Another Toyo diff bites the dust...

[ISUZUROVER]

I have seen a few hiluxes break front diffs under surprisingly easy conditions. Including a completely stock and fairly new hilux on 31" AT's which broke a CW&P while trying to climb a small rock ledge. Admittedly he was going faster on each attempt and getting a bit of air under the front wheels.

[RUFF]

It is common for a hilux diff to break in the front driving up hills. No matter what size tyre. I have broken them on 30/9.5s.

It is not as common for a High Pinion cruiser diff to break going forward. It is very common in Reverse.

[ISUZUROVER]

It is common for a hilux diff to break in the front driving up hills. No matter what size tyre. I have broken them on 30/9.5s.

It is not as common for a High Pinion cruiser diff to break going forward. It is very common in Reverse.

So did all hiluxes come with low-pinion front diffs then??? Didn't realise that.

[RUFF]

Yes all hilux's were low pinion.

[Micka]

I have seen many hiluxs thrash the bejesus out of themselves and not break anything...which leads me to think that maybe RUFF is right - JOHNZ's diff may not have been set up properly.

The crown wheel does seem to be suspiciously weak though - there are many, many examples on here and 4WDMonthly forum of 100s and new utes busting front diffs.

How do the diffs differ to the ones in the 80 series? They don't seem break as easily. I know of many who run big rubber on them with no dramas. A mate has 39" Michelins on his and is yet to break a diff...despite a healthy right foot.

Micka.

[bad_religion_au]

I have seen many hiluxs thrash the bejesus out of themselves and not break anything...which leads me to think that maybe RUFF is right - JOHNZ's diff may not have been set up properly.

The crown wheel does seem to be suspiciously weak though - there are many, many examples on here and 4WDMonthly forum of 100s and new utes busting front diffs.

How do the diffs differ to the ones in the 80 series? They don't seem break as easily. I know of many who run big rubber on them with no dramas. A mate has 39" Michelins on his and is yet to break a diff...despite a healthy right foot.

Micka.

they're pretty much the same arent they? i know of a few 80's that grenade em as well... maybe your mates got lucky

and the extra ton or so over a hilux's weight might contribute too

[eighty8]

and the extra ton or so over a hilux's weight might contribute too

Have been told by my local diff shop that the 100 series front and the hilux rear are the same diff, the arb parts catalogue list's them as having the same locker No, an Rd23, so I tend to agree with the extra weight theory.

There's always talk of hilux front diffs being weak or breaking, but has anyone had a problem with the rear???...

Happy New Year...Wahhoooo, (I think)....

[Bush65]

and the extra ton or so over a hilux's weight might contribute too

Have been told by my local diff shop that the 100 series front and the hilux rear are the same diff, the arb parts catalogue list's them as having the same locker No, an Rd23, so I tend to agree with the extra weight theory.

There's always talk of hilux front diffs being weak or breaking, but has anyone had a problem with the rear???...

Happy New Year...Wahhoooo, (I think)....

100 series front is hi pinion, Hilux rear is low pinion - so no they are not the same. There may be some things in common, but not main components.

A front low pinion diff, drives on the weak side of the teeth when going forward. There is also a problem with the way the loads are carried by the pinion bearings and Toyota' s use of crush sleeves instead of solid spacers.

[beanz2]

Ive been making custom front housings for 78/79's, 80's and 100's for years now when the owners get sick of breaking front diffs centers.
The combination of Nissan front centre, Toyota CV's hubs brakes etc has proven to be a great combination as ive made 18 custom housings to date and never heard from a customer to have had further problems only good reports that they given the 4B heaps and its still goin. It is an expensive fix as you need a new locker , front centre and housing and with some models of cruiser with the 4.3:1 ratio diffs you need to do the rear centre as the Nissan ratios only match on the 4.1:1 ratio and Nissan's have a good range of factory ratio's to pick fro ie 3.7:1, 4.1:1, 4.375:1 & 4.65:1. The housings ive built are a staight forward replacement for the original and bolt straight in no further mods required.

Wally

Wally, why not use a 60/pre 1990 75 cruiser centre instead of a Nissan?

Dave

[80UTE]

The front diff needs to be a hipinion so it clears the track rod, about 6 years ago i build and 80 front diff using to cruiser low pinion centre i moved the track rod to the front but had clearance issues with the track rod, drag link and panard rod. the track rod had to be so low so it didn't interfere with the panard mount on the chassis then the angle between the drag link and panard was too much it bump steered real bad. Thats why i went on to develope the Nissan hipinion centre housing. The hipinion is also perfectly suited to the front also as it running in its strongest configuration. That low pinion housing was a big learning job for it to end up in the scrapmetal bin.

Wally

[ljxtreem]

and the extra ton or so over a hilux's weight might contribute too

Have been told by my local diff shop that the 100 series front and the hilux rear are the same diff, the arb parts catalogue list's them as having the same locker No, an Rd23, so I tend to agree with the extra weight theory.

There's always talk of hilux front diffs being weak or breaking, but has anyone had a problem with the rear???...

Happy New Year...Wahhoooo, (I think)....

100 series front is hi pinion, Hilux rear is low pinion - so no they are not the same. There may be some things in common, but not main components.

A front low pinion diff, drives on the weak side of the teeth when going forward. There is also a problem with the way the loads are carried by the pinion bearings and Toyota' s use of crush sleeves instead of solid spacers.

Diferent 3rd member, and diferent R&P configration high and low, dosnt mean its a diferent centre

I could be wrong


Mock

[Bitsamissin]

I got a Bundy high pinion centre (Hilux housing) running an ARB locker and 5.29 C&P (same manufacturer that makes Toyo gear sets, Asano I think) in the Jabber.
It was assembled using a solid spacer.
The Cruiser centres are virtually identical except for larger carrier bearings.
The only problem I have had is breaking the standard CV's now it has a set of Haultech's and I haven't had any drama's at all.
Although mine doesn't weigh as much as a 80 or 100 Series.
I am very mindfull about - snatching in reverse and using the locker going backwards up steep hills.
The set up on these diffs is also very important.

[beanz2]

The front diff needs to be a hipinion so it clears the track rod, about 6 years ago i build and 80 front diff using to cruiser low pinion centre i moved the track rod to the front but had clearance issues with the track rod, drag link and panard rod. the track rod had to be so low so it didn't interfere with the panard mount on the chassis then the angle between the drag link and panard was too much it bump steered real bad. Thats why i went on to develope the Nissan hipinion centre housing. The hipinion is also perfectly suited to the front also as it running in its strongest configuration. That low pinion housing was a big learning job for it to end up in the scrapmetal bin.

Wally

Aaaagghh! I would have bought that housing for use in a 75. Has your scrapmetal bin been emptied in 6 years? Yes, the high pinion issue makes sense in an 80 series, but why not keep the track rod behind the housing and make high mount steering arms to locate it above the diff?

Dave

[80UTE]

The front diff needs to be a hipinion so it clears the track rod, about 6 years ago i build and 80 front diff using to cruiser low pinion centre i moved the track rod to the front but had clearance issues with the track rod, drag link and panard rod. the track rod had to be so low so it didn't interfere with the panard mount on the chassis then the angle between the drag link and panard was too much it bump steered real bad. Thats why i went on to develope the Nissan hipinion centre housing. The hipinion is also perfectly suited to the front also as it running in its strongest configuration. That low pinion housing was a big learning job for it to end up in the scrapmetal bin.

Wally

Aaaagghh! I would have bought that housing for use in a 75. Has your scrapmetal bin been emptied in 6 years? Yes, the high pinion issue makes sense in an 80 series, but why not keep the track rod behind the housing and make high mount steering arms to locate it above the diff?

Dave

80"s only have 2 bolts on the top kingpin so to mount an arm to it is not desirable as the casting is the wrong shape. If you have a look at the hi-pinion diff centres the housing is made to clear the the track rod the cruiser low pinions a quite bulky so getting a rod over the top would be tight and also the rod would interfer with the shocks. Low pinions arnt the best as all the axial load of driveing the crown wheel is on the pinion flange nut and the smaller pinion bearing. With a hi-pinion in the front the axial load of driving the crown pushes the pinion gear into the housing and to the larger pinion bearing. Thats why hi-pinions are good for the front and low-pinion are good for the rear and not vis-ver-sa.

Wally

[Bush65]

The hi pinion Nissan centre conversion is a good option for the front of Toyota 80/100 series.

Wally built one for me and did an excellent job.

[6.5 rangie]

How much larger is the Nissan h/p over an 80series h/p?
I've just done a toy conversion for my rangie (not yet installed) as this was the better option for me, now i here that the 80series h/p is piss weak i am thinking about the nissan conversion before i lash and buy lockers. Now a couple of questions,
1. Are they the same spline as the toyotas, if so can i use my jacmac (30 spline) axles?
2. How much larger is the centre, will it fit in a rover housing, or will i need to use the nissan one with the rover axle tubes?

Thanks Damien

[Bush65]

How much larger is the Nissan h/p over an 80series h/p?
I've just done a toy conversion for my rangie (not yet installed) as this was the better option for me, now i here that the 80series h/p is piss weak i am thinking about the nissan conversion before i lash and buy lockers. Now a couple of questions,
1. Are they the same spline as the toyotas, if so can i use my jacmac (30 spline) axles?
2. How much larger is the centre, will it fit in a rover housing, or will i need to use the nissan one with the rover axle tubes?

Thanks Damien

Nissan crownwheel is about 30mm larger in dia. and they use a solid spacer between the pinion bearings (which Toyota should do).

Nissan axles have diiferent splines. The ARB side gears that Wally uses are 30 spline to enable the 100/80 series Toyota axles to be used.

[V6XtraHilux]

i busted a Hilux front diff somewere between 0 and 70,000kms. have no idea when. Only did one reverse up a small mound about 10-15Ks and heard something bang, but thought it was steering noise, then from then on havent really hit the massive 4wd tracks with any gusto!

Interstingly when Toyota serviced my truck up till about 40Ks they never found teh mashed teeth, the bolts attaching the bash plate were stripped (thanks Toyota Service??) and oil hasnt been changed since then. I found the teeth when I did the 70K service, and Toyota wouldnt even consider a warranty claim as I hadnt had the servicing done by qualified mechanics!!!

AND....I had a 50mm body lift too.....extremely modifed they called it. Stuff Toyota, im going a Nissan solid axle next time. Got a ARB front locker but havent had a chance to use it yet....i might go easy as I cant afford to be busting CW&P every trip!

Cheers

[Micka]

i busted a Hilux front diff somewere between 0 and 70,000kms. have no idea when. Only did one reverse up a small mound about 10-15Ks and heard something bang, but thought it was steering noise, then from then on havent really hit the massive 4wd tracks with any gusto!

Interstingly when Toyota serviced my truck up till about 40Ks they never found teh mashed teeth, the bolts attaching the bash plate were stripped (thanks Toyota Service??) and oil hasnt been changed since then. I found the teeth when I did the 70K service, and Toyota wouldnt even consider a warranty claim as I hadnt had the servicing done by qualified mechanics!!!

AND....I had a 50mm body lift too.....extremely modifed they called it. Stuff Toyota, im going a Nissan solid axle next time. Got a ARB front locker but havent had a chance to use it yet....i might go easy as I cant afford to be busting CW&P every trip!

Cheers

That is seriously bad.

How can they miss something like that? And strip the nuts on the bash plate...I would have been using the bash plates on their heads.

JOHNZ printed out this thread when he took the 100 in for the front end and handed it to the service manager. I think he was also sending a copy off to the GM of Toyota in Oz. According to their records, they do not have a problem with front diffs breaking .

When you think about it though...they really don't. How many 100s have been sold that never go off-road? How many 100s break diffs out of the warranty period? How many 100s have broken and the owners have paid for the repair thinking that Toyota would not cover it?

Then look at how many 100s have gone off-road, during the warranty period with no modifications done to suspension/tyres/turbos etc, broken a front diff and claimed on the warranty.

It would probably be as low as 5-10% of the total number of 100s sold in Oz. Or even lower.

So as far as Toyota is concerned...90-95% of their 100s are unbreakable. That's a pretty good average.

I don't care much for Toyotas, so it really does not concern me...but to see a 4WD bust a front diff in such a piss weak situation is really disturbing. Especially when the average person could not/would not know what to do after that. Or continue to drive the thing and not realise the potential hazard that they face.

And when you see the ad for the 100s on TV...

Will get you there...and get you back again! Yes...but only in 2WD

What I don't understand is...why did the 80 series not have such a prevalent problem and the 100 does?



Micka

[Ruffy]

Mate of mine with a hunjy busted a front diff after minimal trips and not real serious stuff either.
They're just not up to the job and toyota know it but too bad for us!

[RV80]

Tuf105 flogs the crap out of his and it hasn't busted yet. Having said that i probally just jinxed it for him.

[mule75]

im runnin 35 pedes and claws with shitload more power in a late 75 and only done spider gears once and pinion c/wheel at same time but i think it was from the spider gear schrapnel. had more probs with transfers holding together and reverse gear knockin teeth off.

[V6XtraHilux]

i think Micka is right.....the total percentage of breakages compared to total number sold is so low, they probably figure its an acceptable loss.....like most companies with warranty, they have stringent rules and most people wouldnt bother to argue and argue, so they would only really worry about the few numbers of seriosly aggressive warranty claimers.

I think Toyo make the 100s and Hilux for 95% of the market, with cheaper costs, but if u want an "unbreakable" toyo then ur prepared to pay higher price, and they make a nice healthy BIGGER profit.

at the end of the day is an equation of minimal percentages, small price to pay for a huge profit base
K

[TUF105]

Well i must be the exception then....

As RV said I flog the bejezus outta mine, I love the loud pedal and she constantly sees low range 1st gear at or very near the redline.

Mine has been to Ormeau several times now and never missed a beat.

[Tiny]

i think Micka is right.....the total percentage of breakages compared to total number sold is so low, they probably figure its an acceptable loss.....like most companies with warranty, they have stringent rules and most people wouldnt bother to argue and argue, so they would only really worry about the few numbers of seriosly aggressive warranty claimers.

I think Toyo make the 100s and Hilux for 95% of the market, with cheaper costs, but if u want an "unbreakable" toyo then ur prepared to pay higher price, and they make a nice healthy BIGGER profit.

at the end of the day is an equation of minimal percentages, small price to pay for a huge profit base
K

given that most never go offroad, and then most are not modified much nor driven in situations where breakages are likely then the number of diffs broken would be very low. many of us know people who have broken lots of diffs, one bloke I met in the vic alps had gone through 5 that was 18 months ago, a mate of mine is on his 4th, all three were replaced under warrenty, but they have earmarked his file with a no more diffs memo so next time he will have to fork out, the funny thing is that first time it broke in reverse, he took that ok, next 2 were in forward and under very light load, he now refuses to snatch at all, if he has to revover its winch only, another mate who has now sold his an bought a GV drives like a maniac, yet never broke a diff, 4 clutches, gearbox issues etc, and was 1hz running 18 psi the mate that has broken 3 has a n/a 1hz so god only knows

[Micka]

i think Micka is right.....the total percentage of breakages compared to total number sold is so low, they probably figure its an acceptable loss.....like most companies with warranty, they have stringent rules and most people wouldnt bother to argue and argue, so they would only really worry about the few numbers of seriosly aggressive warranty claimers.

I think Toyo make the 100s and Hilux for 95% of the market, with cheaper costs, but if u want an "unbreakable" toyo then ur prepared to pay higher price, and they make a nice healthy BIGGER profit.

at the end of the day is an equation of minimal percentages, small price to pay for a huge profit base
K

given that most never go offroad, and then most are not modified much nor driven in situations where breakages are likely then the number of diffs broken would be very low. many of us know people who have broken lots of diffs, one bloke I met in the vic alps had gone through 5 that was 18 months ago, a mate of mine is on his 4th, all three were replaced under warrenty, but they have earmarked his file with a no more diffs memo so next time he will have to fork out, the funny thing is that first time it broke in reverse, he took that ok, next 2 were in forward and under very light load, he now refuses to snatch at all, if he has to revover its winch only, another mate who has now sold his an bought a GV drives like a maniac, yet never broke a diff, 4 clutches, gearbox issues etc, and was 1hz running 18 psi the mate that has broken 3 has a n/a 1hz so god only knows

Is Land Rover making Toyotas now?

Micka