V8 or Worked Diesel for OBC Rig?

[Juzza]

$5000 would get his 350 on LPG and have it in the rig with cash to spare Kingy

Lpg is not much use for OBC...

[meiamaro]

I agree with "MORKZ",
"The first year you best not to have a huge amount of power but to learn to drive the outback and last."
I have done a lot of club rallying over the years and have seen and learnt(the hard way.)
That a vehical set up properly.ie suspension,good tyres and moderate power is a far more pleaserable and competative to have.
Maybe an idea is to concertrate along the lines of what morkz suggested.
Then compete,finish and learn from your fist event,And then look at the following event with a list of do's/don'ts and improvements so as your
capabilities grow so does your vehicals.
Any way Best of luck,(lucky buuger. )

Cheers Ian

[Singo17]

It seems that you have taken the Chev into account as an enabler to get you the percieved power you think you will need for the OBC.

Would you have even bought the shorty with a OBC plan if you didn't have the chev? If the answer is yes then the decision I think is easy to make, stick with the 4.2.

What are your ambitions in your first OBC, mine would be to finish, many don't. I would be looking at a solid overall package and your own skillz as you have already stated (welding) will save you alot of extra dollars.

The only thing is the condition of the 4.2 in it. How many K's will it need a rebuild, the injectors and pump will be reconditioned anyway if you keep it. If so doing the turbo and intercooler at the same time while costing more than say the V8 once done will have some resale value in the longer term as well. You will get a return for the parts if you sell later is what I mean.

It is part of the package, as a first timer I would go in conservative, with the mind set of being a solid competitor out to finish and absorb the experience for what its worth, then of if the bug bites, its deep pocket time.

Part of the trick will be driving within the trucks limits, if its limited because of power an you know it and make the right decisions on stages to compensate you might suprise yourself how well you do go, alot of the big boys it would appear are playing a fine line between power, strength and reliability and if your well under the thresh hold then all will be well.

Good luck with the project, would be nice to see your results in 2007.

Regards

[greenfourby]

It seems that you have taken the Chev into account as an enabler to get you the percieved power you think you will need for the OBC.

Would you have even bought the shorty with a OBC plan if you didn't have the chev? If the answer is yes then the decision I think is easy to make, stick with the 4.2.

What are your ambitions in your first OBC, mine would be to finish, many don't. I would be looking at a solid overall package and your own skillz as you have already stated (welding) will save you alot of extra dollars.

The only thing is the condition of the 4.2 in it. How many K's will it need a rebuild, the injectors and pump will be reconditioned anyway if you keep it. If so doing the turbo and intercooler at the same time while costing more than say the V8 once done will have some resale value in the longer term as well. You will get a return for the parts if you sell later is what I mean.

It is part of the package, as a first timer I would go in conservative, with the mind set of being a solid competitor out to finish and absorb the experience for what its worth, then of if the bug bites, its deep pocket time.

Part of the trick will be driving within the trucks limits, if its limited because of power an you know it and make the right decisions on stages to compensate you might suprise yourself how well you do go, alot of the big boys it would appear are playing a fine line between power, strength and reliability and if your well under the thresh hold then all will be well.

Good luck with the project, would be nice to see your results in 2007.

Regards

I think you've hit the nail on the head

I think i'll leave the V8 in the shed until 2008 and spend more time and $ building it as a true race motor for , a turbo etc on the current diesel should see a fair return if sold after 2007.

As soon as I pick up the rig next week I'll start a new members thread and as I hook into building up the rig.

All I need now is a navvie

[morkz]

just go in the outback in 2007 and see how you go and see what other competitors are doing.

The type of motors are always changing used to be turbo diesel and now everyone has gone turbo petrols but there have been problems and some people are now going v8 but the money spent on them are in excess of 20k anyway

Either your shorty turbo diesel setup wont be to bad at all u just need a vehicle to last so look at your suspension and bracing components.

[tuf355]

buy a truck that has already done the OBC , have been aleast 3 in the last couple of months 2 x GQ`s & and a rangie ute $20-30k & you could do the 2006 OBC. just a thought
ps. you forgot the $$$$ for you GU front and 4.6 diff gears

[greenfourby]

buy a truck that has already done the OBC , have been aleast 3 in the last couple of months 2 x GQ`s & and a rangie ute $20-30k & you could do the 2006 OBC. just a thought
ps. you forgot the $$$$ for you GU front and 4.6 diff gears

Buying a built one was an option but had to be ruled out because I don't have enough cash in one hit.

Other reason is I need to learn about the truck, best was is by DIY build up

GU front, waiting till I see one real cheap !!

[Tiny]

It seems that you have taken the Chev into account as an enabler to get you the percieved power you think you will need for the OBC.

Would you have even bought the shorty with a OBC plan if you didn't have the chev? If the answer is yes then the decision I think is easy to make, stick with the 4.2.

What are your ambitions in your first OBC, mine would be to finish, many don't. I would be looking at a solid overall package and your own skillz as you have already stated (welding) will save you alot of extra dollars.

The only thing is the condition of the 4.2 in it. How many K's will it need a rebuild, the injectors and pump will be reconditioned anyway if you keep it. If so doing the turbo and intercooler at the same time while costing more than say the V8 once done will have some resale value in the longer term as well. You will get a return for the parts if you sell later is what I mean.

It is part of the package, as a first timer I would go in conservative, with the mind set of being a solid competitor out to finish and absorb the experience for what its worth, then of if the bug bites, its deep pocket time.

Part of the trick will be driving within the trucks limits, if its limited because of power an you know it and make the right decisions on stages to compensate you might suprise yourself how well you do go, alot of the big boys it would appear are playing a fine line between power, strength and reliability and if your well under the thresh hold then all will be well.

Good luck with the project, would be nice to see your results in 2007.

Regards

I think you've hit the nail on the head

I think i'll leave the V8 in the shed until 2008 and spend more time and $ building it as a true race motor for , a turbo etc on the current diesel should see a fair return if sold after 2007.

As soon as I pick up the rig next week I'll start a new members thread and as I hook into building up the rig.

All I need now is a navvie

I understand it is not 4.2 Rob?????? if so the 2.8 is not the best option and buying a 4.2 THEN working it is an exy option, given there is a chev on the bench ready to go with very little work required then imo it is a no brainer.

now on the otrher hand I have the 4.2 that is on its last legs and needs to be worked on either way but I do have the turbo on it allready, the chev is not already on the bench so either way there is a cost, the power of the v8 would be nice but mildly worked 4.2 should realy be close to bullet proof

[Tazz]

I know the car, it is a 4.2 not a 2.8 and it has farly low ks on it (for its age), no one would even bother with a 2.8 would they....

[bru21]

better off saving $$ and being able to compete. coming last power wise is better than not entering due to lack of funds. I have done everything myself and i am budgeting about 8k for the event inc sponsored entry fees. suspension is more then 2k, and imo far more important esp when less hp is concerned, reducing momentum is more of a problem than being able to accelerate after each obsticle with faded shocks. for eg my sus will owe me 6-7k installed myself.

also a 350 is so cheap compared to modding a diesel. in reality few get away with out pre comp cracks or 3 sets of head studs, numerous flanges and gaskets, 2 different turbos etc, it is a deep pocket think but good for those that know. realistically a good diesel that is big hp is 20k, an average equal to a goodish chev 7k whilst the chev is prob 5 installed.

Cage, barwork $3-4 diy mine owes me $700
Seats - have
Harnesses - Have
Recovery Gear - Have have you read the ccda/obc list $$
Lockers - $3 plus bearings, front diff, gears (esp with low hp)
Wheels, Tyres , Beadlocks etc $3
Winch $3k
Suspension $2k --3k
GPS - Have
transport and stage fuel 2-3k
entry 2.5k
new radiator, hoses, fuel lines, spares, belts, fresh wiring, waterproofing, exhaust, window nets, bilge pumps, switches, lights, ground anchor, winch cable, batteries, little things like wiper blades through to maccas on the way it all adds up. not trying to dampen spirits

but good to see someone else getting ready.

cheers bru

[greenfourby]

better off saving $$ and being able to compete. coming last power wise is better than not entering due to lack of funds. I have done everything myself and i am budgeting about 8k for the event inc sponsored entry fees. suspension is more then 2k, and imo far more important esp when less hp is concerned, reducing momentum is more of a problem than being able to accelerate after each obsticle with faded shocks. for eg my sus will owe me 6-7k installed myself.

also a 350 is so cheap compared to modding a diesel. in reality few get away with out pre comp cracks or 3 sets of head studs, numerous flanges and gaskets, 2 different turbos etc, it is a deep pocket think but good for those that know. realistically a good diesel that is big hp is 20k, an average equal to a goodish chev 7k whilst the chev is prob 5 installed.

Cage, barwork $3-4 diy mine owes me $700
Seats - have
Harnesses - Have
Recovery Gear - Have have you read the ccda/obc list $$
Lockers - $3 plus bearings, front diff, gears (esp with low hp)
Wheels, Tyres , Beadlocks etc $3
Winch $3k
Suspension $2k --3k
GPS - Have
transport and stage fuel 2-3k
entry 2.5k
new radiator, hoses, fuel lines, spares, belts, fresh wiring, waterproofing, exhaust, window nets, bilge pumps, switches, lights, ground anchor, winch cable, batteries, little things like wiper blades through to maccas on the way it all adds up. not trying to dampen spirits

but good to see someone else getting ready.

cheers bru

Good points Bru,

Dampen sprits, Never. If you really added up the TRUE cost of doing this you'd give up at the start but Tiny and I are planning to go up together to save on transport costs (parts etc)

Entry and transport is probably a little light on in terms of budget but I;ve got a while to save that up

Yep I've read the recovery gear and first aid list and I do have all that stuff.

Main issue at the moment seems to be engineering the vehicle.

V8 is ok from engineers perspective but will have to be EFI to get through an RTA emissions test.

However ...

Enginner was not keen on the roll cage, I spoke to John V from Consulmotive as he is reputable and down the line in terms of requirements. (He engineered my old 100)

He said that the roll cage could not have a front hoop fitted, given that the CCDA requirements are not allowing (according to my reading of the rules) bolt in components I can't see how you can get a engineered rig with a 6 point cage if the front section has to be removed to engineer/register.

Since not engineered = not registered in the true sense of the word I am at bit of a loss to know how to proceed.

Zaust will have to have Cat's fitted which I hand not anticpated although the headers and most of the pipe work can come from my old truck with some new bends.

Wiring, ripped the custom loom out of the 40 so still have all that, nets etc all good as are helmets etc.

EFI wiring would all be new anyway, main concern at the moment in looking at the V8 option is fuel capacity, not sure how big the standard tank is on the GQ so have to asses that soon as I don't want to chop the ass off.

Goal is to be able to remove the back seats and bolt in a barrier for comps so I can still go out on the week end with the kids.

The minister for war and finance agreed to the new project on the basis that I would be able to take the two oldest kids away for a day or week end.

Given the cost of upgrading the diesel although I know I could run it how it is I am really leaning towards sticking the chev in because I have heaps of parts for it and I'm hoping (Tiny ) will need the existing motor to replace his shagged one.

This is a longish term project with the aim to compete in 2007 so once I get the rig next week it will be all go.

Rob

[cooter]

have you considered supercharging the diesel as well as turbo no lag watsoever

[greenfourby]

have you considered supercharging the diesel as well as turbo no lag watsoever

That would be awesome but more cost and more to go wrong and more parts to carry

[bogged]

Std fuel tank 95 ltrs.

With the roll cage, speak to Glen Binskin hes a competitor in OBC. He would know what to do and about engineers for it. (he runs turbo diesels in OBC competitively)

Binskins 4wd Centre
187 High Street
Wauchope NSW 2446

How to contact them?
(02) 65852504

Fax: (02) 65853580

[ats4x4dotcom]

Make the car handle, drive, and perform first, then introduce the power, as the vehicle progresses, because more power will equal more changes to tune the car as a "package"

And I dont think pedes are the tyres to use for such an event, when you weigh up time to be made on higher speed sections vs the difference between mud traction, and the benifit [if any] vs a car that drives/handles, is capable in its own right.

The biggest downfall of most trucks in OBC is the suspension set ups for the stages, or lack of.....

Improve everything you can, shave the diffs, improve the underbody hang ups, improve the travel, improve the driveability of the vehicle, get the front end settings right, use a good seat and harness, so you only have to sit and drive, not hang on, find the vehicle limits, and then improve its performance, and tune it from there.

[Tiny]

Make the car handle, drive, and perform first, then introduce the power, as the vehicle progresses, because more power will equal more changes to tune the car as a "package"

And I dont think pedes are the tyres to use for such an event, when you weigh up time to be made on higher speed sections vs the difference between mud traction, and the benifit [if any] vs a car that drives/handles, is capable in its own right.

The biggest downfall of most trucks in OBC is the suspension set ups for the stages, or lack of.....

Improve everything you can, shave the diffs, improve the underbody hang ups, improve the travel, improve the driveability of the vehicle, get the front end settings right, use a good seat and harness, so you only have to sit and drive, not hang on, find the vehicle limits, and then improve its performance, and tune it from there.

what tyres do you suggest??? pedes are excelent fro traction and in the short course events perform well, but I understand the speed limitations SO.....maxxis? somthing like that?

[bogged]

what tyres do you suggest??? pedes are excelent fro traction and in the short course events perform well, but I understand the speed limitations SO.....maxxis? somthing like that?

have a look at what most successful people have been running in recent years.

[Tiny]

what tyres do you suggest??? pedes are excelent fro traction and in the short course events perform well, but I understand the speed limitations SO.....maxxis? somthing like that?

have a look at what most successful people have been running in recent years.

pedes have being very popular, I understand they were developed for OBC and made to suit the size giudlines or the tyre sizes were changed to suit or something.

tyre choice imo goes with driving style, vehicle and what you are happy driving one, one blokes awsum tyre is shit to another.

[bogged]

pedes have being very popular, I understand they were developed for OBC and made to suit the size giudlines or the tyre sizes were changed to suit or something.

tyre choice imo goes with driving style, vehicle and what you are happy driving one, one blokes awsum tyre is shit to another.

I dont think the pedes were designed specifically for the OBC, they are way too generic a tire for that, + there wouldnt be the sales figures to match demand to just design a tire for 10 odd trucks once a year.

Most seem to use Claws, or the Krawlers now (they won this year).

I know one dude who "SAYS" hes going to use MTR's this year

The OBC is really a kill your truck comp.. Lookin around at some of the trucks, they are fubar afterwards, like Norms, body held on with straps, and engine held in place with straps too last few days



First yr, I think people going in just like green4b, go in have fun, and see wat becomes of it. If you like it, chase sponsors next time, if you dont, you have done it, and got the damage bill to prove it

[Tiny]

pedes have being very popular, I understand they were developed for OBC and made to suit the size giudlines or the tyre sizes were changed to suit or something.

tyre choice imo goes with driving style, vehicle and what you are happy driving one, one blokes awsum tyre is shit to another.

I dont think the pedes were designed specifically for the OBC, they are way too generic a tire for that, + there wouldnt be the sales figures to match demand to just design a tire for 10 odd trucks once a year.

Most seem to use Claws, or the Krawlers now (they won this year).

I know one dude who "SAYS" hes going to use MTR's this year

The OBC is really a kill your truck comp.. Lookin around at some of the trucks, they are fubar afterwards, like Norms, body held on with straps, and engine held in place with straps too last few days



First yr, I think people going in just like green4b, go in have fun, and see wat becomes of it. If you like it, chase sponsors next time, if you dont, you have done it, and got the damage bill to prove it

Rob and I are both doing it for fun, but at the end of the day we want to be as competative as we can within our budget

[bogged]

but at the end of the day we want to be as competative as we can within our budget

agree, I wouldnt enjoy it if I wasnt competitive.

Good luck

[JemmyBubbles]

Binskins 4wd Centre
187 High Street
Wauchope NSW 2446

How to contact them?
(02) 65852504

Fax: (02) 65853580

Theyz in port macquarie now and glenn dont own the store no more also a different phone number.

On the turbo diesel aspect of things... having seen his old TD shorty in action. I can say that it moved at a fairly rapid pace. Obviously 24psi of boost, modded pump, intercooler + zaust helped ..

What speeds are you expecting to be travelling at ?? Have you driven a moderately turboed TD42 shorty ?? They do get along quite well.

As far as longevity of parts, with respect to Turboing a diesel, you will have few problems. Admittedly you will have more moving/added parts but in all they will be VERY robust and in most cases will outlive the vehicle.

[greenfourby]

Binskins 4wd Centre
187 High Street
Wauchope NSW 2446

How to contact them?
(02) 65852504

Fax: (02) 65853580

Theyz in port macquarie now and glenn dont own the store no more also a different phone number.

On the turbo diesel aspect of things... having seen his old TD shorty in action. I can say that it moved at a fairly rapid pace. Obviously 24psi of boost, modded pump, intercooler + zaust helped ..

What speeds are you expecting to be travelling at ?? Have you driven a moderately turboed TD42 shorty ?? They do get along quite well.

As far as longevity of parts, with respect to Turboing a diesel, you will have few problems. Admittedly you will have more moving/added parts but in all they will be VERY robust and in most cases will outlive the vehicle.

Nope, never driven a TD shorty, only td GQ I have drive was Tiny's one up to Willowglen (40 was ona trailer behind his GU !!)

Basically it boils down to $, plus Tiny needs to renew/recon his motor.

Correct me if I'm wrong (Tiny post here ) but plan is to chuck the shorties motor into Tiny's GQ LWB which already has turbo etc.

V8 will then go into mine, cost of conversion will be covered by selling motor, advantage is Tiny gets a good motor into his rig and he has the turbo, zaust etc already setup. Plus the old motor may be useable for some spares i.e head etc.

V8 will go into the shorty, I'm a petrol head, I luuuuv the sound of a V8 at full noise (Plus my 6YO will never forgive me if the 'Monster Truck Engine' doesn't find its way into the 'new' rig.

Pulled the motor apart today and started to do the heads and clean up the EFI ready to install.

Motor looks SH*t hot with the sweeping EFI pipes on the top, I could just stand and stare at it for hours

A lot of thought has gone into this but the big reason is that it solves a problem for me and for Tiny at the same time.

I also have a heap of spares for the chev motor like water pump, heads etc.

This will be a pretty stock V8, much as I could be tempted to trick it up I intend to leave it fairly mild at this stage, only exception will be a high flow water pump.

Like I said, I love the V8 sound. It rocks

[Newhouse]

Hey lots of good advice from various people. What other plans do you have for your shorty?? Suspension, winch ect??

[greenfourby]

Hey lots of good advice from various people. What other plans do you have for your shorty?? Suspension, winch ect??

2" body Lift
3" Springs

Lot's of laminating and plating of suspension components.

Winch, I guess a tricked up high?

Cage, Still trying to work out what will comply with OBC rules and still get engineered.

Im going to setup the inside so that the seats can come out and go back in after (Kid's will never forgive me if they can't come driving with me)

Barwork, we (my4x4.com.au) are working on some new front, side, rear protection stuff so this rig will be the SWB guinea pig

Seats, have a from my old rig, basically racing seats with the seatbelt holes.

Stereo, have to put the sub back in, need sounds on the road.

I'm sure there is heaps more but need to get the motor in ASAP before Tiny's dies then I can sort out the right springs to get the ride height sorted.

[Newhouse]

Sounds good Im also building a shorty at the moment , Hopefullly to one day do the outback challenge. What I was wondering was though do you need your car to be fully engineered to compete in this event?

[greenfourby]

Sounds good Im also building a shorty at the moment , Hopefullly to one day do the outback challenge. What I was wondering was though do you need your car to be fully engineered to compete in this event?

I don't know if they check the engineers certificate but the rig does have to be registered so by default given the level of mods it would have to be

Someone else car to comment on this .....