Diff & Diff locks on TF Rodeos

[rainsey]

Folks,

(Back on line after a long absence... body lift went well but computer blew up... just can't win)

I need your worldley no bullshit advice. I cannot seem to get a straight answer from vendors and resellers so out to the forum..

What I have.. Build date January 1998 TF R7 2.8 Diesel Dual Cab Rodeo.

What I want is.. rear or front diff locker

What I have been told... No air locker available for my model front or back.. TJM no longer suppply the front locker for my model as of the last 6 months.. all that is available is 4WD Systems lokka for front (told to saty away from this).

Oh.. and looks like LSD is stuffed!

Question:-

1: There are two flavors of rear diff... 194,, ring and 220 mm ring. Is there an idiots way of identifying what one I have without dissasembly?

2: If no air locker or TJM Lockright from my model.. will say a 2000 TF front or rear diff and axle assemble just bolt in?
I.E same track, same ratio same....

3: Do I just get LSD rebuilt and give up on extra traction on my specific model?

Yours having no idea what to do

Rainsey

[Utemad]

Hi Rainsey,

I looked into diff locks once but did nothing about it. Recently I have once again entertained the idea of a front one.

Keeping in mind this is for my 1997 2.6L petrol (your shape)

From my research I have found that you can get a Lokka for the front but not the rear (even though their site says a rear is available).

You can get a rear air locker but not a front for the 1997/98 Rodeos. Apparently the 97/98 models have an unidentified 3rd member however one can be swapped from a pre 96 or post 99 inclusive model. Although I have been unable to find out (even from ARB) what a third member is and what is different about them. Some say it is a swap the diff job and other say it is the entire diff and housing while others have no idea whatsoever.

I have not seen any other type of locker suitable for my ute. You mention TJM but when I rang them about 1 year ago they said they do not have one to suit my vehicle.

My LSD still works fine. Has 174k on it.

I'd appreciate you posting any info you find.

[rainsey]

Utemad,

Trust me... any info I find I will more than gladly share as this particular topic has been bugging me for yonks (that is a technical term by the way).

Now you have just highlighted my frustration. My local ARB reseller has told me that there is no air locker available fornt for rear form my 98. The info you have is that there is.

I contacted a wrecker today who will sell me a 2000 model front axle assembley for $750 (diff and cv's included). If worst comes to worst I will buy this and then save up for an air locker.

Spoke to ARB this arvo who are contacting Melbourne tomorrow what will go with what (in my case at least anyway). He also recomeded that I go rear not front so as to preserve CV's and so on and so on.

So needless to say I am absolutely confused.

Cheers

Rainsey

[Utemad]

Perhaps the diesel and petrol rear diffs are different?

I was also advised to get a rear air locker over the front by ARB. ARB guy reckons that most of the drive is through the rear. Which I am sure it is when going up hills. However I want a front locker as the rear LSD works great and a front locker will compliment that over rutted terrain where I normally get crossed up and stop. Plus if I get a front Lokka it won't matter so much as we I have free wheeling hubs. Also I am sure ARBs opinion is greatly biased as they do not sell front lockers for my model

[dani4JB1T]

From my research I have found that you can get a Lokka for the front but not the rear (even though their site says a rear is available).

what I understand is:

194mm is 10 bolt diff
220mm is 12 bolt diff (wider and bigger axle case)

so, Lokka is maded just for 10 bolts diff. 4ZD1 2.3L petrol engines comes with 10/10 or 8/10 diffs (like was mine). If you have 10/10 combination you can fit lokka in the front and the rear. But Lokka doesn`t work on 12 bolts, because the axle in 10 bolts diffs has 17 splines. In 12 bolts diffs the axle has 26 splines (stronger).

In theory all 2.8 TD 4bees (except 87-88 Troopers) have 10/12 bolts diff, so...Rainsey... I bet you have 12 bolts in the rear. I have found the only way to know what you have without dissasembly is comparing both diff cases (i`m going to take a few pics for show you).

I have fitted rear 12 bolts with LSD in my ute looking for a future ARB, and soon the 10 bolts in the front looking for Lokka.

So...one question on LSD....what is the lock percentage of this device ??? and how can I modify it ???


cheers

[Utemad]

So...one question on LSD....what is the lock percentage of this device ??? and how can I modify it ???

Not sure on the specs but I know it can be tightened. With my smaller tyres on the rear wheels will chirp or hop when I turn out of my driveway as if they are not differentialing properly. They don't do this with the bigger tyres though.

Smaller tyres are 29in and bigger ones are 31in.

My owners handbook just says:
Front: Banjo 1.4L
Rear: Limited slip diff 1.8L plus LSD additive 1 bottle
4.555:1
SAE 85W/140

I am assuming that because the rear takes .4L more oil plus the bottle of LSD additive that I must have a 10 bolt front and a 12 bolt rear.

Oh what fun.

[Guzzi]

Rainsy, Ute mad, Dan
From what I can find out from my workshop manual, its 10 bolt front and 12 bolt rear.
front diff' 4jb1t engine diff ratio 4.555 194mm oil cap 1.5lt
194mm = 10bolt

rear diff 4jb1t engine, diff ratio 4.555, 220mm oil cap 1.8 lt
220mm = 12bolt.

Lokka make a diff lock for the 10 bolt AFAIK which is why on their ad page under rear it says "some", this will also fit in the front 10 bolt diff.

As to what too do?
Fit lokka in front and get your LSD serviced and tightened up.
This is basically what Im doing, just got to get down to Rodeos in scone to pick up his front diff when he takes it out.

Not many other options available as we lack the toyota moneypit badge.
Or follow Rodeos lead and fit nissan axles front and rear.

[rainsey]

Folks,

Now to add fuel to the fire..... two days ago I yet again contacted ARB State Office and got hold of a guy called Rob. While on the phone I got under my bonnet and read the details off my compliance plate and the build date of the jap plate next to it. This way I could not get ay detail wrong!!

He was confused as I was re the ARB table of air lockers and contacted head office with the details. A phone call from him today (I was thinking the worst) was that the ARB air locker can be fitted to the front and rear of my truck!!! The RD94 for the front and the RD44 for the rear. I indicated there were two rear diff sizes and he stated.. no problem.

This has come from the horses mouth!!!

Come on tax cheque and I am going to test their ability to know their own product!!

Watch this space!!

Cheers

Rainsey

[Utemad]

I was surprised how well my LSD worked.

This pic shows how I got out of a big hole. I had dropped the front left wheel into a hole and the ute was sitting on the chassis just behind that wheel. This was just after I had learnt how my LSD worked. So I went searching and found this big lump of wood and jammed it behind the rear right wheel. It was too big too fit under the wheel so I wedged it into the back of the tyre as best I could. I then got back into the ute put it into low reverse and it just idled out. Originally it had just spun the wheels in the air

[rainsey]

Utemad....

You just did a body lift did you not??? Question for you..

Your tow bar...

I have to replace mine as it is how do I put it... stuffed... and I want to lift any new one up that I get to account for the body lift. I am told by every tow bar dealer I speak to that legally I cannot. Insurance liability and that crap.

I notice that yours is right up to the body. Did you do it or is this the standard fitting??

Yet another thing I need to do.

Cheers

Rainsey

[Utemad]

I did just do a body lift however the photo above was taken over 1 year ago. I haven't lifted my towbar at all.

However Nev62 from this board lifted his on his Ford Raider. Have a look in this thread.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=38163

Good news about the air lockers. Let us know how you go!

[Utemad]

You could always ask a towbar manufacturer if they would make one for you? Might get costly though.

[rainsey]

Bugger..

Re the tow bar manufacturers.. all I have contacted state that they must build to ADR regs. Once I mention 50mm off the height of their mountings they run scared..

I'll keep trying... Pisses me off though.. want to go out with my club on the weekend and do not have any rear recovery points.

Such is life.... I live to prove everyone wrong!!

Cheers

Rainsey

[Utemad]

If you need recovery points Rodeos have them standard front and rear. The front is bolted under the chassis rail on the drivers side and the rear is a funny looking twisted affair bolted to the underneath of the drivers side chassis rail on a little angle down bracket. Both have captive nuts.

I just bought some from the wreckers as mine had been removed when the towbar and bullbar were fitted and were lost.

[dani4JB1T]

Extremely great news guys....cheers for that one !!!!

[rainsey]

Well Folks,

I am about to test the waters... I have just puchased my ARB locker only compressor (brilliant little thing, only cost $160) from my local distributor who has spoken to ARB and has agreed that an air locker will go in after all.

Once I get the compressor mounted where I want it, the truck gets a LSDadectomy, and the installation of a new air locker.
Watch these pages for the outcome.... will there be tears when they get the truck up, pull the diff apart.. and take back what they think!! My sphinctor will be clenched waiting for their verdict!!

Cheers

Rainsey

[Utemad]

Good luck with it. I'd be very surprised if the rear didn't fit. Can't see it being any different to the V6 or 4cyl diff.

[dani4JB1T]

good luck mate !!!

cheers

[dani4JB1T]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HOLDEN-RODEO-JAC ... dZViewItem

[Utemad]

Is that guy serious?

My ARB catalogue has the RD44 at $1195rrp. Since that is rrp surely nobody actually pays even that much.

What did you pay Rainsey?

[rainsey]

I have ordered it...

Installed $1440. I did the compressor install myself so this is the locker only supply and install. ARB rrp for full install $1505.

You are correct, rrp on locker only is $1195... what was that saying in the movie "the Castle".... $1200.... tell them them dreaming...


Hopefully will have it in next week. A recon at a local state forest today showed that ground clearence is no longer an issue but the traction is..

Cheers

Rainsey

[Unit]

In my jackaroo (94) i had the rear diff clutch gears tightened to around 55% now the diff is real tight if i give it a few revs while taking a tight corner it chirps the inside wheel but it sure does make a difference when it counts on the weekend i had the rear left wheel off the ground about 60cm and it still pulled it out in 2wd

the guy who adjusted my diff said that a new lsd is locked at around 60% but as they wear it goes up he told me that mine would have to be at around 65 - 70% to fully lock it

[Utemad]

How much did it cost you to have it tightened?

Did you remove it yourself?

I assume the lower the percentage the more locked your diff is?

[GOT MUD]

In my jackaroo (94) i had the rear diff clutch gears tightened to around 55% now the diff is real tight if i give it a few revs while taking a tight corner it chirps the inside wheel but it sure does make a difference when it counts on the weekend i had the rear left wheel off the ground about 60cm and it still pulled it out in 2wd

the guy who adjusted my diff said that a new lsd is locked at around 60% but as they wear it goes up he told me that mine would have to be at around 65 - 70% to fully lock it

were did you get your lsd done pm me if your not keen on posting it up
cheers

[Unit]

i got my diff done by a diff lapping dude i can't remember what company it was it only cost me $180 for both diffs serviced and the back tightened

and the higher the percentage (tighter) the clutch gear the tighter the diff

[Utemad]

Hmmmmmmmmm sounds very temptng to get the rear tightened. However I'm trying to stop spending money on my Rodeo. I reckon I'm going to sell it at the end of the year and buy a ........................................................................ V8 Discovery

This is subject to change without notice though of course

[GOT MUD]

i got my diff done by a diff lapping dude i can't remember what company it was it only cost me $180 for both diffs serviced and the back tightened

and the higher the percentage (tighter) the clutch gear the tighter the diff

can you remember if it was a local mob to you ie caboolture/morayfield and did you just take the centres in or the truck and they take them out
cheers