Painting Steel Trays...HELP NEEDED

[Toyo Truck]

Hi Guys,

The time has come to spray my fully sic custom steel tray.
It is gettin a little bit of surface rust and it would look HEAPS better if it
was just all black. See pics and you'll know what I mean.

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?id=7627

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?id=7632

I was gonna used spray cans, but this will = $$$$
I was thinking the cheapest way to go would be with a spray gun.
I havn't got alot of experience with spray guns, but I have used one before.
I have a 21L 2.5HP compressor in the garage, would it be OK to hire a gun from somewhere? Or should I just buy a moderately priced one from supercheap??

How much would it cost in paint? How many litres do I need to get?
What is the best black to use on a tray?
(it WILL get smashed and scratched and dirty)
so I'm thinking something with a bit of anti-corrosion properties?
How many coats should I put on?

What is the best/easiest way to prepare the tray surface and roll bar for painting?? My mate says use a flap disk or a wire brush to scale off all the surface rust, will this work well enough to get all the dirt and stuff off it for painting??

Cheers,
Bart

[83 lux]

thats one insane tray

i paint every thing i do with spary cans
they are cheap enough $3-$5 a can and you might go thou 3-4 thats cheap
AND EASY

I say use a spray can

[bru21]

all paint will chip. why not galvanise it.

That said never hire a spray gun as one mor than adequate can be had for around the $50 mark (less if its a bottom feed) but i only use gravity feed as bottom feed need to be half full to spray at angles and that means throwing away 2 pack.

the best primer period is hichem etch primer from supercheap it is perfect, sticks like shite to a blanket, fends off rust quite well and is thin and tough enough to reduce chipping of the top coat. (no other primer is as good for bare steel i have tested over $600 worth of different etch primers a few years back when i painted zinc handles for the caravan industry.)

if you are on the cheap enamel is good as your dog can spray it to a gloss, is reusable (in bottom feeders) and is easy to touch up later. but it never sets all that hard. its like 20 a litre and you will need 1+ at a guess. not petrol resistant.

i never use anything other than 2 pack, sprays much like enamel, sets rock hard (cannot be reused, harder to touch up) but is the best wearing fullest coloured and petrol proof but is more than double the price

i wouldn't spray acrylic with someone elses gun with someone elses money. strictly for hot rods where time, prep is a1 and zero orange peel is required (after 10 coats and buffing).

[Toyo Truck]

83 lux,
I too like spray cans but they arn't the best. Definately easiest though!
I originally did the whole bottom of the tray in black
and that used about 3 cans, but it just doesn't last all that
good. You can see where I sprayed etch primer on the welds
so they didn't get too badly rusted up, that was with cans too.
I want a more lasting effect from the paint this time round.
So I thought the spray gun would be better.

Bru21,
can you reccomend any brands or models of spray gun that would
be good for general booty fab touch ups?? Do I need a gravity feeder?
or will a bottom feeder be OK. which is easier to prepare/clean?
I like the sound of the enamel, cheap and easy. but better than cans
right?? Will this give me a similar result to using the cans but a little
better??

Thanks heaps for your info guys!

Cheers,
Bart

[ratboy]

2pac cost about $100 if u do it your self

[bru21]

for slightly thinned out enamel i would use

http://www.tradetools.com.au/ProdView.a ... =S106T%2fJ

for less $$$ maybe

http://www.tradetools.com.au/ProdView.a ... RP8100-100

also the needle size is better meaning less thinners and happier painting.

one of theese
http://www.tradetools.com.au/ProdView.a ... ct=S106-2G

will do you for life, top loading good needle size and can be adjusted to paint 2" tube right up to full car resprays. I have used 3 so far and swear by them.

spies hecker make good paint, hi chem from super cheap good undercoat, and a general purpose thinners will cater for both.

enamel is a shite load better that rattle cans of any breed.

rattle cans contain very little actual paint so every coat evaporates to 1/8 of its thickness. enamel is more like 1/3, acrylic 1/6, and my favourite two pack close to 1/1.

basically all paint that cures by evaporation needs to be low resin content in order to reduce the viscosity to spray. acrylic momomer for example can only be dissloved at about 5% before the viscosity is like honey. 2k gets around this by setting by crosslinking meaning both are sprayed befor the polymer chains are long (hence low viscosity at high resin levels)

hope that helps

cheers bru

ps the hi chem primer is not a really filler based primer and can be sprayed through .8 + nozzels so any gun will be fine no filler gun needed

cheers again

edit to add-

top fillers are far easier to clean as you don't have to scrub that tube, fill it with a wasteful amount of thinners etc like a bottom feeder.

spray some thinners after all the paint has been tipped out till the spray is clean, dissasemble the nozzle and clean with a toothbrush and thinners, remove the needle and clean it too and replace it all. avoid leaving thinners in the gun as it can damage the seals or plastic pots long term

cheers bru

[Toyo Truck]

Cheers for the sweet info dude!
For such a small price difference, I may as well go for the S106-2G.
What is the difference between the 1.7mm needle version and the 2.8mm
needle version? Does this mean you can run thicker paint through it?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of a 1.7mm needle vs the 2.8mm?

If the S106-2G is adjustable and can do all different stuff, then I'll probably get more use out of it anyway.
I presume one type of gun will do enamel, 2pak and acrylic? or is this
wrong?

I will try to get spies hecker paint, but who sells it in Sydney??
Do supercheap sell it as well as the hichem etch primer?

That makes sense about the rattle cans cause you gotta go over it 4-5
times to get a good coat without runs.

"basically all paint that cures by evaporation needs to be low resin content in order to reduce the viscosity to spray. acrylic momomer for example can only be dissloved at about 5% before the viscosity is like honey. 2k gets around this by setting by crosslinking meaning both are sprayed befor the polymer chains are long (hence low viscosity at high resin levels) "

What ratio thinners to enamel is best for me to use on the tray??

Sorry for all the questions, but I have been wanting to know more about
spraying for ages.

Cheers,
Bart

[bru21]

mate that gun is tops. they sell the same / similar one a supercheap ans i have use 2 of them they are spot on. they had a pack with 2 guns (a 1.7 and a 2.8) for $150 very good buying. they also sell the needle and tip for the 1.7 and to change it to 2.8 as well but the two guns works out like $10 dearer.

you can spray all paint types with a 1.7. a 2.8 is for spray putty whick if you use will need the bigger nozzle (and be of a type that is ok for enamel) as enamel take 24hrs to set to 80% hardness it is hard on the primer as it can soften it (as does 2k which takes ~8hrs to 80% hard). the hi chem one is good as it is an epoxy base and is pretty stable. other than that a 2k primer will work too. or one specifically for use with enamel.

i wouldn't recommend a putty as it make for a soft layer and is the same as sitting on a sheet of ice above a bed! use the hi chem and the 1.7!

the 2.8 can't really spray paint without lots of skill as the droplets are too big and unless you spray to a severe orangepeel (look at a factory falcon / commo and aim for a tad more than that. factory paint these days is shocking as the layers are added and never rubbed back showing a decent peel) it will run. Remember that with enemel a light orange peel is the go and it will gloss over the 24 hours. spraying to gloss off the gun on anything but a flat surface will run for sure!

i can't remember the thinners level at a guess i would say 10%, but whatever works i always go by feel as the paint differs so much saying a set amount is never right. too thin will run. some add 10% to 2k i never add any so its up to the painter, ask what the local shop reccomends. also spray out of direct sunlight and well befor dew point as it can bloom or go hazey milky like.

spray one coat starting at all the hard parts first like corners under sides, bits near the centre than work out finishing on the seen faces. wait 20 than repeat, wat 20 than repeat if it needs it.

mate i will anser any q's you dish out that what these forums are for so no apoligies needed

cheers

bru

[coxy321]

So which of those guns would you recommend for spraying a primer/filler onto a car? (Doing a bare metal job on my ute). A panel beater is doing the actual colour, we're just doing the dints/rust/primer.

Cheers - Coxy

[coxy321]

So which of those guns would you recommend for spraying a primer/filler onto a car? (Doing a bare metal job on my ute). A panel beater is doing the actual colour, we're just doing the dints/rust/primer.

Cheers - Coxy

[coxy321]

So which of those guns would you recommend for spraying a primer/filler onto a car? (Doing a bare metal job on my ute). A panel beater is doing the actual colour, we're just doing the dints/rust/primer.

Cheers - Coxy

[bru21]

same gun 2.4mm nozzle. don't rub the car back to bare metal unless its like a 1970 or older. new cars have a greencoat on the steel which is one of the reasons why modern cars don't rust as bad, if you see green stop.

ensure the undercoat you use is compatable with the top coat. top coat isn'tany harder to spray really. badly applied undercoat can cause more problems than bad top coat due to sinking, uneven orange peel etc.

cheers bru

[spazbot]

if ur going to use a spray gun i just goto bunnings and buy one of thier cheapies , then goto auto one etc and buy a few l of gmh black and use that easy as, dont bother with 2pac etc its a tray it will get scratched with cheap paint etc u dont have to worry bout it u just touch it up every now and then,

spray cans will work out cheaper in the end if u dont have the spray gear and u can always pick up a std color from bunnings etc, lot cheaper than droping $150+ on guns and paint etc

[bru21]

i slid my 2k tray on many a tree and the marks buff right out. no one disses 2k on my watch

each to their own. enamel isn't that strong but a paint brush gives a lovely touch up

[Toyo Truck]

spaz,
dude I already bought this 2.5HP 21L compresser from supercheap and
a rattle gun, but the rattle gun didn't even take my wheel nuts off!
It just sat the making that "Rattle" sound doin nothing.

So I put it down and havn't used it since.
I was thinking if I get the gun, I can do the underside too.
just like in the car yards on Parramatta Road!!
"c'mon on out to Parramatta, and walk down auto alley"!

but yeah, I will get use out of it.

Oh and bru,
during preparation to spray,
do I need to sand it all back to steel? there is a little bit of surface
rust (see pics) on the bar and a small amount on the tray surface.
What is the best thing to use? a wire brush or a flap disk or whatever?
And should I get the ones that hook into the drill, or into the grinder?
or do I have to use sand paper (please say no)
and after sanding, how do you get all the dust off without stuffing
the surface for paint? just hose it down and dry it out or what?
Whats the best process generally for these things.

cheers,
Bart

[bru21]

mate elbow grease might be involved! use emory tape and wrap it around twice so quick if it good tape. or use a s/steel wire brush on the angle grinder. rub it with wax and grease remover it is gold, or a bit of dishwashing liquid and water rinse fully. after undercoat a very light rub with 400 grit wet and dry not carborundum brand it is shit. use 3m or norton or the one with the rhino on it. all that is needed a touch of dishwashing liquid and water to cut the finger grease rinse and let dry.

cheers bru

[Toyo Truck]

Cheers dude,

goin shopping tommorrow for the air gun,
Do I just go into the spray shops and ask for a
STAR GRAVITY FEED SPRAY GUN
Model Number S106-2G with 1.7MM NEEDLE?
Or should I just get the replica cheapy version from
supercheap, or is ther STAR gun sold at supercheap??

What would be a good paint shop chain that is in Sydney
where I could purchase one?
Any Sydney guys know a good place to get supplies?

cheers,
Bart

[bru21]

mate any gravity 1.5-1.9mm gun will do. i have never seen a bad one. i would go the supercheap or the star. supercheap has some with an ally pot on top instead of nylon, i would grab that if its the same price.

also be sure that the air vent on the top of the pot is clear, as a blocked one will reduce/stop paint feed


paint suppliers i can't help you with i am on the sunny coast and its all little fellas up here!

cheers bru