exhaust

Post by **crispy** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:54 pm

on my 1 litre sierra wot would be the best exhaust system to run, size wise.
ive got a set of extractors but wot would be best 2 run from there bak?

Post by **Beastmavster** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 5:44 pm

crispy wrote:on my 1 litre sierra wot would be the best exhaust system to run, size wise.
ive got a set of extractors but wot would be best 2 run from there bak?

There's 2 beliefs on exhausts and you'll never get a "right" answer. Start the great debate.

Here's the two theories:

1) ANY FLOW RESTRICTION IS BAD NEWS AND ROBS YOU HORSEPOWER

2) WITHOUT BACKPRESSURE YOU'LL LOSE BOTTOMEND POWER

I guess it comes down to what you want to believe.

I'd go for something bigger as the original Zook pipe is tiny, 1 1/2" - 2", aiming for something in between the two theories. Too big and the noise inside the cabin's gonna deafen you.

Putting a 2 1/4 pipe on my Vitara WAS gonna be my next "improvement".

Post by **purefmx** » Tue Jun 24, 2003 9:40 pm

2 inch, mandrel bent extractors and a 2inch system, premier exhaust in Newcastle quote that. I think thats reasonable, but with a std 1L i wouldnt go any bigger than 2 inch. Its one thing to argue about the laws of physics and relate this to the notion of back pressure etc, The way i see it is that "Mr. Tokyo Suzuki" has placed a lot of time and effort in employing the correct team of researchers and engineers to come up with a system that works best with the governing bodies, whilst at the same time utilize the available amount of horsepower from that particuler engine. Having "Joe Blow" at the local exhaust shop say that a huge system with stainless pipes and HKS mufflers aint always the best way to go.
Just something to think about.

Post by **Projects** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 8:20 am

There's an article on the following site about exhausts and backpressure that will give you a better understanding about what you may want or not want to do. http://www.cmr.uq.edu.au/~rotor/auscar/auscar.html

Post by **crispy** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:24 pm

yeah thanks alot, im not really sure wot ill go with yet maybe just a fraction bigger than wots there.

Post by **Beastmavster** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:31 pm

purefmx wrote: The way i see it is that "Mr. Tokyo Suzuki" has placed a lot of time and effort in employing the correct team of researchers and engineers to come up with a system that works best with the governing bodies, whilst at the same time utilize the available amount of horsepower from that particuler engine. Having "Joe Blow" at the local exhaust shop say that a huge system with stainless pipes and HKS mufflers aint always the best way to go.
Just something to think about.

Unfortunately this means that Mr Suzuki or any other factory car wins every time over a little bit of fiddling and you should never modify your car - since after all Suzuki spent millions of $ making the Sierra "Just Right" and you just spent a Sunday arvo and half a slab thinking. It comes down to usage - Suzuki make a car for everyone and I make a car for ME.

Sure any factory car and big R&D bucks make a perfect all round car, but there's nothing wrong with trading off stuff you don't need or want for stuff you do.

Even so I agree - no bigger than 2" on this sucker unless you have a 1600 in your shed just waiting for a sunny weekend and a slab of beer.....

Post by **purefmx** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:19 am

Unfortunately this means that Mr Suzuki or any other factory car wins every time over a little bit of fiddling and you should never modify your car - since after all Suzuki spent millions of $ making the Sierra "Just Right" and you just spent a Sunday arvo and half a slab thinking. It comes down to usage - Suzuki make a car for everyone and I make a car for ME.

Sure any factory car and big R&D bucks make a perfect all round car, but there's nothing wrong with trading off stuff you don't need or want for stuff you do.

Even so I agree - no bigger than 2" on this sucker unless you have a 1600 in your shed just waiting for a sunny weekend and a slab of beer.....

We're talking exhaust systems here only! Just what sort of improvement in real horsepower do you think an oversize standard system is really going to have? Any noticeable change? I feel for the amount of difference its actually going to make, i wouldnt be changing it unless it's damaged or stuffed. The only reson i quoted up that system is that i have torn the old one off in two sections, and Premier wont fab up any extractors below 2".

Post by **greg** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:58 am

i don't have any tech know how to back up this statement but i recall reading that 2" is the magic number for the 1.3L sierra, and apparently with a set of extractors and the 2" exhaust the improvement in power for the engine is supposed to be approximately 10 - 15%*.

However, i'm not sure about the 1L version - I'm guessing it is going to be pretty similar right?

* - This is just info i have picked up from talking to people within the suzuki club and readings from various sites on the web. I haven't done an exhaust system on my car.

Cheers,
Greg

Post by **skippy** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 1:05 pm

is your exhaust broken?

if it's not why not put the $$$ towards another mod that will actually give you long term benefits and scope for growth?

just my 2c worth

Post by **grimbo** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:12 pm

How much perfromance gains do you expect to get, it's a 1 litre. As Skippy said your money may be better spent on other things if your current exhaust is in good condition.

Post by **Guy** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:21 pm

OK .. when I went from stock rubber to 235's .. I noticed a hit in both performance as well as economy.
I went to extractors and a 2.25 inch exhaust .. Performance seemed to be about the same as it was before at low RPM's and a little better at high RPMS economy. I was getting around 400Kms per tank on the small factory tyres, with the 235's and factory exhaust I was getting around 350Kms per tank, 235's and extractors/Exhaust .. bach to about 380 390 per tank ( thats with the increased rolling diameter of the tyre, so it was probarbly more like 410 or so)

But thats just my "Joe Blow" at the exhaust shop, perhaps I got lucky ..

...

With the 1 litre I used to have I replaced the exhaust manifold with extractors as factory mainfolds without a crack were very rare and expensive, actually more expensive than what I paid for the extractors, that rarely crack if properly installed. I went to a 1.5 inch system .. didnt really notice any power loss or gain .. but it was much quieter ..

Guy

Post by **purefmx** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:23 pm

grimbo wrote:How much perfromance gains do you expect to get, it's a 1 litre. As Skippy said your money may be better spent on other things if your current exhaust is in good condition.

exactly

Post by **bj on roids** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:24 pm

skippy wrote:is your exhaust broken?

if it's not why not put the $$$ towards another mod that will actually give you long term benefits and scope for growth?

just my 2c worth

like orange paint...... :lol:

Post by **bj on roids** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:25 pm

grimbo wrote:How much perfromance gains do you expect to get, it's a 1 litre. As Skippy said your money may be better spent on other things if your current exhaust is in good condition.

dude it makes more horesepower per litre than any motor ever built its like, a big block, but better :oops:

Post by **jtraf** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:01 pm

On the 1lt suzuki we ran a 2in exhaust. The preformance wasn't bad and the noise inside the cabin was not noticeable. NVH in a sierra does not exist. 2in front to back is all you will need.

cheers

James

Post by **skippy** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 6:14 pm

bj on roids wrote:like orange paint......

hehehe

*gives back the gay comedian crown for today*
It suits you better BJ.

The orange beast(or not so beasty) will be no longer soon enough.

Post by **crispy** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 7:14 pm

skippy wrote:is your exhaust broken?

if it's not why not put the $$$ towards another mod that will actually give you long term benefits and scope for growth?

just my 2c worth

Exhaust is rooted ive patched up the muffler as it is so i thought i might aswell replace the whole lot as its pretty much stuffed

Post by **crispy** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 7:16 pm

bj on roids wrote:
skippy wrote:is your exhaust broken?

if it's not why not put the $$$ towards another mod that will actually give you long term benefits and scope for growth?

just my 2c worth

like orange paint......

wots wrong with orange paint?? :lol:

Post by **Midget** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 7:22 pm

Why not go all out and do the engine swap and the exhaust at the same time.
IT'S ONLY MONEY AND YOU CAN'T SPEND WHEN YOUR DEAD..

Jamie

Post by **zookjedi** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:47 pm

after i put the 31's on my car it sucked what little power it had so since my exhaust was stuffed anyway i got extractors and a 2inch system which added a noticeable power gain, not huge but noticeable, but with it came alot of bloody noise and since my exhaust points straight back my crappa sucks all the fumes in and gives me a headache but my canopy is also on the wrong side of " on the way out" . remembering when manufactures make a vehicle , don't be fooled they build them for sales , not performance they build them as cheap as possible and to meet regulations hence there is always a lot of room for improvement if not than why so many hot up parts , espeacily sports cars whom one would think being a sports car would already have everything in the go fast realm. how much thought do you realy think they put into the sierra engines when it comes to power? not sure? plant your foot at the lights!
i rest my case .

Post by **purefmx** » Thu Jun 26, 2003 9:06 pm

stressed wrote:how much thought do you realy think they put into the sierra engines when it comes to power? .

Initially i thought the aussie marketing department made the zook out to be a "fun in the sun" soft-top cheap 4x4. So i dont see how or why they would target them out as being a powerful vehicle. 1 litre 4 cylinder with what, 2 valves/cylinder, extremely small carb and inlet/exhaust ports, where do you think the horsepower is going to come from?

Post by **zookjedi** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 9:16 pm

thats right , but there's always room for improvement, change the carby flow the head , install a turbo what ever. all's im saying is what they build can always be bettered gutless 1litre engines included

Post by **Beastmavster** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:03 am

stressed wrote:thats right , but there's always room for improvement, change the carby flow the head , install a turbo what ever. all's im saying is what they build can always be bettered gutless 1litre engines included

I can guarantee you if you own a 1.0 litre dont do a 1.3 - turbo it instead.

I seriously was looking at "downgrading" from 1.6 to 1.0 turbo.....

Post by **crispy** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:56 pm

i got the exhaust done yesterday, 1 3/4inch right through with a lukey muffler, sounds great except for it not revving above 3000rpm, ive been told i need to up the fuel flow or lean it up to compensate for the flowing system, is it a simple procedure to do or a mechanic job?
thanks
crispy

Post by **zookjedi** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 8:56 pm

strange it won't rev past 3000rpm mine revs to redline no probs
hows it go in the low revs? does it start ok? getting rid of the exhaust gases quicker usally means better quality air for the next cycle thus needing more fuel, its a matter of changing your jet sizes, easy to do but can be time consuming to get the right size, ie trial and era.
rev the guts out of it in top gear than stop switch it off and remove your spark plugs , checking there colour can tell you heaps about your air fuel ratio. if not to confident take it to a carb speacilised to get it set up once and for all.
has the exhaust shop done a car like yours before? if so they might be able to tell you how many sizes to go up (jets)
one last thing you dont wanna get it revving high just to find your bottom end starts to run erratic.
if worse comes to worse get a reduced tip to put on the end of your exhaust clamp and all only be about 10-15 bucks

Post by **OVERKILL ENG** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 8:06 am

crispy wrote:i got the exhaust done yesterday, 1 3/4inch right through with a lukey muffler, sounds great except for it not revving above 3000rpm, ive been told i need to up the fuel flow or lean it up to compensate for the flowing system, is it a simple procedure to do or a mechanic job?
thanks
crispy

RUBBISH it shouldn't have made adifference to how hard it will rev if anything it will rev harder I would say there is a restriction somewhere like the muffler has collapsed.
SAM :shock:

Post by **purefmx** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:58 am

Ill say thats crap, if it was fine before and all you've done is replaced the exhaust with a 1 3/4 inch system, thats not the problem. Something else has happened, vacuum operated secondaries might not be opening.

Post by **crispy** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:46 am

problem solved!
the side on the air cleaner that got the hot air from the manifold was taped closed so it was a lack of air flow, so i just rigged up another pipe into the guard and it goes great.
thanks for ur replies

Post by **camskizook** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:55 pm

Suzuki Viagra wrote:
stressed wrote:thats right , but there's always room for improvement, change the carby flow the head , install a turbo what ever. all's im saying is what they build can always be bettered gutless 1litre engines included

I can guarantee you if you own a 1.0 litre dont do a 1.3 - turbo it instead.

I seriously was looking at "downgrading" from 1.6 to 1.0 turbo.....

1L Turbo? Interesting....any idea what sort of turbo and manifold you would use to do that? I wouldnt think the 1L motor would last real long if you did that

Post by **Beastmavster** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:13 pm

camskizook wrote:
Suzuki Viagra wrote:
stressed wrote:thats right , but there's always room for improvement, change the carby flow the head , install a turbo what ever. all's im saying is what they build can always be bettered gutless 1litre engines included

I can guarantee you if you own a 1.0 litre dont do a 1.3 - turbo it instead.

I seriously was looking at "downgrading" from 1.6 to 1.0 turbo.....

1L Turbo? Interesting....any idea what sort of turbo and manifold you would use to do that? I wouldnt think the 1L motor would last real long if you did that

You only need a small turbo, after all too much pressure and the 1litre go boom pretty easy...... although really head bolt pressure (ie maxcombustion pressure) should be almost identical to 1.3 so long as intake is cool enough). Try a cappacino turbo which gets heaps more power in stock form from 660cc (or even a starlet turbo, charade turbo etc). Manifold would have to be custom, but that's not hard. Get your standard 1.0 one, cut the pipes off and get an exhaust place to make one with equal length pipes to the turbo chamber.

Turbo's dont all have to be big rpm high pressure - the lower rpm the turbo kicks in and the smaller it is the more torque on a smaller engine. Sure you lose some top end (smaller turbo = less potential air flow) but in the application that we're looking at (eg being able to turn 31"s on a 1 litre at idle) I think that's a non issue compared to 1.6 grunt and $100 replacement engines........ Sure beats $2000 each for injected 1.6's...

It can be really hard explaining this to the narrowminded but it's all down to volume and flwo. A small turbo needs less flow, so needs lower rpm from a bigger engine. Eg if the Cappacino needs 3000 rpm to come on boost, the 1.0 should come on boost at 2000rpm (0,66/1.00x3000). not perfect due to the 4v head on the f5 engine but close enough.

Chuck an old sidedraft rover/jag or even downdraft weber carby on it and the horsepower at the wheels should be better than a 1.6 carby Vitara engine.

If someone wants to swap me a stable turbo 1.0 for my carby 1.6 once I've got it rego'ed in QLD I'll be more than happy to. Of course if you'd done it and got it rightyou probably wouldn't want to.

the real issues I see are
1)cooling if a stock 1.0 radiator is used (crap)
2)potential for intercooler to be clogged with mud.
3) risk of cracking exhausts after repeated rievr crossigns.

perhaps water/air intercooling is the go?

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