TURBO VS BLOWER

[DILLIGAF]

supercharger kit sonds like a plan...
Big Kev! I'm excited!

[small talk]

What would the ball park be on these kits?? and would this work with a carbied 1.3 or would this be a waste of time as some suggested with out injection??

thanks small talk.

[97zook]

Yes a 4wd situation is the only place a supercharger is better than a turbo. On the road or a race track the Turbo is miles ahead.

thats bullshit.... both do exactly the same thing, in 2 different ways, and produce the same desired power when done right.
chargers just cost way too much money compared to turbo, but in saying that, a charger will last longer too

[Santos]

Would you care to explain to me 97zook how i will achieve max boost with a turbo at less than 2000 revs for when i'm doing slow crawling and still have tht same boost levl at 4500rpms when i'm highway driving?


Ease up on the lingo

[Gutless]

people always seem to forget that most forced induction systems are built for a specific purpose.

For example....

Someone who wants to make massive power and run sub 10 second quarter mile passes will need a very large turbo, capable of massive boost and that inevatably comes on boost over 4000 rpm. This turbo will have NOTHING under this engine rpm so stall it up and lanch it and just hang on...

On the other hand, this setup would be crap for rock crawling. the desired setup would be a much smaller turbo, that comes on boost much lower in the rev range. This turbo will give much needed low down torque, but will unfortunately run off its efficiency chart over 4-5000rpm.

superchargers can be used for the same applications, but have a different set of perameters again.

You really need to talk to an expert who can get all the info about what you intend to do with the vehicle and put that into a real life system that will suit your application.

JMO

Pete

[Santos]

The long and non smart-arse version of what i just said

[Gutless]

The long and non smart-arse version of what i just said

some people respond better when your not a smart ass!! It was increadibly hard for me not to jump on the wagon with yourself tho

[ofr57]

this would be real good .. gives you abit more mumbo to get up the rocks then when your on the road you could acturly leave it in 5th going up that hill on the hiway

but the thing what i was wondering ... with the extra pressure wouldn't you need high pressure gear eg. values and stuff or would the zook be able to take it

OH yeah ... i forgot to say ... I'm for the blower

[largesuzy]

this would be real good .. gives you abit more mumbo to get up the rocks then when your on the road you could acturly leave it in 5th going up that hill on the hiway

but the thing what i was wondering ... with the extra pressure wouldn't you need high pressure gear eg. values and stuff or would the zook be able to take it

If u use a supercharger from a 4agze you can run it on a switch, so that when u want that bit more power u can switch it on but turn it off around town.

[Zookified]

I don't know if anyone would be sensible enought to turn their turbo off I suppose you would learn pretty quick once you starting breaking shit.

[Gutless]

You just have to remember that if you are running a turbo setup on a standard motor you will very quickly find the limits of the internals. Most engines will survive for a while with 7psi or less with standard NA internals.

[Santos]

You got to love that figure, 7psi. Almost every post in regards to this all agree on this and hover around the 6-8psi figure.

I know some have actually implented this but when most ppl say it it's been recycled info (not attacking anyone here )

If you drop the intake air temparature you change the PSi, so you could be getting more cubes from less pressure. Cubes is what forced induction is doing for power.

So some ppl might get 7psi at a certain temparature and get reliability then other people (perharps in colder climates) set there bypass/blow off valve to 7psi and there engines have a short life.. All because they flowed more cc's when into the same chamber.

You might say well it's the same pressure going in so whats the difference. Well when the valve shuts and piston pushes up.

Imagine a 1324cc G13a. divide by 4 cylinders you get 331cc a cylinder.
With compression Ratio of 8.9 :1 Your 331cc gets squeezed down to 38cc.

That 38cc doesn't change. That's the point you got more fuel and air being reduced to the same size (the eqivalent of higher vcompression)

So at a lower temperature with the same psi (let's say 50cc between temp A and B) more air is going into the chamber and compressing down to the same 38cc you have a lot more strain on the engine trying to compress the gasses and when the bang comes more stresses on the drivetrain trying to channel the power.


I think the solution is in controlling how much cc's a flowing into each stroke and THEN controlling the PSI by reducing temparature, maximising flow in the intake etc etc.

I'd be interested in seeing someone do a 2psi Set up. Sound silly but think about the fuel economy and responsiveness of something with 100% volumentric efficiency 100% of the time Negate all those losses from the mass cast heads, smaller valves and consevitive cam.

With a positive displacement supercharger you could do ths by working out the ratio in the pulleys in relation to the engine cycle maybe adding a little to account for loses and tuning from there... turbos wouldn't be ruled out but to me it's a lot of homework to get it flowing and tuned to match a blower. a Lot of expertise most of us simply don't have... so why argue that everyone should choose it over the other?

Oddly enough. I am turbo devout. But give me an engine family that doesn't come in turbo and i chase the simplicity and cost vs benifits

[Gutless]

All true in one way or another, but speaking for myself only, I can say that the figure I suggested; 7psi, as a rough guide only. I am aware that with decrease in temperature, densities etc will change.

i used to get boost fluctuations in my twin turbo 300ZX in colder climates.

the fact of the matter is that when someone suggest you keep to a low boost application ( 6-8psi) the intended purpose of that comment is to keep people from running 1 bar+ of boost through their completely standard; once naturally aspirated engine.

And I am not trying to be picky.....I do see your point...but manufacturers of turbo charged and supercharged engines run between 5 and 10 psi from the factory BECAUSE the R&D costs vs the actual output must add up on paper.

there is no piont in running an expensive design process, and adding thousands of $$ cost in parts to an engine just for a small gain through a 2psi etc forced system, when a simple cam change, or VVT would net more gains.

Sorry If I have gone off on a tangent here.

[ofr57]

If u use a supercharger from a 4agze you can run it on a switch, so that when u want that bit more power u can switch it on but turn it off around town.

if i wanted something that turns off that gives me power i would get NOS .... but that would turn my road car/ weekend warrior to a trailer queen