blocked breather or poor installation)

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=25918
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=11002

the most likely cause is the blocked breather. the second most likely cause is poor installation, with the side air housing not perfectly square and concentric on the bearing spigot extension. if the locker locks and stays locked without the compressor running or cycling (once every 5 minutes or so is ok), the o-rings are fine. clear the breather, flush your blue line with some compressed air, and see how it goes. as long as it's not vomiting spoonfuls of oil it's fine. in fact some oil in the line gives you quicker engagement and more locks per cycle. it's not all bad.

[shavedtoy]

thanks for the help ill see how it goes now ive flushed the line and changed the way i had my breather set up, hopfully all is ok,

[customhilux]

its not trying to breathe thru the breather at all, if u get oil from the exhaust side of the air locker solinoid, it can only mean 1 thing, the o-ring seals on the locker need to b replaced.

basically as the locker's air pressure is realeased, the air creates a vacumm and pulls the diff oil past the rooted seals and pushes it out thru the solinoid.

the seals r only about 2 or 3 $$..

i'm goin with hypo on this,

ya locker shouldn't be open to the diff, cause every time u use it, u would be pressurising ya diff, then blowing ya seals in ya diff.

i would be checking the o-rings,


also it wont matter how old it is, comes down to how it was built.

while ya at it, i'd be checking the seals in ya valve, diff oil is to thick for pneumatic systems, eat ya seals, and score spools and shit.

[V6XtraHilux]

Ive had the same problem with my air locker. Oil dripping out of valve at compressor.
Complained to ARB, they took it into the workshop, pulled it apart, checked the seals, etc, checked it all out, everything was fine, they said some diffs, particularly Hilux or some toyo diffs have this problem.

They fitted an inline valve thats mounted on the chassis ahead of the diff, and the oil drips out here, all over the axle i might add!!! BUT, never had the problem of oil dripping out at the compressor again.

Bearing this in mind, it'd pay to check the oil level in the diff, after 10,000ks, in between servicings, my diff oil was WAYYYY down on what it should have been
ARB reckon its fine! Go figure.
Karl

[customhilux]

Ive had the same problem with my air locker. Oil dripping out of valve at compressor.
Complained to ARB, they took it into the workshop, pulled it apart, checked the seals, etc, checked it all out, everything was fine, they said some diffs, particularly Hilux or some toyo diffs have this problem.

They fitted an inline valve thats mounted on the chassis ahead of the diff, and the oil drips out here, all over the axle i might add!!! BUT, never had the problem of oil dripping out at the compressor again.

Bearing this in mind, it'd pay to check the oil level in the diff, after 10,000ks, in between servicings, my diff oil was WAYYYY down on what it should have been
ARB reckon its fine! Go figure.
Karl

dude, how'd ya get oil all the way to the compressor, the line comin from the diff, should be open to atmosphere, not to the compressor, and if i was u i'd put a check valve up near ya compressor.

[Screwy]

i got oil up mine also...

the rear disengaging has never quite sounded the same.... even afer flushing it out, but it still works

[shavedtoy]

so where are these o'rings i need to check are they in the locker it self?
does that mean pulling the diff out again to check?

sorry please excuse my ignorance

[dumbdunce]

so where are these o'rings i need to check are they in the locker it self?
does that mean pulling the diff out again to check?

sorry please excuse my ignorance

they are inside the diff housing yes, so to check them requires removing the diff. if it was only installed a few weeks ago then it is the installers problem. BUT - read carefully - if the compressor does not run continuously, or cycle more frequently than every 5 minutes when the locker is ENGAGED, then the o-rings are fine. The 'problem' is very common and does not impact the operation of the locker at all. Make sure your axle breather is clear as this can force some oil past the o-rings when things heat up in there. It can also be caused simply by the installer being a bit over-zealous with the lube when he's putting it all together. Stop worrying about it unless the compressor keeps running. if the compressor is in the cab, wrap the solenoid in a rag to mop up the oil.

[shavedtoy]

thanks for the help again, ill lock it in and see what happens with the compressor runing or not,

[hypo]

search! (you'll get the same answer, blocked breather or poor installation)

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=25918
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=11002

the most likely cause is the blocked breather. the second most likely cause is poor installation, with the side air housing not perfectly square and concentric on the bearing spigot extension. if the locker locks and stays locked without the compressor running or cycling (once every 5 minutes or so is ok), the o-rings are fine. clear the breather, flush your blue line with some compressed air, and see how it goes. as long as it's not vomiting spoonfuls of oil it's fine. in fact some oil in the line gives you quicker engagement and more locks per cycle. it's not all bad.

if the seals r fine then how is the oil getting into the air line ??

[RUFF]

its not trying to breathe thru the breather at all, if u get oil from the exhaust side of the air locker solinoid, it can only mean 1 thing, the o-ring seals on the locker need to b replaced.

basically as the locker's air pressure is realeased, the air creates a vacumm and pulls the diff oil past the rooted seals and pushes it out thru the solinoid.

the seals r only about 2 or 3 $$..

I have had the same Air Lockers for about 5 years now and i have changed them into about 15 different sets of gears. Im still using the same O rings that i got when i bought the lockers and i have allways had slight residue come from the exhast ports of the solinoids. It is quite common and causes no real problems. Unless it is pouring out or the compressor is cylcing often dont worry about it.

[dumbdunce]

search! (you'll get the same answer, blocked breather or poor installation)

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=25918
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=11002

the most likely cause is the blocked breather. the second most likely cause is poor installation, with the side air housing not perfectly square and concentric on the bearing spigot extension. if the locker locks and stays locked without the compressor running or cycling (once every 5 minutes or so is ok), the o-rings are fine. clear the breather, flush your blue line with some compressed air, and see how it goes. as long as it's not vomiting spoonfuls of oil it's fine. in fact some oil in the line gives you quicker engagement and more locks per cycle. it's not all bad.

if the seals r fine then how is the oil getting into the air line ??

three common modes:

1. the o-rings and the side air housing are designed to seal against a positive pressure in the line and between the o-rings - when that pressure system is revesed, for example by the axle breather being blocked, and positive pressure building up in the axle housing due to the increase in temperature of the oil and air in the housing under running conditions, some of the fluids in the housing (oil and air) are forced past the o-rings, into the side air housing, and eventually back up the air line. once the pressure is reversed again, the o-rings seal, the locker locks. if they don't leak when there is pressure in the line, they are doing what they were designed to do, and are obviously in a servicable condition.

2. everything above goes double for the U-ring in the annular cylinder - it is designed to seal one-way (with pressure on the concave side), and when the pressure is released, or builds up on the other side (eg blocked breather + running temp) it is very easy for oil to bypass the u-ring, and work it way into the side air housing and eventually into the air line.

3. on assembly of the locker, it it not unusual for the monkey to squirt a little (lot) of fresh oil around to make sure everything is well lubed. I know I do it, because it's not uncommon for the u-ring to be inadequately lubed out of the box and it can be a scary moment if the locker doesn't lock. also plenty of oil gets splashed around when fitting the side air housing to avoid damage to the o-rings as they are worked over the end of the spigot extension (or the side housing worked over the o-rings which run in grooves in the spigot extension in some models). some of this oil obviously ends up inside the side air housing and annular cylinder, and on de-activation works its way back up the line with the released air.

summary: if the compressor runs continuously or cycles, AND no external leakage can be found, the o-rings and/or the U ring are damaged and need replacing - this is almost always a case of poor installation, involving a failure to install the side air housing square and concentric with the spigot extension. If the compressor does not run, or cycles less often about about once every few minutes, the internals of the locker are fine and the oil ejection from the solenoid valve should be considered normal.

is that more clear?

cheers

Brian

[hypo]

search! (you'll get the same answer, blocked breather or poor installation)

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=25918
http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=11002

the most likely cause is the blocked breather. the second most likely cause is poor installation, with the side air housing not perfectly square and concentric on the bearing spigot extension. if the locker locks and stays locked without the compressor running or cycling (once every 5 minutes or so is ok), the o-rings are fine. clear the breather, flush your blue line with some compressed air, and see how it goes. as long as it's not vomiting spoonfuls of oil it's fine. in fact some oil in the line gives you quicker engagement and more locks per cycle. it's not all bad.

if the seals r fine then how is the oil getting into the air line ??

three common modes:

1. the o-rings and the side air housing are designed to seal against a positive pressure in the line and between the o-rings - when that pressure system is revesed, for example by the axle breather being blocked, and positive pressure building up in the axle housing due to the increase in temperature of the oil and air in the housing under running conditions, some of the fluids in the housing (oil and air) are forced past the o-rings, into the side air housing, and eventually back up the air line. once the pressure is reversed again, the o-rings seal, the locker locks. if they don't leak when there is pressure in the line, they are doing what they were designed to do, and are obviously in a servicable condition.

2. everything above goes double for the U-ring in the annular cylinder - it is designed to seal one-way (with pressure on the concave side), and when the pressure is released, or builds up on the other side (eg blocked breather + running temp) it is very easy for oil to bypass the u-ring, and work it way into the side air housing and eventually into the air line.

3. on assembly of the locker, it it not unusual for the monkey to squirt a little (lot) of fresh oil around to make sure everything is well lubed. I know I do it, because it's not uncommon for the u-ring to be inadequately lubed out of the box and it can be a scary moment if the locker doesn't lock. also plenty of oil gets splashed around when fitting the side air housing to avoid damage to the o-rings as they are worked over the end of the spigot extension (or the side housing worked over the o-rings which run in grooves in the spigot extension in some models). some of this oil obviously ends up inside the side air housing and annular cylinder, and on de-activation works its way back up the line with the released air.

summary: if the compressor runs continuously or cycles, AND no external leakage can be found, the o-rings and/or the U ring are damaged and need replacing - this is almost always a case of poor installation, involving a failure to install the side air housing square and concentric with the spigot extension. If the compressor does not run, or cycles less often about about once every few minutes, the internals of the locker are fine and the oil ejection from the solenoid valve should be considered normal.

is that more clear?

cheers

Brian

cheers Brian that makes it more clear, i couldnt understand b4 that if the seals were not leaking how oil could pass thru intit he air line, but it makes sences, cheers

[dumbdunce]

cheers Brian that makes it more clear, i couldnt understand b4 that if the seals were not leaking how oil could pass thru intit he air line, but it makes sences, cheers

phew I'm glad, those big red letters had me scared we were gonna have another one of these: http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... torder=asc



(that is the funnayest thread evarr!)

[shavedtoy]

i locked the rear locker in last night and went drivin and the compressor didnt start at all while it was in, so i guess the o'rings must be ok,
thanks again for the help...