V8 or Worked Diesel for OBC Rig?

[greenfourby]

Got my GQ SWB which I want to build up for OBC in 2007

I have a 350 chev motor and EFI but I'm wondering if my hard earned will be better spent on working the diesel, port, polish, turbo etc.

Given they have to transport up to 500Kms without fuel stops I wondering if the fuel hungry v8 may not be such a great option.

Any constructive advice appreciated

Thanks

[forissan]

Is the V8 allready in the shorty, personally I think the diesels are much better allround, but that is with a bit of money spent on turbo and intercooling, but I know from experiance they can really get up and go with 12psi boost intercooler and the right tuning. if the V8 is allready in the car the expence of swaping back could pay for fuel for quite a distance. My experiance with V8 in a 4wd is they seem to lack the low RPM horspower of the factory 6 in petrol or diesel. My 2 cents anyway

[greenfourby]

Is the V8 allready in the shorty, personally I think the diesels are much better allround, but that is with a bit of money spent on turbo and intercooling, but I know from experiance they can really get up and go with 12psi boost intercooler and the right tuning. if the V8 is allready in the car the expence of swaping back could pay for fuel for quite a distance. My experiance with V8 in a 4wd is they seem to lack the low RPM horspower of the factory 6 in petrol or diesel. My 2 cents anyway

V8 is sitting on the floor in the garage from my last rig, rig alrady has std diesel in, 200ks on the clock.

[Hoonz]

every one seems to be going V8 for OBC for that top end grunt on the sand/fast stages ... V8 supercharged to get that bottom end HP/torque working

just think of the pros and cons for both ... petrols hate water ... lots of water in OBC,petrol not so reliable electrics hate water etc

diesel will keep going as long as you don't hydraulic it. no electrics blah blah blah


6 to 1 half a dozen to the other its always gonna be time and money and experience that wins or in obc just to even finish

[ludacris]

People are spending $30 000 + on diesels to get them movin. Norm walters won the 2005 outback in a V8 patrol. A V8 will run longer and harder than a diesel. Go the V8 and sell the Diesel.

LudaCris

[greenfourby]

People are spending $30 000 + on diesels to get them movin. Norm walters won the 2005 outback in a V8 patrol. A V8 will run longer and harder than a diesel. Go the V8 and sell the Diesel.

LudaCris

Kinda the way I was thinking but next issue is petrol or Gas given I believe gas is hard (impossible ??) to find on OBC, carbie is too unreliable and EFI is great but will really hate the water as Hoonz pointed out.

I wonder how waterproof you can make the EFI short of sealing up the engine bay which is not really an option anyway ...

[Hoonz]

silicone is ur friend

[greenfourby]

silicone is ur friend

it's looking that way

If I go the V8 hope I can make it sound as good as it did on the 40

[bogged]

Check out the TD42T in the forsale section that is fully blue printed Intercooled the works, and it won stages in the OBC.. Already proven to me.

[Hoonz]

cause hes upgrading to a V8

seriously tho ... engine is only one factor in the game ...
you must be able to maintain the engine and vehicle while in the middle of no where. cause it would be a shit if you payed all that good money just to pull out cause you can't fix it ... OBC is good if u can't fix it some one will help you... its the culture

reliable engine/truck, good consistant driving and a good navigator and deep pockets and extra plastic cards eheheis going to get you to the end

oh and expect to rebuild ur whole car after it for preparation for the next year ehehehe you'll get hooked

just second hand experience from helping out a townsville team
one day when i have a spare $15000 i might go a round of OBC

[bogged]

seriously tho ... engine is only one factor in the game ...
you must be able to maintain the engine and vehicle while in the middle of no where. cause it would be a shit if you payed all that good money just to pull out cause you can't fix it ... OBC is good if u can't fix it some one will help you... its the culture

reliable engine/truck, good consistant driving and a good navigator and deep pockets and extra plastic cards eheheis going to get you to the end

well said

[greenfourby]

seriously tho ... engine is only one factor in the game ...
you must be able to maintain the engine and vehicle while in the middle of no where. cause it would be a shit if you payed all that good money just to pull out cause you can't fix it ... OBC is good if u can't fix it some one will help you... its the culture

reliable engine/truck, good consistant driving and a good navigator and deep pockets and extra plastic cards eheheis going to get you to the end

well said

Yep you're right, I just want to plan this rig out properly from the start, chev motor is fairly strong and easy to fix plus parts are readily available and the GQ should be a good base to build a strong reliable rig.

Saw that motor in the for sale section, but that would blow more than my budget for the entire setup !!

I wanna get in and have a go, sick of queueing for hours to run for 2 minutes and I don't want to build a buggy (yet !)

[bogged]

Saw that motor in the for sale section, but that would blow more than my budget for the entire setup !!

what is your budget for the whole setup inc entry etc?

[greenfourby]

Saw that motor in the for sale section, but that would blow more than my budget for the entire setup !!

what is your budget for the whole setup inc entry etc?

I figure entry, spares and getting there and back fuel, food water etc is going to be the best part of $6k, I already have the motor plus most the parts to get the EFI going. If I sell the diesel I reckon I'm up for another grand to get the motor in an running on top of the what I can get for it.

Cage, barwork $3-4
Seats - have
Harnesses - Have
Recovery Gear - Have
Lockers - $3
Wheels, Tyres , Beadlocks etc $3
Winch $3k
Suspension $2k
GPS - Have

I can do all the laminating and reinforcing myself so major bucks saved there.

From the way the rig is now to comp ready somewhere between 15 and 20k depending on what I can get second hand or cheap.

[blkmav]

Add some more to you budget. I know an OBC entrant in our club that has spent over $100K on his truck

[V8Patrol]

Go with the V8

I've found similar dramas in bashcar design and although we arent driving through terain as tough as you'll be you must remember that these cars are originally designed for road use and not offroad use as such.

In the outback we originally thought that there would be literally heaps of older cars laying around to rat spares off of ..... the opposite was the case in actual fact, all the 'older cars' had long gone and far newer car bodies had replaced em...... yep to the point where one 'dumping ground' had no carbied motors at all just EFI motors .... my carbied Commodore sported an EFI fuel pump for the last bash as a result


The EFI chev will be a strong and reliable motor and they arent that bad on fuel if you play nicely with the throttle, start kicking it around tho and the fuel will vanish very fast !

As for the water issues with the electrics silicone up stuff that your NOT likely to need to open for an inspection or need to do a removal or replacement........

Use Vasoline Patroleum Jelly on things such as dizzy caps, plug leads and electrical snap together connectors, this will keep the water out yet allow it to be worked on without the need for breaking a silicone seal.
Small 'zipties' around each sparkplug boot ( both plug end & cap end ) this will stop water running down between the boot and lead and causing an earthout.

RP7, WD40, etc are ok for water removal but I've found that "brake cleaner" and "electrical cleaner" in the pressure paks work far better than the traditionally accepted 'spray oils'....... the brake and electrical paks also start flooded engines far better too.


A modified engine is NOT the way to go either....... wich sorta rules out the modded diesel a fair bit.
Reason being that IF something goes wrong .... you have to get a replacement fast.... so where will you find a ported and flowed head to suit your motor????? obviously it will take time unless your carring a spare.
I had the same ugly decision with the V8 bashcar ...... had some awsome heads and other gear that would have really given up some huge ponys but if I cracked a head water jacket or dropped a valve then I was in the poo poo big time, yet a std head could easilly be found and a simple replacement could be made without unbalancing the V8..... the same will apply with your EFI chev.... leave as much as possiable in std configuration and parts availibility wont be an issue.

By all means hot up "solo" parts...IE cam, puter chip, throttle body, etc....
The power increase wont be that great but then if they poop the decrease wont be that noticed either

On the run itself...... before ya depart check out wreckers that are 'close' to the areas that you'll be going to.... see what they have on hand or can get fast..... this will give you an insight as to what you'll need to have sitting as a backup.
Also while ya still at home have a chat to the local transport company and see if he is willing to freight stuff out to you ASAP if needed..... we had our local guy on 'hold' and the spares we may have needed were sitting here at home in my shed ready to go if needed at the drop of a hat ( read emergency phonecall )


Backup vehicle ??????
are you organising a spares truck to go with you ? ... preferably one thats the same so rating bits can be done ASAP

Kingy

[Snatchy]

v8 chev is a bit lighter than the diesel. though the difference isn't huge, every bit helps. Less stress on other components, and better power to weight.

if you build your rig with weight in mind, it might save you some hasstle and $ in the long run when you do want to shave some kilos down the track.

[bogged]

I figure entry, spares and getting there and back fuel, food water etc is going to be the best part of $6k, I already have the motor plus most the parts to get the EFI going. If I sell the diesel I reckon I'm up for another grand to get the motor in an running on top of the what I can get for it.

Cage, barwork $3-4
Seats - have
Harnesses - Have
Recovery Gear - Have
Lockers - $3
Wheels, Tyres , Beadlocks etc $3
Winch $3k
Suspension $2k
GPS - Have

I can do all the laminating and reinforcing myself so major bucks saved there.

From the way the rig is now to comp ready somewhere between 15 and 20k depending on what I can get second hand or cheap.

Before you planned anymods, go speak with an engineer. There was another dude on here from NSW having issues gettin shit engineered, was something about nothing engineered until the new laws come in (which could be 20yrs off yet ).. that may help your decision.


Im with blkmav, I think your light on with your budget. You havent listed any spare parts yet theres a couple of grand there alone. Plus theres always things you dont think of.

Maybe talk with Ossie, Jason was a first timer last event. HE did a good presentation at our club meeting for first timers.
He should throw together a webpage with the same info on it.

[greenfourby]

All great feedback.

Bogged, engineer, agreed 10 times over, going to chat to a guy in Sydney and make sure I dot I's and cross t's before a spanner is lifted.

Maybe a bit light on the budget but I can get parts at trade prices so that will help.

V8Patrol - Great insight, thanks. Chev is strong and simple and waterproofing is possible. Still a long way to go yet but great to get experienced advice.


i don't have 100k to spend on this thing, it will be done on the cheap but I believe I can give it a shot, if I can get there compete for a day (or more !!) and learn and have some fun then that will be a great result for me.

[ludacris]

Go for it champ. You do not need a $100 000 truck to be competitive at the OBC. For a $100 000 I wonder how much of the work was done by himself and does that include the purchase of the vehecle.

Hints:-

Investigate heaps. Read,watch and ask.
Buy second hand winch and get it comp prepped.
Roll cage will be between $1000 to $1500. Make sure you speak with the OBC officials to find out exactly what type of cage you need.
Stick to basics. No a frames 5 links as original is proven, strong and reliable.
Don't go too tall in lift.
Dont make truck into Show and shine as you are only going to trash it. $$$


LudaCris

[greenfourby]

Go for it champ. You do not need a $100 000 truck to be competitive at the OBC. For a $100 000 I wonder how much of the work was done by himself and does that include the purchase of the vehecle.

Hints:-

Investigate heaps. Read,watch and ask.
Buy second hand winch and get it comp prepped.
Roll cage will be between $1000 to $1500. Make sure you speak with the OBC officials to find out exactly what type of cage you need.
Stick to basics. No a frames 5 links as original is proven, strong and reliable.
Don't go too tall in lift.
Dont make truck into Show and shine as you are only going to trash it. $$$


LudaCris

Thanks Ludacris all good stuff, I was thinking a 2 to 3" Spring Lift and 2" Body to clear 36 Pedes (maybe small guard trimming on front), as far as susp components go I agree, plan is to strengthen existing where possible and keep it simple (and cheaper too !!)

[krimnl]

i believe you are light on with your budget , although whatever work you can do yourself will save $$$$$$ , i have been around the comp scene for a while and done 4 OBC's and i dont believe you need a V8 , something with some good low down power , and something RELIABLE!!!. stick with basics . a v8 in a patrol makes it hard to get spares ,and hard to trade parts when required , keep the rest of the truck as basic as you can also and keep it low. IMO i would turbo and intercool what you have spend a bit of money on suspension ect . and enter and see for yourself the money you save by not jumping into things could be quite a lot.

[greenfourby]

i believe you are light on with your budget , although whatever work you can do yourself will save $$$$$$ , i have been around the comp scene for a while and done 4 OBC's and i dont believe you need a V8 , something with some good low down power , and something RELIABLE!!!. stick with basics . a v8 in a patrol makes it hard to get spares ,and hard to trade parts when required , keep the rest of the truck as basic as you can also and keep it low. IMO i would turbo and intercool what you have spend a bit of money on suspension ect . and enter and see for yourself the money you save by not jumping into things could be quite a lot.

I reckon to get the performance out of the diesel will cost me more total than getting the V8 in as I have the engine already but budget is light I know.

When you say don't go too high do you think 3 + 2 is too much?

Thinking about it last night if I keep the suspension basically stock but heavily reinforced with a 3" lift I can get away with only panhards and caster bushes.

Personally I also know a lot more about the V8 and this engine so I can be reasonably confident with it.

Keeping it simple is the aim of the game, I just want to get in and have a go and see what happens.

[morkz]

Krimnl is right in what he' saying.

The first year you best not to have a huge amount of power but to learn to drive the outback and last.

Kevy Knott came in the top 20 with only 96kw on diesel ute nothing to extreme Gu front diff lockers and pro comp shocks.

The stages where your going to need the real grunt are in the sand and there are going to be number of people out there with a lot of power but have larger budgets so unless your prepared to spend the money now your not going to keep up with them.

But if you do want more power from your diesel you dont have to spend a fortune.

1. Larger turbo to flow more air (GT 25 Ball Bearing) $1500 aprox
2. New Manifold to suit turbo $800 - $1000
3. Intercooler (front mount or (PWR hot dog typeAIR water)) $500 - $1500
4. Injector pump (this mod needs to be done to put more fuel in as standard pump will only be good for up to about 110 - 115 kw) cost $1.5k to 3k)
5. Snorkle and air box $700

[krimnl]

I reckon to get the performance out of the diesel will cost me more total than getting the V8 in as I have the engine already but budget is light I know.

When you say don't go too high do you think 3 + 2 is too much?

Thinking about it last night if I keep the suspension basically stock but heavily reinforced with a 3" lift I can get away with only panhards and caster bushes.

Personally I also know a lot more about the V8 and this engine so I can be reasonably confident with it.

Keeping it simple is the aim of the game, I just want to get in and have a go and see what happens.

you could always sell your chev , and you dont need to go to the extent of doing injector pumps ect , just a good turbo set up and a intercooler and exhaust should give you plenty of power to begin with and it would be reliable.

5" total over springs & body lift is perfect IMO.

Keeping it simple is the aim of the game, I just want to get in and have a go and see what happens.

thats right keep it simple , a injected chev is not simple and will have a lot of teething problems that will need to be sorted out.

[bogged]

Just a good turbo set up and a intercooler and exhaust should give you plenty of power to begin with and it would be reliable..

Mick Christie has a new DTS Turbo new with intercooler forsale in the FS section.

ITEM:
As it explains, Brand new in box td42 DTS - MTQ nisssan gq or early gu Patrol Turbo kit with all warranty etc. Never used or opened.

CONDITION:
Brand spanking off the shelf.

REASON FOR SELLING:
Money needed

PRICE AND PRICE CONDITIONS:
$3000 for turbo kit
$1800 for intercooler kit

EXTRA INFO:
Also have intercooler kit, top mount for $1800
http://www.mtqes.com.au/PatrolTD42.htm
http://www.mtqes.com.au/PatrolTDIntercooler.htm


LOCATION:
Sydney

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=61349

[greenfourby]

Just a good turbo set up and a intercooler and exhaust should give you plenty of power to begin with and it would be reliable..

Mick Christie has a new DTS Turbo new with intercooler forsale in the FS section.

ITEM:
As it explains, Brand new in box td42 DTS - MTQ nisssan gq or early gu Patrol Turbo kit with all warranty etc. Never used or opened.

CONDITION:
Brand spanking off the shelf.

REASON FOR SELLING:
Money needed

PRICE AND PRICE CONDITIONS:
$3000 for turbo kit
$1800 for intercooler kit

EXTRA INFO:
Also have intercooler kit, top mount for $1800
http://www.mtqes.com.au/PatrolTD42.htm
http://www.mtqes.com.au/PatrolTDIntercooler.htm


LOCATION:
Sydney

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modul ... hp?t=61349

I know, that's who I'm getting the shorty from

It's a question of cash, diesel motor is probably worth more than the V8 so I can get it in for no cash outlay after selling the diesel !!

I'm really still in two minds.

What's a 350 with EFI worth vs a straight diesel donk?

[Hoonz]

N/A diesels are going for around 3-5k pending on condition and kms

i bought my supercharged TD42 for 6k (150thou kms)

just to give you a rough guesstimation

[bogged]

I know, that's who I'm getting the shorty from

It's a question of cash, diesel motor is probably worth more than the V8 so I can get it in for no cash outlay after selling the diesel !!

Depends on buyers, and how fast you want to sell it. Have seen TD42 for $3k on here.. have seen more have seen one for less. But only seen one sell.
It would be smarter to think about which you can sell the quickest if you need $..

There would be a much larger market for the 350 chev than the diesel.. You have the ginos street machines and all that would be keen.

[V8Patrol]

But if you do want more power from your diesel you dont have to spend a fortune.

1. Larger turbo to flow more air (GT 25 Ball Bearing) $1500 aprox
2. New Manifold to suit turbo $800 - $1000
3. Intercooler (front mount or (PWR hot dog typeAIR water)) $500 - $1500
4. Injector pump (this mod needs to be done to put more fuel in as standard pump will only be good for up to about 110 - 115 kw) cost $1.5k to 3k)
5. Snorkle and air box $700

taking the lowest prices you stated......
1. $1500
2. $800
3. $500
4. $1500
5. $700

= $5000 .... and thats working on the LOWEST PRICES
( its over the 7.5K mark if you take the higher option )

$5000 would get his 350 on LPG and have it in the rig with cash to spare .....

& again IF something goes wrong with the modded diesel donk where are you......
Larger turbo to flow more air (GT 25 Ball Bearing) , New Manifold to suit turbo, Intercooler (front mount or (PWR hot dog typeAIR water), Injector pump (this mod needs to be done to put more fuel in as standard pump will only be good for up to about 110 - 115 kw)

I'm sure these bits are just lying around in every wreckers yard not !


In all reality is there any reason as to why the current motor couldnt cope ?..... leaving it in the rig and running it as is will again save a vast sum of cash that you can better put towards the following years event once you have gained far more knowlege from the one you plan to enter in ...........
Other than that the next cheapest option is to fit the chev you have ....


Chalk n Cheese really

Kingy