A warning

[planb]

i totally agree with dustin

from a media point of view, you need to be united under one banner to get the most milage out of your campaign.

vehicle spec variations aside, is it one movement or several ?

im going to ask the question,

why did mark start ozrock and not just simply a vic chapter of we rock ?

[Strange Rover]

I guess before I say any more, I should ask this question...how is CCDA and OzRock working with WE Rock?

I have been in regular contact with the CCDA since the start of this year (end of last year maybe?) speaking to them about incorporating unregistered rockcrawling vehicles and rockcrawling competitions into their structure. We did this working towards our finals at Milbrodale because the landowner had events there before insured through the CCDA.

The way I thought the structure of all this would work was this:

WE Rock Australia uses the international WE Rock rules.

Oz Rock uses their slightly different version of the WE Rock rules that are taylored to their specific region (ie - their modified rules are less restrictive to allow the rigs like Cheezy's to comply to this class)

The CCDA sanctions both these events and provides vehicle specifications and safety requirements that both Oz Rock and WE Rock comply to. This works because the CCDA vehicle specs just have to be less restrictive that either Oz Rock or WE Rock so that both vehicle specs work. At the moment the WE Rock rules are more restrictive than the Oz Rock and a WE Rock spec vehicle complys to Oz Rock but not the other way round.

Now this setup will work in that both WE Rock and Oz Rock can be insured through the CCDA or anybody else for that matter.

I can see that Dustins numbered outline would work very, very well in terms of growing this sport quickly. His model needs a proactive and motivated sanctioning body to direct the whole sport to make it grow.

Im just not sure that new promoters (Oz Rock included) would see that by following an international standard is the best way to grow their own series. I think that new promoters probably think that if they do things a little bit different to make things a little bit better then their series will be the best series in Australia. If Oz Rock ran WE Rock rules and regulations then they will be just following WE Rocks lead and will there fore never be in front.

I think the only way that this sport will become unified in terms of rules and regulations is for one series to totally dominate the sport. I believe that this is true for the US as well. And I have no doubts that once the first true World Rockcrawling Championships happens under a WE Rock banner then WE Rock will be the only sanctioning body worth following.

Sam

[sierrajim]

So after reading this thread i'm thinking that you guys are trying to suggest that because Werock was here first that everyone else should follow?

WE Rock wasnt here first. XRCC was here first and then Q Rock followed.

WE Rock has just progressed quicker because of the US involvement.

Sam

Are XRCC and Q Rock still running?

I'm not against there being one sanctioning body at all however i was of the understanding that CCDA was the sanctioning body.

[*BESTY*]

From reading the replies on these pages, it is clear that this is all about politics.

For everybody's peace of mind, someone should set up an INTERNATIONAL SANCTIONING BODY for all Rockcrawling Events and/or Motor Sports.


BUT





Formula 1 can't do it with the Indy Cars !!








Why can't we have US based + Aussie based differences in the Events.

The game of GOLF..........played worldwide.........has one basic set of general (worldwide) rules and then local rules depending on where you are playing.

[Strange Rover]

Are XRCC and Q Rock still running?

I'm not against there being one sanctioning body at all however i was of the understanding that CCDA was the sanctioning body.

Last I heard was yes - but that doesent mean that we should be following their rules.

I think the CCDA will be a sanctioning body of sorts but nothing like what Dustin is describing. I dont think that the CCDA will really control and direct the way the sport grows but will just oversee the basic safety rules and provide insurance.

Although they may want to take on a more proactive roll in the direction of the sport and control it so that it grows together.

Sam

[83 lux]

XRCC is still running got an email about it last week for dave and q-rock is over due its members having other comittments.

Scotty

[bad_religion_au]

Why can't we have US based + Aussie based differences in the Events.

The game of GOLF..........played worldwide.........has one basic set of general (worldwide) rules and then local rules depending on where you are playing.

the biggest reason, i believe is that for example, you run cheezy's buggy on 37's in the "legends" class out here, wipe the field with it, go over to the US and compete in the finals... they put you in the unlimited (whatever it's called) class, and all of a sudden your competing against 40 inch tired, rear steered moon buggies, because your frame, while adhering to aussie specs for the legends class, does not adhere to the werock international specs. (due to the frame having to end in line with the outermost point of the tires.)

to use your golf analogy, it'd be like if you won the aussie championship with a full bag of clubs, then went to the US and were forced to play with a maximum of 4 clubs... because you've tailored your game to suit the resources (types of clubs) you won't be compeditive under the "international" rulings

but that's not all this thread is about. it's also about the competition between series (i.e. ozrock, werock, prorock, cawkrock and whoever else wants to start a series), competing for sponsorship (not much sponsorship for crawling over here yet so their squabbling over scraps). also vying for coverage, both 4x4 related and general media. e.g. if channel 10 signs up to broadcast ozrock only, there would have been 1 show this year. now if they signed up to the sanctioning body, saying we want broadcasting rights for crawling in australia, they would have their pick of werock, ozrock, and any other series being run under that body. means more footage, more coverage, means easier to sell to the sponsors.

[MissDrew]

Why can`t CCDA set the rules, vech class specs and scoring system etc. All this could be done as the unregoed section of the CCDA.


BTW my buggy will be built to suit werock pro modified class but will compete in both ozrock and werock. I allready have most of the driveline and a frame

[POS]

Why can`t CCDA set the rules, vech class specs and scoring system etc. All this could be done as the unregoed section of the CCDA.:

As long as they are IDENTICAL (meaning no little changes at all) as WEROCK USA, then that would be fine with me. If they are not the same and our rigs won't be equal to the USA rigs then that will just fark it al together.

If our events are not run the same as the USA it does two things, it will stop us from competing over there and it would create little interest for ant USA team to come over here.

OZROCK, WEROCK, XRCC or LOGAN NIGHT RUNS i don't care who it is as long as there rulz allow us to compete against the best in the world.

For Rockcrawling to grow in Australia we must be inline with the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alexcliffo]

IMO the sport is all about spectator interest. In these sensitive beginningn stages, two (or more) isolated events will only confuse and disinterest some spectators. They would want to follow the progress of vehicles against each other and through the year in the one competition body.

Just remember superleague vs NRL - it didnt mean as much if the Knights won NRL as they didnt even play half the best Aussie league teams (ie those in superleague.

[POS]

IMO the sport is all about spectator interest. In these sensitive beginningn stages, two (or more) isolated events will only confuse and disinterest some spectators. They would want to follow the progress of vehicles against each other and through the year in the one competition body.

Just remember superleague vs NRL - it didnt mean as much if the Knights won NRL as they didnt even play half the best Aussie league teams (ie those in superleague.

Yeah, but the Broncos WON!!!!!!

[ljxtreem]

This is all bullshit, and Sam, pehaps you should read the rules, cheezys buggy would be in open in both Ozrock and WErock

We started OZrock, so that we could have fun, Not get into all this political bullshit, leave it, and worry about your own events, no one bags out your shit.

Mock

[Tiny]

People leave a club or comp etc due to poloticts, start a new club or comp and all it does is start a whole new dimension of polotics. The fact is that polotics are everywhere and you cant escape it.

The point I seem to get from Dustins posts are that while he does and wil continue to do what he can to grow thge sport, the number of comps sanctioned by different bodies aside from confusing the bloke who just wants to drive the event confuses the media, the spectator and mopst importantly the prospective sponsor. surely all of us can understand the importance of sponors!!!! they are the ones who give us marketing points, money to promote, build courses etc etc. to many different sanctioning bodies with different rules confuses people and in the end diluted the cash coming in and slows the growth of the sport.

A non profit sanctioning body with members from all stakeholders be it WERock, OZRock XRCC etc would allow this IMO

uniformity within the sport from several different comps will do a lot to grow the sport. and remember there is always polatics, dont try and run from that, rather try and learn how to approach issues that may arise to find a suitable outcome for everyone involved

[Strange Rover]

This is all bullshit, and Sam, pehaps you should read the rules, cheezys buggy would be in open in both Ozrock and WErock

We started OZrock, so that we could have fun, Not get into all this political bullshit, leave it, and worry about your own events, no one bags out your shit.

Mock

Mock - settle down.

If you read my last post about how I see things working (my last big post on this page) you will see that im AGREEING with YOU and that I carnt see an overall sanctioning body forcing promoters to run ruls a certain way.

Just quote some bits from my post-

"The CCDA sanctions both these events and provides vehicle specifications and safety requirements that both Oz Rock and WE Rock comply to. This works because the CCDA vehicle specs just have to be less restrictive that either Oz Rock or WE Rock so that both vehicle specs work"

"Im just not sure that new promoters (Oz Rock included) would see that by following an international standard is the best way to grow their own series"

"I think the only way that this sport will become unified in terms of rules and regulations is for one series to totally dominate the sport"

Maybe I should have just said -

Mock - run your rules how every you want cause this is the only way its going to work. You guys dont want somebody else to tell you how to run your sport.

Understand what Im saying now????

Sam

[MissDrew]

Why can`t CCDA set the rules, vech class specs and scoring system etc. All this could be done as the unregoed section of the CCDA.:

As long as they are IDENTICAL (meaning no little changes at all) as WEROCK USA, then that would be fine with me. If they are not the same and our rigs won't be equal to the USA rigs then that will just fark it al together.

If our events are not run the same as the USA it does two things, it will stop us from competing over there and it would create little interest for ant USA team to come over here.

OZROCK, WEROCK, XRCC or LOGAN NIGHT RUNS i don't care who it is as long as there rulz allow us to compete against the best in the world.

For Rockcrawling to grow in Australia we must be inline with the USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never said it shoudn`t be the same and I agree that there should be world wide rules specs etc.

CCDA is all ready setup and they set the rules for the winch challenges, each event then adds their little bits. Both werock and ozrock can add there bits but can`t change what CCDA sets as a min requiement (spelling?). So basicly each event can add say window nets but they can`t go saying hyrdo is allowed (if CCDA say it isn`t)

[frp88]

sam do you think that at all of our future werock events there will be enough us teams coming over here for us to care if we are inline with a couple of teams

[POS]

sam do you think that at all of our future werock events there will be enough us teams coming over here for us to care if we are inline with a couple of teams

Yes, this years finals there was 5 teams!

However the overall plan for WEROCK is to hold a TRUE INTERNATIONAL (hence not just americans) "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP".

In November 2006 upto 4 (maybe more) of Australia's best teams will get to go over to the USA to compete. In Novemeber 2007 the americans will be coming to Australia to comepete in the "2nd World championship". And hopefully so on and so on!

So thats why its fairly important to run the same rules as them. And why not, their rules have been tried and tested over many years. Why try and re-invent the wheel!

[jav]

if you want to run a world event, you need world rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-Richo-]

if you want to run a world event, you need world rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For anything to be successful that involves a group of people, they all need to be following the same path. Unfortunately the politics always seems to get in the way of progress.

[Micka]

if you want to run a world event, you need world rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least this way the US will have a WORLD SERIES that involves another country

But seriously...this is the only point that needs to be considered.

What would be the benefit/point of competing on a world stage if we are following rules that are not of world standard?

Micka

[jeep97tj]

Why try and re-invent the wheel!

spot on, sounds like a few people dont like the the idea because the americans made the rules?, they want there own Australian rules?, dont want to follow the americans?, want to stand up on the own 2 feet and do it them selves? Want to go down in history for starting australian rock comps?

I dont know and dont really care
All they are really doing is "cutting of there noses to spite there face"

The yanks have done all the hard work for us, now all we have to do is jump on.

If u start to have to many diffrent comps that have nothing to do with each other (points wise), u will end up forcing people to choose 1 comp to run with (due to the $$). I think the smaller comps will start of OK but as people start to become better, more serious and get sponsors they will naturaly head over to the larger comps eg WeRock because its world rules and will always be seen as the ultimate comp to be in. Sponsors will also relise this and sway that same way.
But it looks like its gona happen the hard way, Go that aussie pride....or is that aussie stubborness......stupidity.....anyone??

[MissDrew]

However the overall plan for WEROCK is to hold a TRUE INTERNATIONAL (hence not just americans) "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP".

In November 2006 upto 4 (maybe more) of Australia's best teams will get to go over to the USA to compete. In Novemeber 2007 the americans will be coming to Australia to comepete in the "2nd World championship". And hopefully so on and so on!

So thats why its fairly important to run the same rules as them. And why not, their rules have been tried and tested over many years. Why try and re-invent the wheel!

I don`t so much as agree with just using the yanks rules and specs just because they are tried and trued. To be 100% honest I`d prefer to do our own thing as fair as that is concernd. BUT as fair as running a TRUE world Championship goes I agree 150% with this (for this YES we HAVE to run the SAME rules down to dotting every i and crossing every t). Not only does it help get the Aussie rock crawling bigger quicker but it helps rockcrawling WORLD WIDE and that is what I see as looking at the bigger picture.

Golf, Basket ball, Cricket, Soccer, Tennis none of these would be any where near as big as they are now if they didn`t have international rules. I think its very easy to see the bigger picture of what needs to be done with rock crawling WORLD wide, not just in Aus or the USA.

[45punkbus]

sounds like a few people dont like the the idea because the americans made the rules?, they want there own Australian rules?, dont want to follow the americans?, want to stand up on the own 2 feet and do it them selves? Want to go down in history for starting australian rock comps?

the oz rock crew only started so that there were comps ran in vic, they had these rules to allow as many teams as possible enter so the comp has enough compeditors running as possible. although with my limited knowledge of the finer detail'd rules all rigs would have been able to run in one class or another at we rock comps anyway (please correct me if im wrong as its just my knowledge which is not much). having been too 2 we rocks and one oz rock the only real difference i could see was that at oz rock they were trying to be alot more safe not only for spectators but for the drivers and navi's them selves.

how ever i was there as a spectator and just enjoyed all 3 events so i may have missed the diffrences.

[sierrajim]

how ever i was there as a spectator and just enjoyed all 3 events so i may have missed the diffrences.

This is what people are missing, we all do this for fun. Just enjoy it, drive it and don't over analyze.

[Strange Rover]

. having been too 2 we rocks and one oz rock the only real difference i could see was that at oz rock they were trying to be alot more safe not only for spectators but for the drivers and navi's them selves.

And what makes OZ Rock so safe??

If you carnt tell the difference between the two sets of rules then maybe you should try to actually read the rules.

Or maybe this entire thread has been a waste of time cause the rules are actually the same.

Maybe I should go read the rules just the make sure

Sam

[*BESTY*]

So...............let's sum up everything discussed

All Rockcrawling events are SANCTIONED by the CCDA to ensure Insurance requirements.


VEHICLE SPECIFICATIONS, SAFETY and RULES are the same for each event.



BTW, who informed the CCDA for these requirements as there was previously nothing documented for Rockcrawling in Australia and where did they get them from Has anybody actually compared them with anything



I feel this post is turning into an us against them political discussion on a public forum which will only do damage to the sport of Rockcrawling in Australia.

STOP THE BITCHING

[Strange Rover]

So...............let's sum up everything discussed

All Rockcrawling events are SANCTIONED by the CCDA to ensure Insurance requirements.


VEHICLE SPECIFICATIONS, SAFETY and RULES are the same for each event.

Are you saying this is how it should be or this is how it actually is??

Sam

[*BESTY*]

This is how it currently is............



Because the reason to use them is.................INSURANCE.


Do you know other places that would do Insurance for events of this type as I would be interested to know.

[RUFF]

This is how it currently is............



Because the reason to use them is.................INSURANCE.


Do you know other places that would do Insurance for events of this type as I would be interested to know.

The Vehicle Specs and Rules are not the same between W.E.Rock and OZrock. As for Safety i cant comment because i have not attended an OZrock event.

[45punkbus]

And what makes OZ Rock so safe??

from what i noticed it was instances where there was chances of roll over's cheezy plus others in orange were making the croud move away from the area in which the car would be heading, i know we rock event staff would not have let anything happen to the spectators as well if it were forseable (sp?) its just at oz rock it seem'd more visable, and maybe it was just the course setup that made that the case.

also rob being told to stop smoking his tyres, i was told this was due to safety concerns as he may have gripped up and launched off bouncing into the croud (this was secound hand from another spectator who said they'd heard it from a official)

If you carnt tell the difference between the two sets of rules then maybe you should try to actually read the rules.

i understand a few of the rules, but when its my time to build a buggy (which hopefully wont be to far down the track) i will have a read of the rules more, i go to the events to support the sport, and enjoy the driving thats going on, i have travel'd melb to bathurst and melb to milbrodale for the 2 we rock events and the bathurst one i didn't even have the first clue what rock crawling was about but still travel'd to suport it and was not there to support anybody inparticular, and i will continue to travel to support the sport, i will support both oz rock and we rock when ever i can.