nightmare surf

Post by **saint_she_aint** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:09 am

I need help and I need help bad.
I hope someone on here can help me and my poor surf.

The problem I have is it has no power on take off. The first initial 5-7 seconds it just rolls, if I am lucky, then once it goes it goes fine.

I will give a rundown of what has happened over the past 12 months and hopefully someone can pinpoint my problem.

Last December my timing belt snapped (Toyota at Ballarat had done the timing belt 30,000 kms before hand and had not changed the idler pulley which seized, however they would not take blame)
As I had no money, some friends offered to fix it the best they could for me. It turned out valves had broke, valve guides had broke, and obviously the valves had hit the pistons.

Ok so they did a quick fix and the car lasted me another 3 months before it leaked oil out of everywhere it possibly could and was down in compression pretty bad.
I had the chance to buy a cheap motor from a 1990 surf however it was a non efi. Some people may remember this, as I did ask about modding it to an efi on here. The people that put it in for me had to mod the motor by drilling a hole in the block for the crank angle sensor.

Now please take note that the car still had EXCELLENT take off right to the point that this second motor went in. From the first time I drove the car with this motor in it was awful. The take off power was worse than it is now and it was that bad that if I was parked on a slight incline it wouldnt go at all, I had to put the car into 4wd to give it lower compression to actually get it to move. Then once back on flat road I would take it out of 4wd.
This motor lasted me 3 months and then totally died. It turned out that it had 3 cracks in the head and all 4 cylinders were stuffed, along with a few other things.

So I took the plunge to get the motor rebuilt as I needed my car and couldnt afford to buy a new car. Ballarat Offroad said I could pay them off, so I decided no more back yard mechanics, get it done properly.
I took my old motor up and they decided to use the modified block for the rebuild with my original head as the other head was cracked.
To me it keeps coming back to the block. We have swapped crank angle sensors and checked for a pulse and its okay, however, my question to you is this. Is it possible that even though the TDC is picking up the pulse of the CAS that it could be maybe a few millimeters out of whack causing the slow take off?
Unless its coincidence that something else occured during the 1st engine change over, to me it all comes down to that block.

As you can imagine now what my frustration is, all I want is my car fixed. I have been to NINE mechanics and auto specialists in the past couple of months to no avail. The auto specialists told me there was nothing wrong with the auto. (3 individual places) and assured me that the autos in surfs never die.

I took it to Lane Toyota in Glen Waverley just before xmas and they told me the auto was indeed stuffed and that was the cause of my problems. It turned out that the clutches were burned out. $2500 later I still have the same problem, and have refused to pay the bill at the moment.

The engine rebuild cost me $9900 and that included rebuilding the fuel pump and starter motor and power steering box and new alternator.

The surf was dyno tested and the results were as follows
Boost acceptable at 10 psi. Power 55hp at rear wheels (average 55-62)
Vehicle exhibits poor start and stalling after start up. This in conjunction with graph indicates possible suspect injection pump problem. (The injection pump has been rebuilt and taken out a second time and sent away to be tested and came back perfect)
Lack of torque multiplication within torque convertor harsh to select reverse ( I didnt think it was lol)
transmission fluid burnt
failure of front pump seal causing oil loss resulting in burning of clutches - metal throughout transmission.

Ok on saying this about the transmission back in september I took it in to have the transmission serviced, 2 days later it was leaking. I took it back and they said they overfilled it. They drained it and 3 weeks later it dropped the lot, the front seal went. The torque convertor was apparantly sent away to be tested then and they said it was fine.
Now 3 months later they are telling me the front seal went again? and I have hardly driven the stupid car cos its always at mechanics.

I think I have said everything I need to say, sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to put down everything to make it all clearer.

I look forward to your reply

Michelle

Post by **ratboy** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:46 am

sometimes u need to say fukit and walkaway

Post by **roadrunner** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:33 pm

I'm with ratboy, accept your losses and walk away.

Even if you eventually got it running right, you'd never enjoy it due to the trouble caused

Buy something with low k's and hopefully enjoy some hassle free wheeling for a while.

Post by **big bundy** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:56 pm

Any idea on how much an imported change over engine would cost?
also the tranny?

sorry to hear about the surf. My bundy is in despirate need of a rebuild atm, i'm going to be out of pocket too

Post by **Hamo** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:38 pm

Sounds like a job for a current affairs you been ripped of because your a chick

Post by **slosh** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 4:52 pm

roadrunner wrote:I'm with ratboy, accept your losses and walk away.

Even if you eventually got it running right, you'd never enjoy it due to the trouble caused

Buy something with low k's and hopefully enjoy some hassle free wheeling for a while.

I think if I blew over $12k on repairs I would not be walking away. I would want that thing to go for a very long time.

If you have had professional mechanics rebuild the engine and gearbox it is not ur job to diagnose the problem. It sounds like u have taken the truck back to whoever but they cannot find the problem. That is the part they normally do for free- find the problem. So I would return to thr people who have taken ur money and keep hassling them. Be very firm that they need to find the problem. Working on autos is not like rocket science.

Post by **saint_she_aint** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:40 am

Thanks for your replies but that aint the answer I am after haha

Im with slosh, I have spent a fortune on this car, I aint about to give her away.

Ballarat offroad did admit defeat after 6 months of 'sharing her' with me.
They had her 2 or 3 days a week, I had her 2 or 3 days a week.
They have been good to me, and fixed other stuff for nothing for me. Non related to the engine. They did all my wheel bearings, stub axle broke and they fixed that, serviced it, put in a new cd player, fit new windshield things and few other things and never charged me a cent.

They also said IF I can find someone that knows what is wrong they will either fix it or pay them to fix it. IF it is engine related.

Like I said I have been to 9 mechanics ALL of them said it has nothing to do with the engine, its the auto, then the auto people told me it was not the auto it was the engine.

I was hoping someone on here could pinpoint the problem for me or at least come close to it, noone on the surf site has a clue. Heaps of people with surfs have driven it and have no clue. One person even pulled all his hoses off one at a time and drove it, incase mine was something that simple, but he couldnt get it to drive like mine.

Anyway happy new year!

Post by **andrewfarmer** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:08 am

I'm assuming it's a 2L-TE motor?

Questions/things to try...

1. You say no power when starting, but OK once it's moving. If you get it moving, drving OK, and then slow it to ALMOST a stop, will it then take off OK?

2. What happens if you give it some revs (say about 2000) and then dump it into drive?

If you really think it is the block (and it might be), maybe bite the bulleet and get another (known good) motor swapped in. If it works OK you know what the prob is, then you can get Ballarat to rebuild your motor again with an EFI blcok (because they shouldn't have assumed the 'bodgy' one would work).

3. Have you had the ECU checked?

4. Has anyone actually checked the CAS is putting out the correct signal at all times (esp idle?)

Post by **saint_she_aint** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:23 am

andrewfarmer wrote:I'm assuming it's a 2L-TE motor? it was, I dunno what to call it now? I guess its still a 2L-TE. The block was from a 2LT-LL.

Questions/things to try...

1. You say no power when starting, but OK once it's moving. If you get it moving, drving OK, and then slow it to ALMOST a stop, will it then take off OK?
its starts great, first go every go. It doesnt take off from a stand still. Well it takes about 2 seconds to actually move (more if I am facing uphill lol) then it slowly revs up to 2000 revs and I am lucky to be doing about 15-20 ks and once I hit the 2000 revs/20 ks it takes off.

2. What happens if you give it some revs (say about 2000) and then dump it into drive?
I havent done that. But I have tried reving it with my foot on the brake and taking off, and it still does the same thing. (My mechanic told me to try that) It does rev freely in park.

If you really think it is the block (and it might be), maybe bite the bulleet and get another (known good) motor swapped in. If it works OK you know what the prob is, then you can get Ballarat to rebuild your motor again with an EFI blcok (because they shouldn't have assumed the 'bodgy' one would work).
I am spewing, cos I gave my original block away and its now in another surf and going great. I dont wanna have to spend anymore money, well I dont have anymore, my surf ate it all. If I did get another block and it worked, they wouldnt charge me, but if it didnt work and I still have that problem, I will be up for another 6k or somethin

3. Have you had the ECU checked?
Yep, I have had 3 ecus in it, doesnt make a difference.

4. Has anyone actually checked the CAS is putting out the correct signal at all times (esp idle?)
Well my mechanic did. Now he said he checked out the positions of the CAS to TDC on 4 other surfs and they were ALL different but all obviously picked up the pulse. Mine was tested and has had 2 other crank angle sensors put in and he said it was picking up the pulse, and the cas was okay......not that I really know much about mechanics (however I have learned a hell of a lot this year lol) I just think it has something to do with that. I brang it up with them at their xmas party and they said its definitely not.

Post by **I.M.P.O.S.E** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:45 am

saint_she_aint wrote: They have been good to me, and fixed other stuff for nothing for me. Non related to the engine. They did all my wheel bearings, stub axle broke and they fixed that, serviced it, put in a new cd player, fit new windshield things and few other things and never charged me a cent.

Im sure that they made up for this with the 10 grand rebuild but!

But I also agree with slosh, I wouldnt be walking away from that sort of investment you have made. You have paid hard earnt cash for 'professionals' to do this work for you and things are not right.

I also destroyed one of these motors due to a seized idler. So I know how you feel!

Not knowing anything about diesels I went with a V6 commodore motor Did alot of it myself with the help of family and friends, so I dont have anyone to blame for failures and F&#K-ups along the way. If it stops for some reason I only seem to laugh at it cause I was the one that did the crap work in the first place.

Post by **andrewfarmer** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 11:59 am

So you can use the brake, slow it till it's only oding 1000rpm and it will pull away cleanly, but if it actually stops it's hard to get going?

What happens if it's pointing down hill, you let it get rolling then put it into drive?

When 'it wont go' - what are the revs doing. Do you have low revs, does it sound like the motor is working hard? Or will it rev freely but just not move?

Post by **saint_she_aint** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:14 pm

impose everyone told me to put a v6 in it but I didnt think I could afford it at the time lmao If I knew all this sh!t was gonna happen I woulda done it!

andrew yep if I am still moving it goes okay. Its only from a standstill that it does it.

lol no if its downhill, it goes better cos its rolling down the hill. But its not right.

It always goes it just takes time to getgoing and back to normal. The revs do stay low, the engine doesnt sound like its working hard, its not over reving in those initial stages. It just slowly gets up to the 2000 revs and then its all normal.

Post by **4x4Monkey** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:15 pm

The surf has got the "gremlin's" once anytype of car/4wd gets the "gremlin's"You just sell it off quick cos no matter wat u do somthing will all ways stuff up on ya

Post by **plowy** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:26 am

when the truck is struggling to take off is there any exhuast smoke ?

with the front seal it sounds like a blocked breather or they are fitting the seal wrong or installing the torque cnoverter incorrect or the torque conveter has wear on its seal surface area

Post by **Dingo** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:30 am

I can answer a few questions for her as I know the vehicle as well.
No there is no smoke what so ever, not even when you try to load it up to make it smoke, it won't. Even following it up hills ect.. where you expect it to load up and smoke a little bit, absolutly none and I know this is not right for a deisel. The pump has been overhauled and double checked by a Denso agent and there is nothing wrong with it mechanicly or electricly.
I beleive it is underfueling down low in the rev range for some reason.

Post by **plowy** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:43 am

i think its time to put it on a dyno and get some answer's to determine what the hell your fault is
you need to find someone who does diesel dyno tuneing and knows what there doing
even fitting a pyrometer gauge to it will be a big help to know whats happening to tell you the eng info just need to know what temp to throttle/rpm shit should be

but a dyno especially like a dyno dynamic dyno that have the computer read outs n print outs to show what the go is

Post by **Dingo** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:52 am

saint_she_aint wrote:
The surf was dyno tested and the results were as follows
Boost acceptable at 10 psi. Power 55hp at rear wheels (average 55-62)
Vehicle exhibits poor start and stalling after start up. This in conjunction with graph indicates possible suspect injection pump problem. (The injection pump has been rebuilt and taken out a second time and sent away to be tested and came back perfect)
Lack of torque multiplication within torque convertor harsh to select reverse ( I didnt think it was lol)
transmission fluid burnt
failure of front pump seal causing oil loss resulting in burning of clutches - metal throughout transmission.

Michelle

The transmission was then rebuilt and still no take off power

Post by **MY92SURF** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:28 pm

You know my thoughts from the other site.... blow that mutha trucker up. Or have it mysteriously disappear.

Or strip it for every single little part and sell it on the surf site, take that money and put it towards something new then whats left of the surf we can all have a big bonfire around.

I think now is about time to admit though that the money you've spent has been a waste. I know 10g is alot of money but for the sake of living a healthy normal life, just get rid of it. Its dead...

Post by **Cruzer!** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:06 pm

IS the auto electronically controlled or does it have a governer? if it has a governer, maybe check the gear for excessive wear/teeth damage. I had a suby touring wagon that gave me all sorts of grief not unlike what your experiencing, and tried everything, auto specialists telling me its the engine, and i took it to another auto specialist who pulled out the governer (normally three 12mm bolts and about 15 seconds labor) and found the auto governer gear had shat itself.

If not, another way (you've probably already done this) try taking off manually selecting first gear and then change to 2nd etc and see if that makes any difference to just trying to take off in Drive?

After the outlay i can understand not wanting to sell it yet.

Ben

Post by **udlman** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:58 pm

This has been beaten to death on the surf site, but.

I would be changing the complete auto trans including the torque converter, because it can't be the motor as u have rebuilt and changed that.

I would also try taking the handbrake off,

Also have a look at getting the rear brakes checked in case they are dragging.

Brad.

Post by **saint_she_aint** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:49 am

thanks for replying for me dingo

Rob shhh I love my car I aint blowing her up.

Brad I never have the handbrake on ever.
I can get the brakes checked, but I did just get all the brakes done not long ago including the master cylinder.

cruzer, I dont know if its electronically controlled or has a governer. Im assuming its electric?
I will find out.

And yea I have tried taking off in 1st and it makes no difference at all.

Post by **Dingo** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:51 pm

Electroniclly Controlled Transmission, remember the ECT button

I am working on another theroy, just waiting for some info from my friendly parts person if he can get it.

Post by **Chucky** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:45 pm

do the surf autos have a 'soft start' button for getting going in snow etc with no wheel spin. The wife's frontera has one of these buttons, marked WINTER, and when it's on it does a similar thing to what you are describing.

Post by **flyinwall** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:01 pm

change the fuel filter and get the fuel tank cleaned out it could have alge growing in it and blocking the fuel lines

Post by **plowy** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:05 pm

there are 4 types of autos for the surf

4cyl mod

v6 mod

diesel

and turbo diesel

u need to have eng runnin, have car in drive or first also have the foot on the brake and put the foot flat to the floor and count to five and see were the revs go up too

this is called a stall test to diagnose if the wrong conveter is or has been fitted

please msg back with result

Post by **Mr DJ** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:27 pm

Has anyone suggested dropping in a manual box ??

No ECU or converter issues then, and manuals are harder to find, might get back more than you paid for it

Post by **g35me** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:00 pm

I would now be turning to fuel related problems as well.

Post by **bulldogy** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:07 pm

Stall on a surf shud happen in 4wd at approx 1500 rpm

Post by **bulldogy** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:21 pm

Saint its dave surfindave mike is gunna make you a turbo pressure sensor mod that we did to mine kus as you know mine was slugd it not the auto.
If you want email me davidpilk@iprimus.com.au and give ya add and we will send it too ya and tel,l ya how too hook it up.
its just 1 plug and 1 bolt and hose.
will give ya instant power.
dave

Post by **sniper** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:53 pm

hey Saint

I agree with dingo on this im sorry. If you aint blowin any smoke its got to be fuel related. Runnin lean or just not getting enough fuel. Probably those bastards that rebuilt you injector pump.

If all else fails i will have the body of you car, dont burn it

We can dump it in the dam at yours and get insurence

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