best way to hold springs in at full travel

Post by **bucketofbolts** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:53 pm

i'm after some ideals on spring retainers, at full travel my springs are ready to pop out, i don't want to buy different shocks, im happy with the travel, any help would be good, pics would be great

Post by **Slayer** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:22 pm

limiting straps are the obvious solution but i have also seen people weld a sort of C shaped hook to the perch that wraps around the top and bottom coil... i think nams buggy has somethin like this..

Post by **Thor** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:17 am

i think those C shape hooks are the obvious solution to be honest.

pictures from here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthre ... highlight=

Post by **zzzz** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:21 am

bucketofbolts wrote:i'm after some ideals on spring retainers, at full travel my springs are ready to pop out, i don't want to buy different shocks, im happy with the travel, any help would be good, pics would be great

Anyone using their shocks to limit travel is just asking for trouble.
As mentioned limited straps are a great idea as are coil retainers top and bottom.
You just need to make sure whatever you mount up is strong

cheers

z

Post by **Slunnie** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:03 am

zzzz wrote:Anyone using their shocks to limit travel is just asking for trouble.

Thats how most factory setups work. If the spring pressure is minimal (ie shock length matched to the spring and not dislocating) or off the shock it wont be a problem.

Post by **ludacris** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:38 pm

What about a bit of weld an inch long on apposite sides.

A 6mm flat plate across the midle and a bolt throuhg the guts.

ludaCris

Post by **ISUZUROVER** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:50 pm

zzzz wrote:
bucketofbolts wrote:i'm after some ideals on spring retainers, at full travel my springs are ready to pop out, i don't want to buy different shocks, im happy with the travel, any help would be good, pics would be great
Anyone using their shocks to limit travel is just asking for trouble.
As mentioned limited straps are a great idea as are coil retainers top and bottom.
You just need to make sure whatever you mount up is strong

cheers

z

My shocks have been limiting my front travel for years. Broke a shock eye once but that is all. Re-welded and no problems since. If your shocks are strong enough then it is fine.

Post by **Daisy** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:23 pm

ludacris wrote:What about a bit of weld an inch long on apposite sides.

A 6mm flat plate across the midle and a bolt throuhg the guts.

ludaCris

thats how most range rovers have em setup

On the homeless rover buggy we welded tabs at the bottom to retain the springs and ran some 'cones' at the top to relocate them when they started to compress.

zzzz wrote:
Anyone using their shocks to limit travel is just asking for trouble

how would you do it then?? to limit travel?

Most rigs are setup with shocks to limit wheeltravel.. even from factory..

Post by **zzzz** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:35 pm

Slunnie wrote:
zzzz wrote:Anyone using their shocks to limit travel is just asking for trouble.
Thats how most factory setups work. If the spring pressure is minimal (ie shock length matched to the spring and not dislocating) or off the shock it wont be a problem.

We are talking about a modified suspension design and not one within factory specifications.

Perhaps I should of qualified my statement a little and said when designing limiting factors into highly flexible suspension setups I wouldn't use the shock as the limiter.

With the right design and high misalignment joints everywhere the suspension can easily flex enough to break the shock mounting points etc.

Post by **EARSEZOOK** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:59 pm

try the right length shocks.

Post by **Slunnie** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:24 pm

Yep, if the shocks are the right length they still wont break assuming the geometry doesn't snap them.

Post by **POS** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:58 pm

So what you guys are saying is that if the springs allow for the tyre to say drop 18 inches and you have a 10 inch shock on it than thats ok???

Yeah good luck!

Yes it may last a few trips but that would be about it!

I agree with Zach.

Also look at what holds the eyes of the shocks on, just a couple of little tack welds.

Post by **Bush65** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:08 am

POS wrote:So what you guys are saying is that if the springs allow for the tyre to say drop 18 inches and you have a 10 inch shock on it than thats ok???

Yeah good luck!

Yes it may last a few trips but that would be about it!

I agree with Zach.

Also look at what holds the eyes of the shocks on, just a couple of little tack welds.

The coil sprung vehicles that I am familiar with do just this. If you have had such bad experiences as you imply, then it is probably due to bootie fab, not unretained springs

Many modify their rovers to retain the springs, so as not to drop away. But this is done to improve stability and to balance the way the front and rear suspension articulates.

The threaded part of a pin mount shockie shoud be more than adequate for the loads, if they are direct tension - ie. not combined with bending due to bad alignment of the mounts.

Many hang there vehicles off suspect 8mm winch ropes, which see more load than a shockie with a stronger shaft (than the winch rope) that only has to hold some of the weight of a wheel, tyre and axle.

Post by **Bush65** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:25 am

bucketofbolts wrote:i'm after some ideals on spring retainers, at full travel my springs are ready to pop out, i don't want to buy different shocks, im happy with the travel, any help would be good, pics would be great

This is not unusual.

Many advocate using drop out cones (and the like) with long travel suspension. The spings drop out of their seats when the wheel droops and the cone guides the spring back into the seat.

In my opinion is better to retain coil springs to both top and bottom seats. This improves stability in off camber situations and generally makes the front articulation better balanced with the rear. Limit straps can achieve the same affects.

With some vehicles it is possible to use worm drive hose clamps to retain the springs. It is bootie fab, but it works for many people.

Post by **Wendle** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:36 am

if it is for the nissan in your avatar, you can just make up some plates and bolt the springs in with them. get under there and have a look, it isn't a hard job.

Post by **mud4b** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 11:04 am

POS wrote:So what you guys are saying is that if the springs allow for the tyre to say drop 18 inches and you have a 10 inch shock on it than thats ok???

Yeah good luck!

Yes it may last a few trips but that would be about it!

I agree with Zach.

Also look at what holds the eyes of the shocks on, just a couple of little tack welds.

ive been doing this for around 4 years now... and never had a prob bending or breaking shocks....my spring is retained from the chassis and the diff drops away... now before you all fry me on this, i know its not the way its meant to work and really shouldnt be done this way...

BUT IT WORKS WELL ENOUGH FOR ME FOR NOW..

Post by **Slunnie** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:13 pm

POS wrote:So what you guys are saying is that if the springs allow for the tyre to say drop 18 inches and you have a 10 inch shock on it than thats ok???

Thats not what being said at all. What is being said, is that if the shock is matched to the spring length/camber then it wont break.

Post by **bucketofbolts** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:24 pm

yeah its the GQ in the aviator, will do that, with a couple of bits of plate

Post by A1 » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:06 pm

Heres some PICs for Ya of retaining plates fitted to 2 GQ shortys (WELL MAVS

)

Got the IDEA and how to off Wendle a while back

I have a different setup in the front of mine compared to Wendles OLD rig now NAMs buggy well MUGGY

) but does the same job i just didnt need the bumpstop setup due to still having a radius arm front compared to Wendles 5link .........................can get pics if your interested ..........

Dan

Post by A1 » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:10 pm

MY POS

Post by **bucketofbolts** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:53 pm

thanx dan, thats what i had in mind, to plate over the last coil, thanx for the pics, ray

Post by **Doggy** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:29 pm

Silicone and cable ties

They will fix anything

Post by **customhilux** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:41 pm

how about this.

Outer Limits 4x4 Board