Hi all,
Couple of quick q's for the experts
I'm looking at building up a project rangie and have found a late 80's vogue in good nick but with a tired motor, I also have access to a 4.4 in pretty good shape for it
considering I intend putting it on gas eventually..........
How hard is it to convert the 4.4 to run the original injection system and is it worth it or should I go for a carby (if possible)?
Has anyone done the conversion and if so how hard was it to get through compliance testing considering the emission controls (and old age of the 4.4) I figure that using the original 3.5 heads and emission system then it shouldn't be a drama.
Lastly.........should I just stick a 3.9 in it instead!!
Thanks in advance for any replies. Cheers
Mango
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Rangie and injected 4.4?
Moderator: Micka
A 3.9 would be easier and cheaper to efi than a 4.4. If you can get a good cheap 4.4 ( i picked mine up for $250 and its on its original bore and bearings) then fit it with a good carb, you will need to throw buckets of cash at it to efi it properly.
Saddle up tonto, its the not so loanrangie! . 98 TDI DISCO lightly modded with more to come.
Stick with a 4.4 more poke, 3.9 easier though. Standard injection with adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a dyno run and you should be sweet and won't cost bucket loads. dont a holley if you do any serious driveing as they will flood out on the steeper angles and the twins are perfect for hills but are higher maintenance and not great for HP.
Incase you can't tell i like to use EFI. another option is after market EFI but it's not legal for the road.
Incase you can't tell i like to use EFI. another option is after market EFI but it's not legal for the road.
Wanted: Car trailer or beaver tail truck, let me know what you got
Just ask the guys who have efi'd a 4.4, lots of hassles not heard of one that has had good results. Aftermarket ecu is only way to go, just adding a rising rate regulator to the stock inefficient efi wont fix it.
Saddle up tonto, its the not so loanrangie! . 98 TDI DISCO lightly modded with more to come.
In this case I agree with Loanrangie.
I think you are being optomistic to think that you can adapt a 3.5 injection to a 4.4.
I think Cloughy was saying that you could get a 3.5 injection to run a 3.9 and maybe you could.
But remember the injection is almost 20 years old and was specifically tailored to the 3.5. The old flapper L jets were tailored to each engine and even the UK engines had a different one to the Australian engines. They were not adaptable..
Your injectors are also too small to run a 4.4 properly at high rev /load and are an old design with a pipe on top rather than Orings. someone recently suggested that VL turbo injectors are a possbility but I reckon they now may be hard to get.
So you will need an aftermarket set up and probably a 3.9 rail that takes the o ring injectors. 3.9 injectors would be fine or you can buy recent design Bosch 4 hole injectors from the USA reasonably. I have.
But it will not be that cheap even if you are gifted electronically and can build your own Megasquirt.
Regards Philip A
I think you are being optomistic to think that you can adapt a 3.5 injection to a 4.4.
I think Cloughy was saying that you could get a 3.5 injection to run a 3.9 and maybe you could.
But remember the injection is almost 20 years old and was specifically tailored to the 3.5. The old flapper L jets were tailored to each engine and even the UK engines had a different one to the Australian engines. They were not adaptable..
Your injectors are also too small to run a 4.4 properly at high rev /load and are an old design with a pipe on top rather than Orings. someone recently suggested that VL turbo injectors are a possbility but I reckon they now may be hard to get.
So you will need an aftermarket set up and probably a 3.9 rail that takes the o ring injectors. 3.9 injectors would be fine or you can buy recent design Bosch 4 hole injectors from the USA reasonably. I have.
But it will not be that cheap even if you are gifted electronically and can build your own Megasquirt.
Regards Philip A
We have a bloke in the RRC with a 4.6 that runs the old 'flapper' injection. Runs okay but it struggles to get over 4,000 rpm's and really holds back the performance of the 4.6.Aftermarket or maybe the later hot-wire system is the go, but a injected 4.4 isn't recomended.
Also I'm not a big fan of spacer kits mainly because many 4.4 Rangies in our club I've seen have vaccum leaks around the inlet usually where the spacers are, which are hard to track down. The 3.9 is probably the best and most reliable option and they're is many to choose from unlike the 4.4 engines.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Trav
Also I'm not a big fan of spacer kits mainly because many 4.4 Rangies in our club I've seen have vaccum leaks around the inlet usually where the spacers are, which are hard to track down. The 3.9 is probably the best and most reliable option and they're is many to choose from unlike the 4.4 engines.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Trav
Land Rover- The Collingwood of 4WD's!!!!
If that's the case, then they have no idea what they are doing.Aquarangie wrote:Also I'm not a big fan of spacer kits mainly because many 4.4 Rangies in our club I've seen have vaccum leaks around the inlet usually where the spacers are, which are hard to track down.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Trav
A vacuum leak is very easy to trace - it whistles.
Sealing the leak is also not difficult.
A cheap way is silicone it up.
A better way is to strip it, renew the gaskets (have to make the manifold/spacer gasket) and put it back together - properly.
Just my thoughts - and experience.
Harry
79 Rangie (his name is Ralf) 4.4 dual fuel, with plenty of other mods.
Oils leaks are a factory option to prevent rust!
79 Rangie (his name is Ralf) 4.4 dual fuel, with plenty of other mods.
Oils leaks are a factory option to prevent rust!
Hi Mango
I've been into Rangies for too many years now and have had quite a few with 4.4's. My experience is that the 4.4's are a terrific motor with heaps of grunt that really transforms the Rangie however they do have their problems. Firstly they aren't as nice to drive as the underpowered 3.5's. If you are going to do an engine transplant into a Rangie you really need a motor that will comfortably (read smoothly and effortlessly) rev over 4000 rpm and whilst the 4.4's will easily rev past that, they aren't as smooth as the 3.5's and you lose a bit of the Rangie niceness. I have never balanced a 4.4 so that might resolve or help the problem however their crank pin location is not ideal so maybe not.
Another thing to consider is the age of the 4.4 block. They are now around 30 years old and the casting technology in Australia (were they cast by Leyland Australia?) back then wasn't as good as it could have been and many of the blocks are quite thin around the bores. Combine that with the ravages of time and some owners not using the correct coolant etc etc and you easily get blocks that have little or no casting around parts of the liners subsequently they can develop hot spots and all sorts of other problems. I know of an engine builder in Brisbane that rebuilds 4.4's for fitment into Stags, MG's etc and he x-rays every block before starting the rebuilding process ... these engines aren't just honed and re-rung they are completely reconditioned. Anyway, he told me that he disguards something like 8 out of 10 blocks due to pourous castings etc.
I guess following on and probably linked to the block problem they are notorious overheaters ... although some never suffer the problem, most Rangie's with 4.4's will have had to have their cooling system upgraded (like any engine conversion). I have a theory that this is linked to the abovementioned block problem and might explain why some you can never keep cool whilst other's have no problem.
Finally there is the height issue. The 4.4's have a 17mm longer stroke (I recall) and aside from being a little wider as a result, they are also taller and that can make for clearance problems under the bonnet .. depending on what induction system you are running of course. An easy fix for that is to do a 2 inch body lift and if that was already part of your plans then great.
Your motor sounds cheap at a carton of beer however it would be great if you could test it in a car and running.
Good luck
Simo
I've been into Rangies for too many years now and have had quite a few with 4.4's. My experience is that the 4.4's are a terrific motor with heaps of grunt that really transforms the Rangie however they do have their problems. Firstly they aren't as nice to drive as the underpowered 3.5's. If you are going to do an engine transplant into a Rangie you really need a motor that will comfortably (read smoothly and effortlessly) rev over 4000 rpm and whilst the 4.4's will easily rev past that, they aren't as smooth as the 3.5's and you lose a bit of the Rangie niceness. I have never balanced a 4.4 so that might resolve or help the problem however their crank pin location is not ideal so maybe not.
Another thing to consider is the age of the 4.4 block. They are now around 30 years old and the casting technology in Australia (were they cast by Leyland Australia?) back then wasn't as good as it could have been and many of the blocks are quite thin around the bores. Combine that with the ravages of time and some owners not using the correct coolant etc etc and you easily get blocks that have little or no casting around parts of the liners subsequently they can develop hot spots and all sorts of other problems. I know of an engine builder in Brisbane that rebuilds 4.4's for fitment into Stags, MG's etc and he x-rays every block before starting the rebuilding process ... these engines aren't just honed and re-rung they are completely reconditioned. Anyway, he told me that he disguards something like 8 out of 10 blocks due to pourous castings etc.
I guess following on and probably linked to the block problem they are notorious overheaters ... although some never suffer the problem, most Rangie's with 4.4's will have had to have their cooling system upgraded (like any engine conversion). I have a theory that this is linked to the abovementioned block problem and might explain why some you can never keep cool whilst other's have no problem.
Finally there is the height issue. The 4.4's have a 17mm longer stroke (I recall) and aside from being a little wider as a result, they are also taller and that can make for clearance problems under the bonnet .. depending on what induction system you are running of course. An easy fix for that is to do a 2 inch body lift and if that was already part of your plans then great.
Your motor sounds cheap at a carton of beer however it would be great if you could test it in a car and running.
Good luck
Simo
I injected a 4.4 about 3 years ago now , after lots of teething problems we have it just about right ..
1 wolf v4 programable ecu
Spacer blocks for the 3.5 hands ( which need to have the chambers opened up)
The injection manifold off a disco
Ajustable fuel regualtor ( set at 35 psi if i recall )
Atleast a 100 alt alternator
Fuel pumps and lines if the rangie is not injected already
they are the basics you will need plus a dyno guy who knows wolf or which ever ecu u r going to use , I spend $1500 on dyning alone on people who had no clue as to what they were doing .
Power wise is it very sweet and smooth if i was to do it all agian .. 4.6 cheaper and easier
1 wolf v4 programable ecu
Spacer blocks for the 3.5 hands ( which need to have the chambers opened up)
The injection manifold off a disco
Ajustable fuel regualtor ( set at 35 psi if i recall )
Atleast a 100 alt alternator
Fuel pumps and lines if the rangie is not injected already
they are the basics you will need plus a dyno guy who knows wolf or which ever ecu u r going to use , I spend $1500 on dyning alone on people who had no clue as to what they were doing .
Power wise is it very sweet and smooth if i was to do it all agian .. 4.6 cheaper and easier
I run a 4.4 in my rangie and will one day go to fuel injection so a bit of hunting around i will get a ford ea cpi injection of a 3.9 the one that look like a carby, Talking to a bloke at the shop and he said that it should fine for the job. The only thing that he said needed to be done was to put the hall effect into the dizzy and to make a new eight window or find one to suit for the hall effect in the dizzy. I am going this way because of the carby like setup has the throtle body injectors fuel regulator all in one.
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