Any update on Haultech traction control?

[Nev62]

Now that a little more time has passed, is there any update on Haultec traction control? Is it still holding it's own against diff locks? How have the guys been doing at comps?

[Dodger]

Sorry to hear bout your camper we will keep a lookout for it .
I do not know anything about this traction control.
In case your interested I had a ford courier and had a detroit in the front. It made the vehicle. Best thing I ever did .

[redzook]

Now that a little more time has passed, is there any update on Haltec traction control? Is it still holding it's own against diff locks? How have the guys been doing at comps?

it will neva be as good as a diff lock

from what i ahve seen it dosent excite me

[Nev62]

Sorry to hear bout your camper we will keep a lookout for it .
I do not know anything about this traction control.
In case your interested I had a ford courier and had a detroit in the front. It made the vehicle. Best thing I ever did .

Tell me more

[ISUZUROVER]

No updates, but I have seen the Haultech traction control in action many times and driven Sam's lockless with it fitted, and IMO it works very well, much better than any factory traction control out there.

IMO it is not quite as good as a diff lock (in most terrain) but pretty close. It also keeps the truck more manouverable than a locked diff does. As well as being easier on the drive train.

[Nev62]

Now that a little more time has passed, is there any update on Haltec traction control? Is it still holding it's own against diff locks? How have the guys been doing at comps?

it will neva be as good as a diff lock

from what i ahve seen it dosent excite me

Sounds disappointing

[redzook]

It also keeps the truck more manouverable than a locked diff does..

werent tc and airlockers ruffley the same price?

if so u can turn of the locker anyways..

[bad_religion_au]

i think the advantage in manuverability with traction control is that it can remain on, giving drive to all 4 wheels, while you can turn

unlock both your ARB's and your stuck tith open diffs which may not allow you the traction to manuver

[sierrajim]

Is there anyone who has USED it that can properley inform us?

[RaginRover]

Is there anyone who has USED it that can properley inform us?

yeah me,

I have it fitted to my rangie on the rear axle and it means I can wheel with 10 splines with good traction. I couldn't run a locker with that setup
I would just snap axles.

The traction control is nearly ready, I have seen the final desgin, the computer has been re-designed and it is much better than mine. I have actually had mine sold on me - I am waiting for a new computer which should be the final design.

They have had boards designed and made and now they are starting a production run which should be done within the few months as far as I could guess/tell.

As far as un-inspiring goes anything that gives people options for wheeling who wouldn't have cheaper/easier solution can only be a good thing.

1. Portable - can fit any vehicle
2. Easier on hardware - less shock loading
3. More manouvrability - no locked in front

This product has been designed from the ground up by two aussies puts it in a league with only a few products.

Tom

[Bluey]

Now that a little more time has passed, is there any update on Haltec traction control? Is it still holding it's own against diff locks? How have the guys been doing at comps?

it will neva be as good as a diff lock

from what i ahve seen it dosent excite me

I watched both Sam's Mogrover and Tony's Lockless Defender at Tuff Truck and thought they went very well. no the power isn't locked 100% of the time to the wheels, but this didn't seem to cause problems, in some cases almost looked like they had better traction. in fact could well have stopped front axles etc from snapping. this is an option that myself and another mate who saw these rigs in person with me are weighing up. as for price, a flyer given to me at TT stated $1800 for full system, extra for fitting. air lockers normally around $1200 ea plus air comp


Cheers
Lance

[Suspension Stuff]

When cashed up Traction Control is going up front in my Rangie. Quite often when 4wding you need to turn with full concentration and momentum. You can give it a bit more stick without trashing your diffs, axles andCV's. While I am there I may as well get it fitted to the rear. For the ultimate fit both lockers and traction control.

[redzook]

Is there anyone who has USED it that can properley inform us?

i have driven with it fitted to the front of a zuk

[Nev62]

I'm guessing that the setup only works with LS Diffs and not open Diffs???

[redzook]

I'm guessing that the setup only works with LS Diffs and not open Diffs???

it works with open

but i belive works betta with lsd

[ISUZUROVER]

Is there anyone who has USED it that can properley inform us?

As I stated I have driven Sam's old Lockless which has traction control front and rear. And I have been a passenger in a few rigs running it as well.

[ISUZUROVER]

I'm guessing that the setup only works with LS Diffs and not open Diffs???

It works fine with open diffs, but with LSD's there would be almost no difference to a locker IMO.

[Strange Rover]

This is what I said in the last thread about traction control - and in terms of how well it works nothing has changed:

I guess the biggest question is how well does our electronic traction control work? Is it as good as lockers in terms of making a vehicle able to drive over stuff?

Let me state first off that in terms of getting the most amount of traction possible you can never do any better than a 100% locking differential.


So looking at hardcore type wheeling (like competition type stuff etc) - I would guess that in well over 90% of situations that requires twin lockers to get through you will get exactly the same result with our traction control. Now in the last 10% of situations you will definately notice that the traction control behaves differently to the lockers. The most common situation for me would be a steep rocky climb with offset ledges - something that you need to drive with throttle and momentum (whether lockers or ETC) - with the ETC you will start to notice the time delay and extra wheelspin that the traction control needs to operate. If the climb is difficult enough then you may find that a rig with lockers will be able to drive it and one with ETC wont. That being said I have never found an obstacle that I could drive with double lockers (ARB) that I couldnt drive totally open diffed with the traction control (this was back in the day when I ran ARB'd dana 44s as well as the traction control on the blue rover with 36in tyres and then 42in tyres)

These last 10% of situations are also the places that you really risk breaking something (like CVs or crownwheels for instance). The traction control is just so much easier on axle components. I would guess that an ARBed axle with 35in tyres would be about the same strength as a traction controlled axle with 42s - and Im totally serious on this point. The traction control is just that much easier on axles it isnt funny. Out of the hard core rigs that I wheel with that run hilux front CVs which is basically myself on 38s, Adrian on 38s and Rob on 42s that run front traction control compared with Tony on 38s and Beebee on 38s with front lockers the difference is amazing. Myself, Adrian and Rob drive the arse out of our rigs with absolutely no concern with front axle breakage and we rearly break CVs. Tony, who really drives carefully with his front locker breaks more CVs than the 3 of us combined and Beebee, who drives the arse out of his rig with his front locker breaks more than Tony again.

So it really depends on how strong your axles are. If you got axles that you carnt break then the lockers are the perfect choice - you could never do better than that but if you are worried about breaking stuff (particularly the front axle) and you find yourself turning off the front locker on the difficult throttling climbs or only use the front locker as an absolutely last resort then the traction control will probably make the rig more capable.

At the moment in my tube buggy which runs hilux limited slips and traction control (no lockers at all which is why its called the Lockless) there is nothing that this rig hasnt been able to drive that has been driven by Tony (twin lockers), Adrian (rear locker and front traction control) the Mogrover (twin lockers), Beebee (twin lockers), or Rob (rear locker and front traction control). In fact there is one new climb that so far only the Lockless had managed to drive and nobody else has. Tony has been out there a couple of times and he has broken both times and has yet to drive it. It took me a few tries to get it (cause its a bit offcamber) and I actually rolled completely over back onto my wheels before i drove it on my next attempt.


In the non hard core type wheeling, the sort of wheeling that you are going to do with your wife and kids in the car, I couldnt imagine there will be a situation where the traction control wont work as well as the lockers. It will probably work better because its totally automatic - you just turn it on and forget about it whether you are driving uphill, downhill, corning or on the flat. The traction control wont do a thing until you need it. The second big plus for this type of rig that again the traction control is just so much easier on the axles and CVs. And the traction control will fit any vehicle - its only the bracketry that will be different.

So if you are going to build a full on comp rig. Is the traction control something you should look at? I would say definately yes especially on the front axle. Most modern rear axles are strong enough to handle a rear locker so a locker there is the best way to go but in the front if you got some bigger tyres and reasonable horsepower then the traction control without a locker will probably make a better rig simple because you will be able to drive it harder without breaking it. On a full comp rig I probably wouldnt run it in the rear because there are times when the time delay of the traction control might slow you down - the lockless doesent have a rear locker and I do notice that its not locked although this hasnt ever stopped me driving anywhere that a rear locked rid has driven (like Tony or Adrian). Most modern rigs do have factory rear limited slip diffs and the traction control working on a limited slip diff is very, very close to a 100% locker. If you are running 35 spline cro mo shafts and CTMs on a Dana 60 then lockers will be best


Sam

[Strange Rover]

In terms of how well it works in competition the traction control was fitted to my origional tube buggy and it won the overal championship in XRCC last year in a field of vehicles that all had twin lockers - so the system does work very well.

I then pulled the buggy apart and put it into a defender ute and Tony drove this Tuff Truck this year and came 13th, which wasnt a great result really but the rig had lots of little problems cause it was only finnished the day before we left and was totally untested. The best result about Tuff Truck is that the vehicle didnt have any difficulty in driving the terrain. On those courses the traction control was well up to task with handling the obstacles - it was never caught out.

So is the traction control as good as lockers in terms of providing 100% traction? No but it is very close.....as I have said in the post above.

Sam

[Strange Rover]

Now that a little more time has passed, is there any update on Haultec traction control? Is it still holding it's own against diff locks? How have the guys been doing at comps?

So to answer these questions:

Updates - we are fairly well right to go. We have gat all the major components in stock. If you wanted a setup for your Raider we could have a kit together in about a week.

Still holding its own against difflocks - I believe yes in 90% of situations. Still havnt found an obstacle that can be driven by something with double difflocks that couldnt be driven by something with open diffs and traction control.

Competitions? As I have said above.

Sam

[Strange Rover]

it will neva be as good as a diff lock

from what i ahve seen it dosent excite me

On a vehicle with a weak front axle the traction control is much better than a diff lock cause it wont break the front end like a locker can. With the traction control you will drive harder obstacles simply because the front doesent break.

Sam

[Zute]

How does your system work? do you need anti lock brake master cyl' or such?
Do you have a web sight. Would be interested in fitting it to my Pajero( daily drive).

[Strange Rover]

How does your system work? do you need anti lock brake master cyl' or such?
Do you have a web sight. Would be interested in fitting it to my Pajero( daily drive).

Nothing to do with ABS. Dont have a web site. Have a look at this thread

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... on+control

I sort of explain it about half way down.

Sam

[Strange Rover]

cut and paste:

We put speed sensors on each wheel which normally consists of a thin steel disc with lots of 12mm holes in it that the speed sensor looks at. This disc just sits in behind the wheel over the studs. The latest way that we are doing this is to place a band of thin steel with the holes in it over the disc brake hub and have the sensor looking at that. The sensor normally mounts off the brake caliper mount bolts. For a drum brake the sensor plate sits on the inside of the drum and so does the speed sensor itself.

The sensors (4 of them) are connect back to a computer that makes decisions about whether it should apply brakes to any wheel.

The way it applies the brakes is by controlling air soleniod valves (like the ARB locker valves). The valves apply air pressure into 4 individual air chambers that apply force to the 4 brake master cylinder that apply the brakes to the 4 individual wheels via the existing wheel brakes. So this is why you need an air compressor to run the system. Also you can see that the individual master cylinder must have an individual brake line running to each wheel brake which is why you need "4 channel" brakes. If you only got 3 or 2 channel brakes (or 1 channel for that matter) then it doesent matter cause you just run extra brake lines and flex lines if needed.

The whole setup is totally tested and ADR compliant and is totally certifiable although at this point each vehicle that the setup is installed on has to be certified individually.

The installation will have to be carried out by trained personel it probably isnt something that you could do by yourselves (although you probably could). In the future it may be because we will make kits for the individual makes so that everything will be a bolt in affair but we arnt there yet.

Sam

[De-lux]

well someone has to ask....

prices?

[Beastmavster]

I reckon outerlimitsd members should get special price for field testing.....

[Zute]

Thanks Sam, That makes sense. So you use a new 4 brake master cylinder in place of the standard duel master cylinder. OK.

[ISUZUROVER]

Thanks Sam, That makes sense. So you use a new 4 brake master cylinder in place of the standard duel master cylinder. OK.

Also you can see that the individual master cylinder must have an individual brake line running to each wheel brake which is why you need "4 channel" brakes. If you only got 3 or 2 channel brakes (or 1 channel for that matter) then it doesent matter cause you just run extra brake lines and flex lines if needed.

NO, as Sam said above you just need a brake line to each wheel.

[sierrajim]

I'm guessing that you need a brake line to each wheel on any axle controlled by the traction control system?

ie if i have an ARB rear air locker and traction control front i only need to run the traction control brake lines to the front axle?

[ISUZUROVER]

I'm guessing that you need a brake line to each wheel on any axle controlled by the traction control system?

ie if i have an ARB rear air locker and traction control front i only need to run the traction control brake lines to the front axle?

YES. AFAIK you just need enough free length of brakeline (to an individual wheel) somewhere, with enough space to mount the air brake actuator that works the traction control for that wheel.