Dropping a 86 5spd into an 83 MQ?

[RMP&O]

Yes I know I can find all the info I need around here if I dig deep. Call me lazy!

Just post some link if you like for me to read up on or you could always type up some info here....hehe.

Anyways, I got a 5spd from a 1986 Safari. At least that is what I think it came from. Maybe it was from a Nissan big truck, can't reall recall at the moment. I do know the 5spd was bolted to an ED33. I was told it has the same bolt pattern, spline count and so forth as the earlier 4spd. I got this 5spd out of New Zealand. So what I wanna know is....

How can I tell if this 5spd I have will bolt to my SD33? The tranny/transfer case looks to be a match. Bell housing the same, ect. Same goes for the shaft length and spline count. But I am unsure. What is the best way to tell if the 5spd will mate to my motor? I know the 5spd is longer thus needs custom tranny mounts on the inside frame rails. That is not my concern, that is the easy part. My concern is the shaft length, spline count, bolt pattern and shifter. Can I just take some measurements of the 5spd since it is sitting here on a pallet? Would these measurements tell me if this thing will indeed go into my 1983 SD33 SWB Patrol? The 5spd I have is in top shape, damn near looks fully rebuilt. It is complete from bellhousing to parking brake assembly and it has a PTO box bolted to the side.

Here is a picture or two of the 5spd....




and here is a few pics of the Patrol I want to drop it into....





Any advice/help/links??

[RMP&O]

nobody knows...?

I read up here on OL regaurding the swap. But didn't find anything specific regarding what I have. I am pretty sure the ED33 is the same as the SD33 just a 4 banger not a 6 banger. It somebody could confirm what I should check to see if this 5spd will go in my MQ it would save me heaps of headaches. I know about the pop shafts and the tranny mounts. I don't know about the shaft and the bolt pattern...

[V8Patrol]

Yes I know I can find all the info I need around here if I dig deep. Call me lazy!

LAZY

[V8Patrol]

Sorry Ian ..... couldnt resist that one

Ok differances time.....

The bellhousing is of no value to you, it will push the motor way forward or the box transfer comb way back leaving the rear shaft around a foot long

The std SD33 belhousing is only around 3" thick, the one in your pick looks more like 5-6 inches !

What I cant remember is if theres a differance in the length of the input shaft ( there is between the petrol and diesel shafts .... bout 3/8 of an inch with the petrol shaft being the longer unit )

So .......

I'll have to get the camera out n tape measure for a few comparosin shots ........

back shortly !


Kingy

[RMP&O]

hey hey Kingy

Well, lazy was for sure when I posted. But I read up on the swap around here after my moment of laziness. Then few days later I got more motivated. I measured a bunch just yesterday. Thing is my 4spd is bolted up in the truck and I didn't want to have to pull it to figure this out.

The bellhousing on the 5spd is for sure different. You are totally correct Kingy, it is about 5 1/2 inches thick. The starter is not the same between whatever engine this 5spd came from and my SD33. Yet, the bolt pattern is the same, for the bell housing at least. I can't tell if it is same from tranny to bellhousing without pulling my 4spd but I assume it will match. The 5spd pictured supposedly was bolted to a diesel, I was told an ED33. So the shaft shouldn't be of the petrol variety. I think the shaft is what it is coming down to here....it's length, diameter and spline count. The rest is pretty much figured out, ie bolt pattern, tranny mounts, prop shaft lengths. So any help figuring out the shaft on the 5spd compared to the 4spd without pulling the 4spd would be awesome. And if the shaft is the hang up what could be done to solve the prob? Such as having the shaft machined on the 5spd to mate to the SD33?

[V8Patrol]

Cant upload pics Ian

So I emailed em to you


I recon the ED33 bellhousing should become a wall ornament ....... dont throw it out tho ..... I have a sneaky suspicion that the L28 box could work with it when attatching an L28 box to an ed33, front shaft lengths and bellhousing depth tends to lead me this way.

The solution I belive is to drop ya existing 4 speed and then utilise the SD33's bellhousing instead of the ED33's. This way everything bolts staright back up ( starter etc etc )

As for the front shaft I cant see that there will be any major issues and we wont know that untill you post up the input shaft length on the NZ unit. At the worst ...it may be too long to suit the deeper bellhousing but spline count etc should all be sweet. May be a simple job of triming the length back with a 4"grinder.......

If the input shaft is shorter ( and this is HIGHLY UNLIKELY ) then is simply time to hit the lathe and make up a spigot bush thats longer to pick up the front shaft.

I'm betting that all you'll have to do is a bellhousing swap and MAYBE ....... an input shaft length trim

Kingy

[RMP&O]

Thanks so much Kingy! You are saving me a lot of guessing and also pulling the 4spd to varify.

I just measured the shaft, this is what I got.

Shaft lenght on my NZ 5spd: 193.675mm to 196.85mm, was hard to get perfect measurement with a yard stick and with the bellhousing attached Also I used the 25.40 mm to 1 inch conversion

Spline count on the NZ 5spd: 24 spline

Diameter at spigot end of shaft: 15.84mm

Length of spigot end of shaft (the smallest diameter part on tip of shaft): 32.94mm

In your email you say the SD33 shaft is 190mm on an SD33 5spd and 200mm on the L28 5spd. So I think I am right on the money and it is looking like I need to trim off 1/8" to 1/4" from the shaft length to match the normal SD33 5spd. This is all good news to me.

Only things left I am unsure of are....can I use the clutch that is in there now? Do you think I will need to notch the crossmember for front driveline?

[V8Patrol]

mmmmmmmm

Pull the 4spd out and the motor too
mate em up together on the floor and then trim the front shaft if required ( I doubt that any trimming will be needed tho )
I'd be 99.9% sure it will bolt straight up using the SD33 bellhousing instead of the ED one supplied from NZ.

While the motor n box are out ...... remove the cross member and relocate it back ( move the front edge of the cross member back to where the rear edge was ) You'll need to lengthen the cross member too by 2 n 1/4 inches ( 53mm )

The clutch pack from the SD33 should work a treat but fit a new one so theres no repeat works needed later on


In all honesty the motor removal may seem like a "pain in the butt" of an idea, but it will make it a much easier and quicker operation in the longrun.
Non removal of the motor WILL cost you heaps of time/swearing/poor quailty welding because of restricted room specially around the cross member area/will mean pulling the box back out if it doesnt quite fit and the shaft needs a trim etc etc etc ...... you'll be hours in front and lots less agrivated by spending an hour and dropping the motor out too.

Have a look @ my "members thread", it has the step by step details on how to do the cross member correctly. I wouldnt "notch" it as it weakens the thing considerably. Pics in the thread were working but may not be now due to OL being upn down so much in recent times..... shoot me an email if they arent workin and I'll send em over with the tech aswell.

Kingy

[RMP&O]

Kingy you are the man....might you be coming to the USA soon!? It sure would be sweet to throw down a few thousand bucks, have a pro around and tear into my MQ.

I actually spent a good number of hours last night reading up on your v8 Patrol. I had read most of it before but it was near a year ago. I would really like to SoA my MQ but am just not feeling confident I have the skills. Mostly I am worried my welds are shit and could result in major drama. The SD33 in my MQ actually needs to come out. I have some issues with the diesel and plan to have the bottem end rebuilt using TD pistons/rings. I know I know not everyone thinks it is required but I am one of those guys who believes in sparing no expense to do something right the first time. To drop a turbo on my motor I want to fit new pistons and I want to use Nissan parts. Yet, as much work as possible on the MQ has to be done by myself. I just am never happy with many other peoples work...plus I don't have the $$$ to take the truck to a shop and say "do it up, money is no option" and then deal with a $10k bill. The clutch actually needs to be replaced along with the slave/mc. So that was why I was asking....

Anyways, at least now I feel good about the 5spd and it fitting in my truck. I was kinda unsure before and had just been keeping my fingers crossed.