New TJM Pro Locker...

[Vogue]

if they are the JMac then TJM should be selling a model for Landrovers since that is what JMac specialise in.

[Guy]

if they are the JMac then TJM should be selling a model for Landrovers since that is what JMac specialise in.

If he sold them the rights to that model they may..

[RoldIT]

My recent info (and this is only word of mouth) that they are manfactured for TJM by JacMac but TJM do not own the licenses, they are just rebadged.

My guess would be TJM will not sell one for Land Rover as JacMac probably wants to keep that business for himself.

[Tezza]

I hearn a vague roumor about some 10 year contract that someone (JacMac?) had with ARB - which has now come to an end. And this is the reason why we are seing something come onto the market by another big label.

Does anyone know anything about this?

[Tezza]

This thread is quite old now. Does anyone know anyone who actually has one of these TJM lockers?

I saw an ad for them in the December 2005 4WD monthly magazine which refered me to the website to get more info. Yet the website has no trace of the product.

Whs got more info on these buggers?

I want to buy a pair of air lockers for my 60 and I want to make an informed choice (between ARB and TJM).

[cj]

Try getting hold of Matt at Total Traction Drivelines (03) 9555 1501 http://ttdrivelines.com.au/ He's had a bit to do with these and maybe he can tell you where they're at.

[evil_hitman]

I have the Jac Mac air locker in my cruiser, I have since looked at the TJM locker and it is identical in every way shape and form. One of the TJM guys have also confirmed it is a Jac Mac rebadged.

As far as the Jac Mac goes i find it great, and no O-Ring to wear out, plus in general a beefier unit than the ARB.
Mind you i still use an ARB compressor to run it (one of those new locker only ones)

Matt

[muddyperils]

The TJM / Jac Mac units will be good units but are still having supply problems with the parts, none for the patrol till probably late next year, so I cannot wait that long... ARB is going my way....

[DaveS3]

You will find that a lot of the Rover guys that have rover brand specific lockers ie JacMac and Maxi Drive will confirm that these are generally for better than an ARB air locker.

As said previously, no O ring and beefier.

[bru21]

The TJM / Jac Mac units will be good units but are still having supply problems with the parts, none for the patrol till probably late next year, so I cannot wait that long... ARB is going my way....

i was told late jan for gu's by tjm

[muddyperils]

i was told late jan for gu's by tjm

I have asked three different places and got different answers so I am not holding my breath with this product....

If the ARB item is hassle free for a few years, i'll keep it and replace the O ring, if not the TJM pro "might be out for the nissans by then......

[DamTriton]

i was told late jan for gu's by tjm

I have asked three different places and got different answers so I am not holding my breath with this product....

If the ARB item is hassle free for a few years, i'll keep it and replace the O ring, if not the TJM pro "might be out for the nissans by then......

I was told ~March at the recent 4WD/fishing show in Melbourne, by someone that seemed to be in the know (asked during the "setup" time before the show opened)

[grazza]

Would like to know why it takes so long to make/engineer/test them, with modern manufacturing and CNC machines they should be able to pump these out quickly - outsource it all.

Just see how fast other industries manage to bring new product onto the market.

Still I imagine TJM dont have the USA market like ARB.
No Patrols over there....

[YankeeDave]

sounds like rapid prototyping is new to TJM, They got excited over a new product and flogged the adds to develop an interest before it comes out.

non the less, stick with ARB who have a great current product. When Pro locker comes out for your car then have a look at it

[Cossie]

sounds like rapid prototyping is new to TJM, They got excited over a new product and flogged the adds to develop an interest before it comes out.

Did anyone actually believe the adds that TJM published in the mags comparing the pro locker to other brands of locker?

[AJ]

They got excited over a new product and flogged the adds to develop an interest before it comes out.

it worked so well with their adjustable shocks they thought they'd do it again

[Tezza]

Thanks for the advice guys. My wallet is in no hurry so I don't mind waiting for next year if they have supply issues for the 60 series. Particularly if it is the same money for a better unit. I've checked out the JacMac locker via email corresponance a long time ago and he reckoned there was nothing for the 60. Having said that, it's not like his design is new and untested. I think I'll be patient and go the JacMac locker.

I guess the other thing I'll have to research is air compressors. Can you get them with (small) tanks/regulators so you can run air tools off them? What impact would this have (if at all) on the locker operation?

Might be handy for odd bush repairs on a long trip (not like I want to open a mobile workshop). Bear in mind, I have never used air tools before so don't really know the requirements. Only reason why I'm asking is that it seems like a good opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. It's just an idea. I'm sure you'll let me know if it is a bad idea.

[Tezza]

You'd think ARB have fully sorted the production run efficiencies for producing their air locker. Why don't they translate their experience and associated efficiency into a noticeable price reduction. It's long overdue and would be sure to make the 6 o clock news.

"And lo, a great light broke forth from the heavens followed by the sound of trumpets and the angels singing 'glory halleluja, air lockers for all'. And the people wept for joy".

It would give people like me something to think about. Right now, I'm like "same price?: I'll go the 'new improved' JacMac option thanks".

Until ARB drop the price on this cash cow, I hope the TJM JacMac really hurts them. TJM should go hurt them in the USA too until they relent and drop their price.

I'm not holding my breath on any price wars though.

[evil_hitman]

Thanks for the advice guys. My wallet is in no hurry so I don't mind waiting for next year if they have supply issues for the 60 series. Particularly if it is the same money for a better unit.

60 series uses the same diff as the HJ75 (well at least the earlier ones like mine) so the jac mac is available to suit your truck and therefore the pro-locker should fit to.

Matt

[spazbot]

You'd think ARB have fully sorted the production run efficiencies for producing their air locker. Why don't they translate their experience and associated efficiency into a noticeable price reduction. It's long overdue and would be sure to make the 6 o clock news.

"And lo, a great light broke forth from the heavens followed by the sound of trumpets and the angels singing 'glory halleluja, air lockers for all'. And the people wept for joy".

It would give people like me something to think about. Right now, I'm like "same price?: I'll go the 'new improved' JacMac option thanks".

Until ARB drop the price on this cash cow, I hope the TJM JacMac really hurts them. TJM should go hurt them in the USA too until they relent and drop their price.

I'm not holding my breath on any price wars though.

and once they drop their prices on their airlockers where does the $$ come from to design new and make improvements to their products ??

If u consider the costs of manufacturing something like a airlocker the prices are pretty good. By the time u add up cost of materials, machining, assembly, and then add some extra for r&d, tooling, machinery to make the things. shit starts to add up fast

[Tezza]

and once they drop their prices on their airlockers where does the $$ come from to design new and make improvements to their products ??

You could also say that about any other monopoly business. It's a convenient argument to protect any manopoly rates of charge. If Hoyts charges less for movies, will there be less new movies to watch?
Or will more people start attending again, with increased volume to make up the shortfall. They charge what the market will bear even though a lot more people are cut out of the experience. In the end, they can't be making THAT much more than if they went for cheaper-rates/higher-volume.

If u consider the costs of manufacturing something like a airlocker the prices are pretty good. By the time u add up cost of materials, machining, assembly, and then add some extra for r&d, tooling, machinery to make the things. shit starts to add up fast

Sure, if you want to think about developing the thing from scratch, these costs would look fairly daunting. Agreed...

HOWEVER, How long have they had to recover their initial costs to develop (or buy the rights to) this product. How long have they had a virtual manopoly on such a product and hasn't the price been aligned to this manopoly.

The shear time period alone should be ample for them to improve their efficiency in manufacture and distribution of the product. It is these efficiencies that are the source of price cutting - not a lesser product.

You can't sell me the story that their profits have been minimal and marginal all the while the price has remained as it is. It's much more likely that the price is based on what the market will bear.

I know this subject is just speculation on other people's business, but it's an aweful bloody long time to sustain that price.

[GRIMACE]

ill be getting me a TJM for the front of my junk

[-Scott-]

Sure, if you want to think about developing the thing from scratch, these costs would look fairly daunting. Agreed...

HOWEVER, How long have they had to recover their initial costs to develop (or buy the rights to) this product. How long have they had a virtual manopoly on such a product and hasn't the price been aligned to this manopoly.

The shear time period alone should be ample for them to improve their efficiency in manufacture and distribution of the product. It is these efficiencies that are the source of price cutting - not a lesser product.

You can't sell me the story that their profits have been minimal and marginal all the while the price has remained as it is. It's much more likely that the price is based on what the market will bear.

I know this subject is just speculation on other people's business, but it's an aweful bloody long time to sustain that price.

Having followed the saga of getting a new locker developed for a new application (front locker for Pajero ) the amount of work involved in getting the product right is more involved than I would have expected. Suitably sized side gears to fit the diff housing, cutting splines to suit the axles, researching all the variants from the manufacturer within a particular model range to find out what the product will and won't fit - it all takes a phenomenal amount of time, and the volumes to amortise the development across are not large. Then the production volumes for gears and splines etc are not huge either.

Some of the volume Toyota and Nissan lockers may sell in sufficient volumes that the price might have room to move (what are TJM starting with?) but chances are any profit ARB is making on their volume products is helping to pay for the lower volume products - when are TJM producing a locker for a Prado or Pajero or Jackaroo?

ARB may have been the largest player in the market for a long time, but if there's so much money to be made why is somebody only starting just now? Why hasn't some American company jumped in and swamped the US market with a better/cheaper product?

Maybe the money isn't really there?

Scott

[Tezza]

Sounds like you have a point.

Based on some rumors, I heard that there was some patent issues. And an exclusive 10 year contract that has been preventing the original designer of the locker from hooking up with another distributer. About 4 months ago I heard this, but as far as I know, it's all hear/say, so don't quote me.

Having read bits and pieces on this forum, there seems to be evidence to contradict this rumor.

At the end of the day, unless you work as ARB's bean counter, we won't know what the margins are, or if there is any room to lower the price to increase the volumes.

I'm part of an all-terrain club which mostly consists of mums and dads who like to go camping. Don't think we have any comp players. Probably about 3% of the trucks there have ARB air-lockers, 1 has landie lockers, 1 has factory cable operated lockers, and about 80% of them wish they could afford lockers but can't.

[blkmav]

I'm part of an all-terrain club which mostly consists of mums and dads who like to go camping. Don't think we have any comp players. Probably about 3% of the trucks there have ARB air-lockers, 1 has landie lockers, 1 has factory cable operated lockers, and about 80% of them wish they could afford lockers but can't.

Don't waste all that money on an air locker that is used 1% of the time. Get an auto locker that's always in use at a fraction of the price of an ARB.

[F'n_Rover]

dont forget costs of patents ect :

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5947859.html

pretty sure this is jac macs ?

i did a patent search for locking differentials, fark there is a lot

[Rosey55]

I agree with the BlkmAV, get a set of Auto Lockers, front and rear $500ea and install yourself, so easy and cheap...

Makes a incredible difference to your truck with minimal cost... wish I'd done it years ago

[GRIMACE]

I agree with the BlkmAV, get a set of Auto Lockers, front and rear $500ea and install yourself, so easy and cheap...

Makes a incredible difference to your truck with minimal cost... wish I'd done it years ago

auto lockers are fine if you dont like to be in controll of your traction aids. I personally drive around everywhere unlocked, and will only use the locker/s when really needed.

[Tezza]

auto lockers are fine if you dont like to be in controll of your traction aids. I personally drive around everywhere unlocked, and will only use the locker/s when really needed.

I appreciate the advice with regards to cost, but I'm with anthony. Without getting into auto/manual lockers debate, I need the thing to be predictable around corners - especially in the wet on the road. Basically because the mrs will occasionally drive it. It's bad enough MTR tryes don't perform well on slippery bitument, but it's also a diesel with manual gears. Put all these things together with my mrs behind the wheel, and the last thing we need is for the differential to start binding around some wet slippery corner.

Yup, maybe it is 1% of the time, but that's the ONLY time I want it engaged.

[blkmav]

I agree with the BlkmAV, get a set of Auto Lockers, front and rear $500ea and install yourself, so easy and cheap...

Makes a incredible difference to your truck with minimal cost... wish I'd done it years ago

auto lockers are fine if you dont like to be in controll of your traction aids. I personally drive around everywhere unlocked, and will only use the locker/s when really needed.

Yawn - more FUD, you obviously haven't driven with one