Broken Winch Line (crazy!!! and scary)

[Jay]

Hey guys

I was really shocked yesterday while winching myself with my WARN M8274-50 to see the synthetic winch line break. Originally the winch came with wire changed it to synthetic rope from Rock Stomper....yesterday it snaped thanks God I was in a bellied out position not in a position whereI could have rolled over.....
The situation I was in was a belly out on a steep short hill where I could not reverse...
I will contacting RockStomper (USA) today hoping to reach a solution
Apreciate your feedback

[ISUZUROVER]

What was the rated load of the rope you were using?
How old was it?
What condition was it in - already frayed/worn?
How much sun has it been exposed to - is the disco parked undercover when not in use?

[Loanrangie]

No wonder it snapped, it looks no thicker than bailing twine. Most of synthetic rope i have seen is at least the same or larger thickness than wire.

[spazbot]

did it happen to rub on a rock or something

[DiscoDino]

Was there when the rope broke...

This is a 5/16" rope that was not HEAVILY used, probably its 3rd pull, no rubbing whatsoever, and it was in GREAT condition.

I have to agree that this is EXTREMELY dangerous! but it is also safe that the cable fell on the ground, else my passneger and I would have been killed...

[Davidh]

You should have seen how many ropes broke this weekend at the Ateco winch challenge!
Not at all unusual, typically the winches were loading down so much before they snapped that you had a feeling they might go.

If at all in doubt, stop and put a snatch block in.

[Jay]

Well the winch rope was 5/16 thick rated for the Warn M8274-50....
It is one-two year old and Discovery is parked under hood most of the time....
What is also scary is that the winch did not give odd signs of failure....
I had an XD9000 snap before so I know what sound it would give....
How many of you guys are running winch ropes rather than wires?

Should it be replaced by the vendor in your opinion

[TuffRR]

Just splice it and away you go, good as new.

IMO there is no way Rockstomper would warrant it from breakage. Synthetic rope will do that unless looked after. You may have looked after it, but all it takes is some rubbing on a rock or anything else for that to happen.

[Jay]

Just splice it and away you go, good as new.

IMO there is no way Rockstomper would warrant it from breakage. Synthetic rope will do that unless looked after. You may have looked after it, but all it takes is some rubbing on a rock or anything else for that to happen.

Hey Tuffrr

Thing is that the rope never rubbed against anything as I have two sets of covers and is only one year old and have not been in use more than 5 times at most.
Even people who were wheeling with me were surprized....

What do you mean by splicing it...transfer the hook to where breakage occured...I am still skeptical about this particular rope production defected batches happen everywhere

Jay

[ISUZUROVER]

Looking at the rope it is pretty dirty, which can wear the rope pretty badly.

What do you mean by splicing it...

There is a thread on pirate by scott from rockstomper on how to splice winch rope together. In fact the link was posted in your other thread on pirate...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378233

[TD5power]

Hi there,readyour story with the synthetic rope.It looks to me that you must have picked up something sharp what was going with the rope or maybe into the rope.from a photo it's difficult to tell but it looks iff some of the strands has a clean sharp cut because off something sharp.When this happens under ;load the rope will brake very fast.That what you see on the other long stretched strands of the rope.On these parts was a lot off tension but that could be because a few of them where cut.It was for more then 20 years i had to test steel wire and synthetic rope on breaking test to give this stuff a certificate.That's why i think i know some off this problems.But again on a photo it's always difficult.But the rope is always better to use on your winch then the steel cable.You can resplice it but don't do it as it's explained on the Rockstomper page.I wrote this guy a letter and told him what he should change.but they never answer it.The way he splices it wil reduce the brake strengt of the rope with more then 30 % it can go even up to the 50%.But when the rest of the rope isin a good condition then resplice it.And never expose it to the sun it will kill your rope very soon and you can't see it.
TD5power

[Jay]

TD 5 Power

Thanks for your reply.
Are you using rope or steel calbe?
Have you seen the rope break at all? Well I have an aluminum fairlead and made sure that it the rope will not touch bumper steel at all by grinding a lot of the steel around it.
What it your method of resplicing that would make it stronger?

According to RockStomper these ropes are UV resistant.
Jay

[ISUZUROVER]

The rockstomper method is quick, easy and simple, and should be sufficient for most uses. I disagree that it would be 30-50% weaker.

A better (but more time consuming) method is shown here:
http://www.machovec.com/rope/splicing/8 ... nd2end.htm

[TD5power]

The rockstomper method is quick, easy and simple, and should be sufficient for most uses. I disagree that it would be 30-50% weaker.

A better (but more time consuming) method is shown here:
http://www.machovec.com/rope/splicing/8 ... nd2end.htm

You have no idea where you are talking about.When you are giving some samples for splicing then give the correct ones and not the splicing for an 8 strand rope.the broken rope is a 12 strand one it;s a different method for this type of rope.did you ever test your rope you have no idea when it breaks.I did hundreds of tests on a official testing machine.And had many disscusions with the so called Experts till they saw there self what happend with a rope what was bad spliced.And what was the difference with a rope what was the proper way spliced.
but you don't have to believe me just use your own splices it's fine with me.
Regards Td5 power

[TD5power]

TD 5 Power

Thanks for your reply.
Are you using rope or steel calbe?
Have you seen the rope break at all? Well I have an aluminum fairlead and made sure that it the rope will not touch bumper steel at all by grinding a lot of the steel around it.
What it your method of resplicing that would make it stronger?

According to RockStomper these ropes are UV resistant.
Jay

I use rope.No cables anymore.I use it on a winch with 6.5 tons,real tons tested with a calibrated unster.I have tested hunderds of cables ropes chains etc.yes and i have seen them brake many times.To test a rope you need a very special device and other wise you can't really test it on it breaking strenght.i use a 9 mm Dyneema rope with abreaking strenght off 12,4 tons.before that i used a rope with a braided cover witch had 6,8 tons but that was 6 mm and a 1 mm for the braided cover.But in theorie i could destroy it with my winch so i went for 9 mm.
For what the splices concern ,you have to taper the ends of the splice it self so that the 2 rope parts really end up in a point.The better the point the better you are coming to a 100% breaking strenght off the original rope.i use normally a fid to messure the lenght of the taped part,but with a 9 mm that's about 20 cm.But there a mark. from these 20 cm you have to remove 6 strands off the rope.3 left ones and 3 right ones.You have a 12 strand rope there.Open the rope a little and count the strands.When you look closely you can see that the strands are left turning and right turning.Take from each 3 strands.Then you have 6 left.From these 6 you cut of a small peace starting where you began on the 20 cm mark.From all these 6 strands you cut off a small part.Maybe it's better to explain if i say you have from these 6 witch are left over.1 strenght will have a lenght off 20 cm ,the2 one will be 17.The 3 one will be 12 cm,the 4 will be 8 cm the 5 will be 3 cm and the last one will be close to the20 cm mark.You have to cut it with a sharp knife.Now what is left of that part of the rope looks like a point.You have to tape it with very thin tape.I always use thin painters tape.Then from the 20 cm mark you will wrap the tape arround that point.When you have done it correct you will have a very pointy part of the rope.This you have to do on both of the broken ends.Then use the splice as you can see it on the Rockstomper link.You have to put the rope into the centre of the other rope for about 40 cm.Then you will be fine.
I am not sure if this is clear now.But maybe i can make photo's of it step by step and then its's better to understand.
And in all my life as a tester of ropes i have never seen a rope what is 100% uv resistance.It slows the process down but not more then that.
Regards TD5power

[zzzz]

Hey guys

I was really shocked yesterday while winching myself with my WARN M8274-50 to see the synthetic winch line break. Originally the winch came with wire changed it to synthetic rope from Rock Stomper....yesterday it snaped thanks God I was in a bellied out position not in a position whereI could have rolled over.....
The situation I was in was a belly out on a steep short hill where I could not reverse...
I will contacting RockStomper (USA) today hoping to reach a solution
Apreciate your feedback

Tell us how it broke...
Was the car moving at all whilst winching or was the winch pulling in with the car completely stopped by an object or obstruction?
If it was still moving forward slowly it may of broken due to damage.
If it was stopped then you have probably stressed it beyond it's breaking strain.

This is a pretty important factor to the story as when you are absolutely stuck with no forward motion, you can clearly see the winch line get thinner and thinner as the strain on it increases. Then BAM! it breaks.

Also what angle was the winch line running through the fairlead?
Where did the line break?

Would be interesting to hear more about the exact circumstance it broke under.

cheers

z

[Jay]

Hey guys

I was really shocked yesterday while winching myself with my WARN M8274-50 to see the synthetic winch line break. Originally the winch came with wire changed it to synthetic rope from Rock Stomper....yesterday it snaped thanks God I was in a bellied out position not in a position whereI could have rolled over.....
The situation I was in was a belly out on a steep short hill where I could not reverse...
I will contacting RockStomper (USA) today hoping to reach a solution
Apreciate your feedback

Tell us how it broke...
Was the car moving at all whilst winching or was the winch pulling in with the car completely stopped by an object or obstruction?
If it was still moving forward slowly it may of broken due to damage.
If it was stopped then you have probably stressed it beyond it's breaking strain.

This is a pretty important factor to the story as when you are absolutely stuck with no forward motion, you can clearly see the winch line get thinner and thinner as the strain on it increases. Then BAM! it breaks.

Also what angle was the winch line running through the fairlead?
Where did the line break?

Would be interesting to hear more about the exact circumstance it broke under.

cheers

z

Ok here are the conditions how I was stuck

-Truck was bellied out on rock sliders on a hill climb. So half it was on tope of hill
-I was pulling the truck I was winching on towards me(Disco Dino who s on this website most the time)
-Truck was moving slowly and suddenly the BAM sound. I tought my winch gears went off. It happened before with my older XD 9000 and steel cable the gears went off(they loosened off each other but did not break) and the cable did not break of course

TD 5 Thanks for the technical info....I stuffing my brains trying to understand it. What do you mean by strand I guess the way the rope is coiled....I would very much appreciate some pics....
I will be calling Rockstomper this evening as he has not answered my e-mail I sent monday

[Bush65]

Jay,

You didn't answer the question about where abouts along the rope, (between the winch drum and the anchor point) that the break occurred.

It is also possible that something damaged the rope at that point, previous to this particular recovery.

Regarding strands. The synthetic fibres (or wires of a wire rope) are first bundled (or twisted) into a strand.

For wire rope the strands are twisted together (called layed) to make the rope. The strands may be left hand lay or right hand lay (the twist or helix direction).

Some ropes have both left and right hand lay (in different layers) to reduce rotation (spinning about the axis of the rope) as the rope stretches. These are called non-rotating ropes.

With wire ropes, the wire making up the strand are usually twisted in the opposite direction to that which the stand is layed. This is called Normal Lay. For special mining ropes, the wires are twisted in the same direction as the strands and is called Langs Lay.

Guys used to support towers are usually a single strand (ie not a rope).

With 12 strand synthetic ropes the strands are plaited together, 6 left and 6 right.

[TD5power]

Hey guys

I was really shocked yesterday while winching myself with my WARN M8274-50 to see the synthetic winch line break. Originally the winch came with wire changed it to synthetic rope from Rock Stomper....yesterday it snaped thanks God I was in a bellied out position not in a position whereI could have rolled over.....
The situation I was in was a belly out on a steep short hill where I could not reverse...
I will contacting RockStomper (USA) today hoping to reach a solution
Apreciate your feedback

Tell us how it broke...
Was the car moving at all whilst winching or was the winch pulling in with the car completely stopped by an object or obstruction?
If it was still moving forward slowly it may of broken due to damage.
If it was stopped then you have probably stressed it beyond it's breaking strain.

This is a pretty important factor to the story as when you are absolutely stuck with no forward motion, you can clearly see the winch line get thinner and thinner as the strain on it increases. Then BAM! it breaks.

Also what angle was the winch line running through the fairlead?
Where did the line break?

Would be interesting to hear more about the exact circumstance it broke under.

cheers

z

Ok here are the conditions how I was stuck

-Truck was bellied out on rock sliders on a hill climb. So half it was on tope of hill
-I was pulling the truck I was winching on towards me(Disco Dino who s on this website most the time)
-Truck was moving slowly and suddenly the BAM sound. I tought my winch gears went off. It happened before with my older XD 9000 and steel cable the gears went off(they loosened off each other but did not break) and the cable did not break of course

TD 5 Thanks for the technical info....I stuffing my brains trying to understand it. What do you mean by strand I guess the way the rope is coiled....I would very much appreciate some pics....
I will be calling Rockstomper this evening as he has not answered my e-mail I sent monday

I have a link for you here that's the correct way to splice a 12 strand rope because that's what your using there.Think it's Amsteel Blue from Samson ropes in the USA.
http://www.samsonrope.com/home/pdf/Clas ... nd-End.pdf
Make the taperd ends as i wrote you.As pointy as possible.And the fid lenght is about 200mm.It's a special splicing tool for these ropes.If you stil have trouble let me know.
How much of the rope broke?Could it be that the rope was all to one side of the drum an dthen because of it's wider diameter it contacted a sharp burr or something on the inside.The part where your fairlead is mounted.I have seen this happen at a friends car.He had made a nice wide opening before mounting the fairlead.But one time al the rope was on one side thouched the ruff iron and it snapped.

Regards TD5power

[Jay]

Jay,

You didn't answer the question about where abouts along the rope, (between the winch drum and the anchor point) that the break occurred.

It is also possible that something damaged the rope at that point, previous to this particular recovery.

Regarding strands. The synthetic fibres (or wires of a wire rope) are first bundled (or twisted) into a strand.

For wire rope the strands are twisted together (called layed) to make the rope. The strands may be left hand lay or right hand lay (the twist or helix direction).

Bush 65


Some ropes have both left and right hand lay (in different layers) to reduce rotation (spinning about the axis of the rope) as the rope stretches. These are called non-rotating ropes.

With wire ropes, the wire making up the strand are usually twisted in the opposite direction to that which the stand is layed. This is called Normal Lay. For special mining ropes, the wires are twisted in the same direction as the strands and is called Langs Lay.

Guys used to support towers are usually a single strand (ie not a rope).

With 12 strand synthetic ropes the strands are plaited together, 6 left and 6 right.

The rope borke between the drum and the load.....

[Jay]

Some pics showing condition of the truck being stuck not too hard I think
Awaiting your feedbback

TD 5 going through the SAMSON article you sent what do they mearn by Fids...

[Bush65]

Jay,

You didn't answer the question about where abouts along the rope, (between the winch drum and the anchor point) that the break occurred.

It is also possible that something damaged the rope at that point, previous to this particular recovery.

Regarding strands. The synthetic fibres (or wires of a wire rope) are first bundled (or twisted) into a strand.

For wire rope the strands are twisted together (called layed) to make the rope. The strands may be left hand lay or right hand lay (the twist or helix direction).

Bush 65


Some ropes have both left and right hand lay (in different layers) to reduce rotation (spinning about the axis of the rope) as the rope stretches. These are called non-rotating ropes.

With wire ropes, the wire making up the strand are usually twisted in the opposite direction to that which the stand is layed. This is called Normal Lay. For special mining ropes, the wires are twisted in the same direction as the strands and is called Langs Lay.

Guys used to support towers are usually a single strand (ie not a rope).

With 12 strand synthetic ropes the strands are plaited together, 6 left and 6 right.

The rope borke between the drum and the load.....

Jay, people have been trying to help you here. You have not given enough information.

You can't be bothered to answer that question in a meaningful way and I can't be bothered spending any more time on you

[ISUZUROVER]

Wow - don't see you get mad often John.

I think Jay doesn't want to give away the real story until he has heard back from rockstomper about getting a free replacement (fat chance IMO).

From looking at the pictures I think the winch would have been under a hell of a lot of load if the disco was on its chassis ane the back wheels had to climb that step.

[Jay]

Wow - don't see you get mad often John.

I think Jay doesn't want to give away the real story until he has heard back from rockstomper about getting a free replacement (fat chance IMO).

From looking at the pictures I think the winch would have been under a hell of a lot of load if the disco was on its chassis ane the back wheels had to climb that step.

Bush 65

I did answer your question where the rope broke it was further away from the drum as I mentioned check above.

In addition i have posted many pics to be as clear as possible. I am posting to have your opinion as this the first time I face such a thing and I am willing to learn through sharing of know how which you did about having the rope fixed.

Ben
My pics are crystal clear nothing else I want to hide...I have already posted on Pirate4x4 and am contacting RockStomper

Please let me know if there where there was a misunderstanding or an e-mail miscommunication issue to fix it.

Regards
Jay

[ISUZUROVER]

Bush 65

I did answer your question where the rope broke it was further away from the drum as I mentioned check above.

In addition i have posted many pics to be as clear as possible. I am posting to have your opinion as this the first time I face such a thing and I am willing to learn through sharing of know how which you did about having the rope fixed.

Regards
Jay

Jay - I think what bill wants to know is some real info, like:

How much rope was off the drum?
How far from the fairlead to the break point when the break occurred?
How far was the rope from the ground when the break occurred?
etc, etc...

[Jay]

Bush 65

I did answer your question where the rope broke it was further away from the drum as I mentioned check above.

In addition i have posted many pics to be as clear as possible. I am posting to have your opinion as this the first time I face such a thing and I am willing to learn through sharing of know how which you did about having the rope fixed.

Regards
Jay

Jay - I think what bill wants to know is some real info, like:

How much rope was off the drum?
How far from the fairlead to the break point when the break occurred?
How far was the rope from the ground when the break occurred?
etc, etc...

Ok Ben I will measure these and feed back

[DiscoDino]

[/quote]

Jay - I think what bill wants to know is some real info, like:

How much rope was off the drum?
How far from the fairlead to the break point when the break occurred?
How far was the rope from the ground when the break occurred?
etc, etc...[/quote]

Well, it happened in front of my eyes, so I know

1. ~9-11m off the drum
2. ~1m away, maybe less
3. ~1m off the ground

For what its worth, the winch engine did not strain, the front suspension did not MASSIVELY compress, and the rear wheels did start to dig in the hill side (had to inpect whether the fender was going to hit some bush roots)...so yeah, its a weird break, but I don't that at that particular pull did any weird damage occur...

Again, my rope (3/8) is a couple of years older, been used in rivers, mud, sand, and I have truely abused it and it has yet to dissappoint me...

So what do you think? I know that Scott will eventually get to Jay, he's probably breaking something in Moab

[tony cordell]

Well I snapped my 9.5mm rope this weekend
after it got stuck in a pulley block
we respliced and carried on.
the rope later in the same day was pulling just as good as it did when new.
the only difference is no one was hurt when it did snap.
any disadvantages are far out wieghed by a few breakages
normally from abuse/damage IMHO

[Jay]

I respliced my rope and used it this weekend.
I talked to Rockstomper(Scott) and he suggested he needed to see the rope....but suggested I resplice it and test it first...Scott also offered a discount off the 3/8" rope
So far it is doing well winched myslef out twice last weekend....