I have some friends who looking at buying their first 4B with a budget of approx 20k.
They are not the sort of people who will go to Gembrook every weekend and bury it to the top of the doors in mud, but at the same time want something that is capable off road.
The obvious choices are an 80 series or a GQ but 80's are big and 20k doesnt get you all that much and GQ's are too ugly/basic to be spending 20k on!
So for the likes of Prado's, Surf's, Pajero's etc whats worth looking at and whats worth avoiding?
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$20k for non-hardcore 4wd?
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$20k for non-hardcore 4wd?
The hardest thing about owning a jeep is telling your parents you're g a y!!
That's exactly how I started - just want something that will take me camping and do a bit of off road. 1 year later I am now fully hooked on modifying the hell out of my Disco to make it go further and through anything. Don't be fooled, your friends will want to do stuff to the rig and therefore will be spending $ down the track!!
Good luck with it all
Good luck with it all
The reason I got the disco is becuase they really are very cabable out of the box. They are as reliable as any other car I have had but like anything, things go wrong. They go wrong less though if you look after them and service them regularly by someone who knows what they are doing. Youshould be able to pick up a series 1 for under 20K or a '99 series 2 maybe for about that.Cossie wrote:I guess a disco isnt a bad idea... what can you get for 20k in a disco? and has their reliability improved any?
Paj, all the way.
Good, cheap allrounder, reliable and strong, comfort levels are high and room for medium mods down the track if they feel so inclined.
Toy Surfs are a pretty good allrounder too.
Only reason you'd go for an 80 or GQ would be if you were going to ramp up the mods down the track.
Jeeps too expensive to throw some kit at, a bit small for what you pay and touring duties.
Disco petrols are thirsty and unreliable, diesels are expensive and still unreliable and discos in general are unreliable ... if you could pick a disco up for about $8k, you'd need the extra $12k just to keep it on the road.
Good, cheap allrounder, reliable and strong, comfort levels are high and room for medium mods down the track if they feel so inclined.
Toy Surfs are a pretty good allrounder too.
Only reason you'd go for an 80 or GQ would be if you were going to ramp up the mods down the track.
Jeeps too expensive to throw some kit at, a bit small for what you pay and touring duties.
Disco petrols are thirsty and unreliable, diesels are expensive and still unreliable and discos in general are unreliable ... if you could pick a disco up for about $8k, you'd need the extra $12k just to keep it on the road.
KRiS
the GQ would be an awesome choice. Should be able to pick up a good one for a little under 20k then a little left for some new rubber and maybe new suspension. I'm not just saying that cause i own one but they will probably be the best possible 4by for the price your talking, cause the 80 (which is a really good 4by) will be a good 5k more than the equivilant aged GQ. the only downfall will be fuel consumption if they get the big petrol.
I'd try to find a dual fuel 4.5 litre GU Patrol for that money - there are plenty sub $25k that are completely stock.
I agree with you that a GQ is just a bit too clunky looking for that kind of money (but a great option for under $10k). Anyone spending $20k today on a GQ that's not seriously and expensively modified would need their head read imho.
A discovery *could* be a good option if they get lucky and find one that's been sorted or was built while the boss was down on the plant floor, but it's a bit of a crap shoot - my personal feeling is that it's just too easy to end up with a total lemon when you buy British. (ps my sister has one for sale
)
80 series - good (but pricier) if you're lining it up next to a GQ but falls short if you can find a GU patrol that fits your budget.
I'd leave surfs and hiluxes off the list but I wouldn't rule out the Pajero; these are really underrated from what I have seen, maybe because they just don't get used off-road that much. From what you've said about how they plan to use it it could be okay.
I don't know enough about the Prados to say but there are plenty in the price range you've specified and I hear they are okay.
How about an ex-ambulance F250?
Jason
I agree with you that a GQ is just a bit too clunky looking for that kind of money (but a great option for under $10k). Anyone spending $20k today on a GQ that's not seriously and expensively modified would need their head read imho.
A discovery *could* be a good option if they get lucky and find one that's been sorted or was built while the boss was down on the plant floor, but it's a bit of a crap shoot - my personal feeling is that it's just too easy to end up with a total lemon when you buy British. (ps my sister has one for sale
)80 series - good (but pricier) if you're lining it up next to a GQ but falls short if you can find a GU patrol that fits your budget.
I'd leave surfs and hiluxes off the list but I wouldn't rule out the Pajero; these are really underrated from what I have seen, maybe because they just don't get used off-road that much. From what you've said about how they plan to use it it could be okay.
I don't know enough about the Prados to say but there are plenty in the price range you've specified and I hear they are okay.
How about an ex-ambulance F250?
Jason
This is not legal advice.
what 5 to 10k paying too much for XJ cherokee that is a great 2 person touring vehical ? great power to weight ratio helps tooRoldIT wrote:
Jeeps too expensive to throw some kit at, a bit small for what you pay and touring duties.
.
an later model XJ is around the 15 to 20k mark with leather and all the nice mod cons a OME 2" kit and decent set of tyres and will do almost anything that was describe what they are looking for stock it would suit them fine but the OME kit makes it even better
Bit more space needed a ZJ Grand Cherokee is sub 20k
later on if they get hooked that can go mod spastic but for that they will pay big time
Im here for the sausage!
Re: $20k for non-hardcore 4wd?
i know you said non-hard core but for that much your mate could buy HYPO's hilux and be unstoppable.Cossie wrote:I have some friends who looking at buying their first 4B with a budget of approx 20k.
They are not the sort of people who will go to Gembrook every weekend and bury it to the top of the doors in mud, but at the same time want something that is capable off road.
The obvious choices are an 80 series or a GQ but 80's are big and 20k doesnt get you all that much and GQ's are too ugly/basic to be spending 20k on!
So for the likes of Prado's, Surf's, Pajero's etc whats worth looking at and whats worth avoiding?
( dont have a link for hypo, but PM him for details)
There is also Bogans hilux for sale, his is not as hardcore but is still very, very good.
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if you want a toyota surf i would suggest getting an aussie 4runner (i own a surf at the moment) as it will be cheaper to insure (surfs are a grey import and the insurance companys love them cause they can jack the insurance up) both the surf and the 4runner are basicly the same vehicle with different trim levels
R.I.P. Darryl "DAZZA" Mutch 02/08/1978 - 26/08/2012 aged 34 years ... You will be missed my little brother.
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http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39190&start=150
You only need the solid front axle if you're gonna go the more extreme tracks. For general touring in National Parks etc, the Pajero/Prado/Surf will be more than adequate - and the IFS will be nicer on the bitumen.
These days you can fit diff locks front and rear and crawler gears (for the Pajero at least
) so if the bug bites you can build a capable vehicle which will surprise many so called 4wd "experts."
But if the bug bites REAL hard, you'll want a solid front - in which case you can take your Pajero to Cheezy, like Frank did.
Your friends should drive them all, and buy the one they like.
Cheers,
Scott
These days you can fit diff locks front and rear and crawler gears (for the Pajero at least
) so if the bug bites you can build a capable vehicle which will surprise many so called 4wd "experts."But if the bug bites REAL hard, you'll want a solid front - in which case you can take your Pajero to Cheezy, like Frank did.
Your friends should drive them all, and buy the one they like.
Cheers,
Scott
Range Rover, HSE, 1996, Epson green, 4.6 litre, fully optioned, lambswool seat covers, reverse sensors, log books, 159000kms, safety cert, VGC $21000 (0408)450559, (07)33681991, ASHGROVE.
RANGE ROVER HSE 1995 168,000kms, full service, Silver, good tyres, 10/05, safety-cert, $17990 PH: 38486611 T.
RANGE ROVER 1996 HSE, auto, caspian blue, CDstacker, s/roof etc, done high kms, unbeatable price, NUO-130, $13,000neg. (03)56841228, (0409)181745, Mornington Peninsula Area
Range Rover 4.6 HSE 1995, fully optioned, colour coded bull-bars, logs, 170000kms, $16500 ono, ATR-325 SYDNEY 0414-41 4243.
Range Rover 1996 HSE, all opts, sunroof, alloys, climate air, perfect, log books, and service history, $17990, ULL-30. DL-18442. www.carsautohaus.com.au THORNLEIGH 02-9980 6844.
Range Rover HSE 1995 auto, 180000kms, new tyres and battery. all usual HSE features, a/c, leather, sunroof, (QND-891) $18,000, (0428)303484, (03)98074734 Mt Waverley.
Range Rover HSE 1996, 5spd man, 8cly 4.6ltr, Dark Charcol duco with Grey leather, fully optioned with CD stacker, sunroof, & also as a bonus ski roof racks & chains, Great family car, has been an Excellent car over the past 5 years, with a full service history, NKG-873, Priced to sell, $19,000ono (0403) 530109 or (03)96363707 Port Melbourne.
Range Rover 1996 HSC, blue/grey colour, leather interior, A1 cond, full Range Rover history, 150,000klm, RWCert, reg TDK460 $19500 (0403)355666, (03)93728544 Moonee Ponds.
Range Rover 1997 4.6 HSE, good cond body and mech $20000 ono NXE-42F ANNANGROVE 02-9679 1978...
4 Wheel Dr Blue, Wagon 4.6ltr V8 Petrol Auto, Approved for 3 year Australia wide unlim. Kms. Warranty. Electronic air susp, Dual air bags, Climate control air cond, Power steering, Cruise control, Factory sun roof, All leather seats, Alloy wheels, Electric seats with memory, CD stacker. $19,999.00 958 Nepean Highway Moorabbin 03 9555 0644
Range Rover 1997 4.6 HSE, good cond body and mech $20000 ono NXE-42F ANNANGROVE 02-9679 1978 or 0404-865671.
You wont find anything with as much standard gear as these vehicles. And yes they are still capable off Road.
RANGE ROVER HSE 1995 168,000kms, full service, Silver, good tyres, 10/05, safety-cert, $17990 PH: 38486611 T.
RANGE ROVER 1996 HSE, auto, caspian blue, CDstacker, s/roof etc, done high kms, unbeatable price, NUO-130, $13,000neg. (03)56841228, (0409)181745, Mornington Peninsula Area
Range Rover 4.6 HSE 1995, fully optioned, colour coded bull-bars, logs, 170000kms, $16500 ono, ATR-325 SYDNEY 0414-41 4243.
Range Rover 1996 HSE, all opts, sunroof, alloys, climate air, perfect, log books, and service history, $17990, ULL-30. DL-18442. www.carsautohaus.com.au THORNLEIGH 02-9980 6844.
Range Rover HSE 1995 auto, 180000kms, new tyres and battery. all usual HSE features, a/c, leather, sunroof, (QND-891) $18,000, (0428)303484, (03)98074734 Mt Waverley.
Range Rover HSE 1996, 5spd man, 8cly 4.6ltr, Dark Charcol duco with Grey leather, fully optioned with CD stacker, sunroof, & also as a bonus ski roof racks & chains, Great family car, has been an Excellent car over the past 5 years, with a full service history, NKG-873, Priced to sell, $19,000ono (0403) 530109 or (03)96363707 Port Melbourne.
Range Rover 1996 HSC, blue/grey colour, leather interior, A1 cond, full Range Rover history, 150,000klm, RWCert, reg TDK460 $19500 (0403)355666, (03)93728544 Moonee Ponds.
Range Rover 1997 4.6 HSE, good cond body and mech $20000 ono NXE-42F ANNANGROVE 02-9679 1978...
4 Wheel Dr Blue, Wagon 4.6ltr V8 Petrol Auto, Approved for 3 year Australia wide unlim. Kms. Warranty. Electronic air susp, Dual air bags, Climate control air cond, Power steering, Cruise control, Factory sun roof, All leather seats, Alloy wheels, Electric seats with memory, CD stacker. $19,999.00 958 Nepean Highway Moorabbin 03 9555 0644
Range Rover 1997 4.6 HSE, good cond body and mech $20000 ono NXE-42F ANNANGROVE 02-9679 1978 or 0404-865671.
You wont find anything with as much standard gear as these vehicles. And yes they are still capable off Road.
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Cheers for all the advice people. (even the rangie suggestion 
)
What about a Prado?
I was just reading a 2001 4wd monthly and the Prado did really well (won the diesel class and 2nd I think in petrol - to a 100 series)
The diesels are too pricey (26k+) but the petrols are well in the price range!
Just to throw an oddball in - whats the Ford Exploder like? they're certainly cheap enough!!!
)What about a Prado?
I was just reading a 2001 4wd monthly and the Prado did really well (won the diesel class and 2nd I think in petrol - to a 100 series)
The diesels are too pricey (26k+) but the petrols are well in the price range!
Just to throw an oddball in - whats the Ford Exploder like? they're certainly cheap enough!!!
The hardest thing about owning a jeep is telling your parents you're g a y!!
Under 10k? Do you have any idea about the price of 4bys that are in good condition? If anyone offered me under 10k for my '96 GQ with 130000 on the clock i would tell them to suck my rooster. you must really be looking at some shithouse vehicles.chimpboy wrote:I agree with you that a GQ is just a bit too clunky looking for that kind of money (but a great option for under $10k). Anyone spending $20k today on a GQ that's not seriously and expensively modified would need their head read imho.
Jason
I own a GQ (maverick anyway) and I paid 10k for it from a dealer. Its a diesel had 230000km on it and has been faultless. Has the usual bar/winch etc on it and hasnt missed a beat.
If I had 20k I'd have an 80 series instead, the GQ is too basic looking for 20k
If I had 20k I'd have an 80 series instead, the GQ is too basic looking for 20k
The hardest thing about owning a jeep is telling your parents you're g a y!!
Even though I drive a Surf and love it, if I was going to build a weapon for $20k, I'd go a GQ, (prob a 'shorty'), an go nuts out....
For an occasional play machine, nothing wrong with an IFS car.
Pajero's are built really strong up front, (CV'S, susp. arms etc) and are freakily capable. Friend has one with front locker, rear LSD, 33" mongrels & goes EVERYWHERE!!!!
Prado's aren't to be written off either. One guy has one with 3" bodylift, susp. lift, 36" pedes, and this thing ROCKS! With the centre diff lock, just fit front locker and free wheeling hubs and she'll go places! The new Hlux has the same suspension, so bits will become easily available as time goes on.
Surfs, are similar to those above. Yes a 4Runner is cheaper to insure, but I love the torque of the diesel. Bits are everywhere for Surfs/4Runners.
Personal choice in the end...
For an occasional play machine, nothing wrong with an IFS car.
Pajero's are built really strong up front, (CV'S, susp. arms etc) and are freakily capable. Friend has one with front locker, rear LSD, 33" mongrels & goes EVERYWHERE!!!!
Prado's aren't to be written off either. One guy has one with 3" bodylift, susp. lift, 36" pedes, and this thing ROCKS! With the centre diff lock, just fit front locker and free wheeling hubs and she'll go places! The new Hlux has the same suspension, so bits will become easily available as time goes on.
Surfs, are similar to those above. Yes a 4Runner is cheaper to insure, but I love the torque of the diesel. Bits are everywhere for Surfs/4Runners.
Personal choice in the end...
BIG.PAT
'92 Surf 2.4 TD 5 speed.
More Boost, Intercooled),
Body & sup lifts, 31x10.5 Simex M/Ts (Bigger soon) & Big Boomin Stereo!
More to come when the $$$$ sum.....
'92 Surf 2.4 TD 5 speed.
More Boost, Intercooled),
Body & sup lifts, 31x10.5 Simex M/Ts (Bigger soon) & Big Boomin Stereo!
More to come when the $$$$ sum.....
[quote="Cossie"]Cheers for all the advice people. (even the rangie suggestion )
Have them take a drive in a $20,000 HSE and then a drive in an equal money equal kilometer 80 series. If there not hardcore then I think the hse would have it in the bag. these things were $100,000 leather seats nice power, better lowrange, and they would outwheel a stock 80.
)Have them take a drive in a $20,000 HSE and then a drive in an equal money equal kilometer 80 series. If there not hardcore then I think the hse would have it in the bag. these things were $100,000 leather seats nice power, better lowrange, and they would outwheel a stock 80.
[url]http://www.vic.suzuki4wd.com/forum[/url]
but things depreciate in value quickly for a reason...muppet_man67 wrote:Cossie wrote:Cheers for all the advice people. (even the rangie suggestion
Have them take a drive in a $20,000 HSE and then a drive in an equal money equal kilometer 80 series. If there not hardcore then I think the hse would have it in the bag. these things were $100,000 leather seats nice power, better lowrange, and they would outwheel a stock 80.
Spit my last breath
You want something capable without mods, get anything solid front axle.
You want something that costs alot to fix and sucks off road without heavy mods get a pajero.
You want an GQ that is nicer but will cost more, get a 100 series.
You want speed get a petrol or turbo diesel (though decreasing you engine life), you want power and fuel economy get a diesel.
You want something you can get parts and kits readily get Toyota or Nissan.
DON"T BUY AN IMPORT!!
You want luxury that sucks off road; and prompts the question: arm, leg or liver when wanting parts - get a Rangie or a Jeep
My personal favorite the non turbo solid axle diesel Toyota Hilux dual cab for the following reasons:
1 Cheap parts and service; easy to work on
2 700kms to a standard tank size
3 Daul cab provides plenty of room for a comfy ride with 4
4 Add a canopy and you have a wagon
5 Not as wide and bulky when trying to park in a shopping centre (even the missus can drive it and loves it)
6 Got mine for $10000 leaving alot to play with; stereo, bucket seats, new bullbar, antirust spray (electronic ones do not work, as tested by RACQ, choice magazine and NRMA), canopy, suspension, wheels, UHF etc.....
You want something that costs alot to fix and sucks off road without heavy mods get a pajero.
You want an GQ that is nicer but will cost more, get a 100 series.
You want speed get a petrol or turbo diesel (though decreasing you engine life), you want power and fuel economy get a diesel.
You want something you can get parts and kits readily get Toyota or Nissan.
DON"T BUY AN IMPORT!!
You want luxury that sucks off road; and prompts the question: arm, leg or liver when wanting parts - get a Rangie or a Jeep
My personal favorite the non turbo solid axle diesel Toyota Hilux dual cab for the following reasons:
1 Cheap parts and service; easy to work on
2 700kms to a standard tank size
3 Daul cab provides plenty of room for a comfy ride with 4
4 Add a canopy and you have a wagon
5 Not as wide and bulky when trying to park in a shopping centre (even the missus can drive it and loves it)
6 Got mine for $10000 leaving alot to play with; stereo, bucket seats, new bullbar, antirust spray (electronic ones do not work, as tested by RACQ, choice magazine and NRMA), canopy, suspension, wheels, UHF etc.....
Kind Regards,
Brad
Brad
IF I was your friend I think I would consider a 97-98 series one discovery, preferably the the 300tdi with ZF auto. If he wanted a solid axle front. A great 4wd if theres only to people, because storage room is not that much. I really think Land Rovers cope a lot of crap. Myself, I don't really listen to much to what other people have a to about 4wd, because I do the reseach myself. And the manufactures earn my respect by observing how they preform in different situations. Tell your friend to look at different forums on the vehicle manufacure that he likes.
IF he wants a IFS I'd go a Prado TDI auto. My parents have one and they love. The just came back from the simpson desert where the had to carry 300L of fuel and 100L of water. and the didn't have a problem. Plus they where the only vehicle the didn't need a snatch. (They want with 3 older Rangies 2 locked front and back, the other just the rear with 300TDI and ZF auto, GQ TDI auto Locked front and back, a 2005 defender, and another prado). They Prado has more room the the disco but isn't as fuel efficient.(On the trip they used 205L, where the Rangie with the 300TDI only used 160L).
I'll will be getting my parents Prado when they move in about 2 years for a GOOD price, but I will be adding a front and rear lockers because the prados diffs arn't the greatest. Just like the discos.
Hope this helps
IF he wants a IFS I'd go a Prado TDI auto. My parents have one and they love. The just came back from the simpson desert where the had to carry 300L of fuel and 100L of water. and the didn't have a problem. Plus they where the only vehicle the didn't need a snatch. (They want with 3 older Rangies 2 locked front and back, the other just the rear with 300TDI and ZF auto, GQ TDI auto Locked front and back, a 2005 defender, and another prado). They Prado has more room the the disco but isn't as fuel efficient.(On the trip they used 205L, where the Rangie with the 300TDI only used 160L).
I'll will be getting my parents Prado when they move in about 2 years for a GOOD price, but I will be adding a front and rear lockers because the prados diffs arn't the greatest. Just like the discos.
Hope this helps
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