So if company 1 made the links and company 3 lengthened them then company 3 must have joined the arm somewhere so why didn't they replace the hole arm with a new piece or does that mean that there are more than one join in the arm.
In my opinion and in practice if someone wants us to lengthen an arm we would replaced the whole piece not join it. Anyway if company 3 legthened bothe top links which I assume they would have does that mean the other link has a join in it as well. If so I would be replaceing it.
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Jeep Suspension thread?
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
I was just about to say a very similar thing Sam.
However i feel FT is just trying to put all the blame back on Company#1. Fact is Company#3 is no better than Company#1 for modifying these arms if they were allready as bad as FT describes them which i still find hard to beleive.
Hey we have prob all at one stage joined arms or done some real dodgy work on our own vehicle but how someone that has done either of these modifications on a customers vehicle just astounds me.
I dont understand why the arms were lengthened by placing a small section in there in the first place. The entire length of the arm should have been replaced no IF's, BUT's or MAYBE's!
However i feel FT is just trying to put all the blame back on Company#1. Fact is Company#3 is no better than Company#1 for modifying these arms if they were allready as bad as FT describes them which i still find hard to beleive.
Hey we have prob all at one stage joined arms or done some real dodgy work on our own vehicle but how someone that has done either of these modifications on a customers vehicle just astounds me.
I dont understand why the arms were lengthened by placing a small section in there in the first place. The entire length of the arm should have been replaced no IF's, BUT's or MAYBE's!
Strange Rover wrote:...Just to throw some more into the pot - I find it very hard to believe anything that Fire Truck is posting....
Sam
Similar things could be said about other people's posts...but as I've said before I'll bite my tongue...
Although has anyone see an ad recently for some "custom bar work". Could have sworn someone else had made it before....
Apparently people think I'm too patronising (that means I treat them like they’re stupid).
Steve wrote:I think Col Mustard did it in the library with the candlestick!No sense causing fights among BB members. I say leave it to FT and the 3 companies to work out amongst themselves.
Bingo we have a winner!
Constructive posts about businesses is a good thing but when posts with half truths and incomplete situations only lead to a very long thread that is doing no one any good. When ALL the facts are there then and only then can a true discussion occur otherwise it is a lot of heresay and bs.
Ransom note = demand + collage
Oh boy... here we go for the LAST TIME...
I am sorry for not posting enough info right at the start - that was MY BAD. I thought that would make it less complicated, but it obviously did the opposite. I also, unfortunately, was away from my pc for most of the weekend celebrating my birthday - I did not realize how much this had escalated in the mean time.
I am sorry Companies 1-3...
And to round things off, here is my final summary:
I did not do this work - this is the 1 thing I am sure of. Why would I do this, drive out in the middle of the bush, snap the arm and then spend 4 hours trying to get my rig home??
I have been in contact with all 3 companies - all 3 companies were involved in making or modifying the arms in some way. They are all quite open to this fact. I will NOT give any details here of who did exactly what.
All 3 companies do not believe that it was their work that failed.
So again - sorry for this major disturbance in the force. The company that made the arms is not at fault, nor are any of the companies that modified the arms.
I am blaming no-one, as there is clearly no way to know who did what.
I am sorry for not posting enough info right at the start - that was MY BAD. I thought that would make it less complicated, but it obviously did the opposite. I also, unfortunately, was away from my pc for most of the weekend celebrating my birthday - I did not realize how much this had escalated in the mean time.
I am sorry Companies 1-3...
And to round things off, here is my final summary:
I did not do this work - this is the 1 thing I am sure of. Why would I do this, drive out in the middle of the bush, snap the arm and then spend 4 hours trying to get my rig home??
I have been in contact with all 3 companies - all 3 companies were involved in making or modifying the arms in some way. They are all quite open to this fact. I will NOT give any details here of who did exactly what.
All 3 companies do not believe that it was their work that failed.
So again - sorry for this major disturbance in the force. The company that made the arms is not at fault, nor are any of the companies that modified the arms.
I am blaming no-one, as there is clearly no way to know who did what.
www.TeamFireBug.com
Thanks to:
abt4x4.com - Just Customs
Staun beadlocks - Solid Axle
Cummins - Maxxis
Thanks to:
abt4x4.com - Just Customs
Staun beadlocks - Solid Axle
Cummins - Maxxis
I think a bit of an outline of the facts would be good at this point as the waters are very muddy. Correct me if I am wrong as I didn't get to read the whole thread before it was moved...
1. FT made a post on the board regarding the fact that his prototype calbah suspension had broken on the weekend. He provided a number of pictures and did not directly accuse calbah of any wrong doing - the post was kept very short. Although it was implied it was their workmanship that was at issue from the photos and the subject at hand. FT was under the impression only calbah and company 3 had had modified the arms. Company 3 was not at fault as the break was at the opposite end to their work completely. Realistically FT should of given calbah a chance to answer whether it was their fault in private before bringing it onto the board without being 100% sure.
2. Everyone made a heap of assumptions and a big discussion ensued with everyone taking sides etc.
3. Chester came on and made a response asking for a full retraction. He also stated he had seen the arms being modified by company 2, after calbah had effectively signed off on the kit. The tone of the post was not very nice and contained some amatuer hour legal writing. Deformation and defamation are slightly different things
4. After this post came to light, FT responded with a question regarding why Chester had not mentioned the arms were modified at some point after they had left Calbahs control. FT obviously did not realise anyone else had modified them apart from Calbah originally when they were built (and company 3 which he was well aware of and not concerned with their work) Chester witnessed a third party (company 2) modifying them in person and he did not pass that info on to FT.
5. With no further public response from Chester, FT decided that due to the new information that had come to hand he would offer an apology. As would anyone of us if it became obvious that it was not clear who might be at fault. He assumed it was calbah which at first it definitely seemed it was - but then chester mentioned the extra piece of info about company 2 doing some modifications as well.
6., the post was yanked by the admins - which is probably a good thing.
In retrospect, FT should of made 100% sure he knew calbah were at fault. And given the information he had available to him it certainly looked like they were. He should of also given calbah the opportunity to look over the broken arm the rest of the kit and comment on what the problem was. This would of shown immediately it wasn't there workmanship. Due to the previous dealings FT had with calbah over the prototype kit in the first place I believe he didn't choose to have any more contact with calbah. Fair enough.
Chester should of possibly mentioned to FT that someone else had modified the suspension after it had left calbah. But he probably thought that FT was well aware of this as it was his jeep being worked on. Regardless it might of been a good idea to check what was going on with FT as this was the first prototype of the calbah jeep suspension kit and it would obviously reflect badly if anything happened with the kit when it was first tested. It would of been good to see Chester come onto the board and mention he did not thing it was his fault (without all the legal stuff) and offer to give the whole thing a once over to assess what the situation was.
FT apologised as soon as the situation become unclear, and that is good enough for me. He really has nothing to gain by bad mouthing Calbah, and as you could see from the first post it was not done with malicious intent. It was informative and further posts were clarified with comments like "this is my personal opinion only".
Calbah also had nothing to gain by supplying a control arm that was not completed to their presumably high standards. They own a large company and have stated they throw out tons of steel a year to avoid poor workmanship. They need to work on their customer relationships by the looks of things though...
So I think that all parties are partially at fault, and I doubt anyone will get to the bottom of this as it is basically one persons word against the other, with no concrete proof. But lets hope there is some sort of resolution at the end of the day.
Apologies for the long post
That is all probably as clear as mud...
1. FT made a post on the board regarding the fact that his prototype calbah suspension had broken on the weekend. He provided a number of pictures and did not directly accuse calbah of any wrong doing - the post was kept very short. Although it was implied it was their workmanship that was at issue from the photos and the subject at hand. FT was under the impression only calbah and company 3 had had modified the arms. Company 3 was not at fault as the break was at the opposite end to their work completely. Realistically FT should of given calbah a chance to answer whether it was their fault in private before bringing it onto the board without being 100% sure.
2. Everyone made a heap of assumptions and a big discussion ensued with everyone taking sides etc.
3. Chester came on and made a response asking for a full retraction. He also stated he had seen the arms being modified by company 2, after calbah had effectively signed off on the kit. The tone of the post was not very nice and contained some amatuer hour legal writing. Deformation and defamation are slightly different things
4. After this post came to light, FT responded with a question regarding why Chester had not mentioned the arms were modified at some point after they had left Calbahs control. FT obviously did not realise anyone else had modified them apart from Calbah originally when they were built (and company 3 which he was well aware of and not concerned with their work) Chester witnessed a third party (company 2) modifying them in person and he did not pass that info on to FT.
5. With no further public response from Chester, FT decided that due to the new information that had come to hand he would offer an apology. As would anyone of us if it became obvious that it was not clear who might be at fault. He assumed it was calbah which at first it definitely seemed it was - but then chester mentioned the extra piece of info about company 2 doing some modifications as well.
6., the post was yanked by the admins - which is probably a good thing.
In retrospect, FT should of made 100% sure he knew calbah were at fault. And given the information he had available to him it certainly looked like they were. He should of also given calbah the opportunity to look over the broken arm the rest of the kit and comment on what the problem was. This would of shown immediately it wasn't there workmanship. Due to the previous dealings FT had with calbah over the prototype kit in the first place I believe he didn't choose to have any more contact with calbah. Fair enough.
Chester should of possibly mentioned to FT that someone else had modified the suspension after it had left calbah. But he probably thought that FT was well aware of this as it was his jeep being worked on. Regardless it might of been a good idea to check what was going on with FT as this was the first prototype of the calbah jeep suspension kit and it would obviously reflect badly if anything happened with the kit when it was first tested. It would of been good to see Chester come onto the board and mention he did not thing it was his fault (without all the legal stuff) and offer to give the whole thing a once over to assess what the situation was.
FT apologised as soon as the situation become unclear, and that is good enough for me. He really has nothing to gain by bad mouthing Calbah, and as you could see from the first post it was not done with malicious intent. It was informative and further posts were clarified with comments like "this is my personal opinion only".
Calbah also had nothing to gain by supplying a control arm that was not completed to their presumably high standards. They own a large company and have stated they throw out tons of steel a year to avoid poor workmanship. They need to work on their customer relationships by the looks of things though...
So I think that all parties are partially at fault, and I doubt anyone will get to the bottom of this as it is basically one persons word against the other, with no concrete proof. But lets hope there is some sort of resolution at the end of the day.
Apologies for the long post
That is all probably as clear as mud...
Just reading a few other posts on here about products etc and can't belive my eyes. There are countless opionins of different products being chatted about and some people have come right out and said a certian product is "shit and why would you bother doing that in the first place". No one has jumped on thier back accusing these people of deformation, lets try and keep things on the board consistant shall we!!!
It's a real shame that this has happened to FT, I am really looking forward to seeing his Jeep in action in a few of the comps in the future!!!
It's a real shame that this has happened to FT, I am really looking forward to seeing his Jeep in action in a few of the comps in the future!!!
LEXX wrote:Just reading a few other posts on here about products etc and can't belive my eyes. There are countless opionins of different products being chatted about and some people have come right out and said a certian product is "shit and why would you bother doing that in the first place". No one has jumped on thier back accusing these people of deformation, lets try and keep things on the board consistant shall we!!!
It's a real shame that this has happened to FT, I am really looking forward to seeing his Jeep in action in a few of the comps in the future!!!
We are trying to keep things consistant and really try to not have to moderate anything.
NOW - the reason that thread was pulled is this.
IMO Fire Truck delibrately withheld information to make Calbah look bad. He also LIED about his knowledge of people modifying the links after they left Calbah. This opinion is based on the information that came from that thread and Fire Trucks own admission. So I feel that my opinion is correct (this is the bit that is my call)
If anybody else gets on here and delibratly lies and misleads to intentially do anybody harm then they will be moderated also.
Sam
No worries with that Sam, just stiring the pot again and have no probs with the pulling of the post. I just get a bit concerend somtimes about a moderators position and where thier opinion of lieing is based. The guys that know FT personally know that he would never intentialy lie, I think it has been a case of people looking to hard to try and find fault and possibly people trying to rack up browine points.
MY OPINION ONLY!!!!!
MY OPINION ONLY!!!!!
Now it is also OK for people to get on here and give their opinion on any companies products/service. But they should give a fair and honest account of the situation so that other people can make a true judgement of that persons claims.
When people post lies and delibratly mislead what am I supposed to do????
(the misled part is the title of his thread with the broken link picture and the statement "Nuff said" implying that the fault was that of calbah. The lying part is when he stated that he didnt have knowledge that sombody modified the links once they left calbah when he obviously has.)
If Fire Truck came on here with pics of broken links and described the true situation (that he didnt know who was responsible for the failure) and how the manufacture and subsequent modification of the links came about then the development of that thread would have been very different and everything would have been nice and rosy.
Sam
When people post lies and delibratly mislead what am I supposed to do????
(the misled part is the title of his thread with the broken link picture and the statement "Nuff said" implying that the fault was that of calbah. The lying part is when he stated that he didnt have knowledge that sombody modified the links once they left calbah when he obviously has.)
If Fire Truck came on here with pics of broken links and described the true situation (that he didnt know who was responsible for the failure) and how the manufacture and subsequent modification of the links came about then the development of that thread would have been very different and everything would have been nice and rosy.
Sam
Strange Rover wrote:LEXX wrote:Just reading a few other posts on here about products etc and can't belive my eyes. There are countless opionins of different products being chatted about and some people have come right out and said a certian product is "shit and why would you bother doing that in the first place". No one has jumped on thier back accusing these people of deformation, lets try and keep things on the board consistant shall we!!!
It's a real shame that this has happened to FT, I am really looking forward to seeing his Jeep in action in a few of the comps in the future!!!
We are trying to keep things consistant and really try to not have to moderate anything.
NOW - the reason that thread was pulled is this.
IMO Fire Truck delibrately withheld information to make Calbah look bad. He also LIED about his knowledge of people modifying the links after they left Calbah. This opinion is based on the information that came from that thread and Fire Trucks own admission. So I feel that my opinion is correct (this is the bit that is my call)
If anybody else gets on here and delibratly lies and misleads to intentially do anybody harm then they will be moderated also.
Sam
Sam FT never lied about anything.
He was never aware that anyone other than calbah and company 3 had done any work on the arms at all. He was certain that it was not company 3's fault as the arm broke at a join that was at the opposite end to where the work by company 3 was completed.
He deliberately kept the first post very short and to the point without saying anything directly incriminating against calbah to try and make the minimum fuss possible. It did however imply that calbah was at fault as the evidence at hand suggested that they were.
If he really wanted to be malicious he would never of made the apology.
If he wanted to be malicious the first post with the pics would of read a bit differently.
If he really wanted to he could of posted all of this completely anonymously under another name, then there would of been no repurcussions.
It seems no one is at fault - who knows. Someone has to be :(
FT is not a liar and I will personally vouch for that, and so will numerous other people from the 4x4 community.
The evidence was there in the beginning that calbah fawked up.
Then due to calbah claiming it was someone else it turned out the evidence was no longer valid (if you trust chester's word)
So FT apologised and has try to let it die off.
Seems all about right to me....let's let it die off and go a wheeling
Also my problem is now you have, probaly, personally formed an opinion of FT without ever meeting him in person. We all know what is typed on the BB and what you really mean can be totally mis-interpreted. Unfortunately though the BB you have no one on one contact and lack the body language of a conversation.
All I really ask Sam is for you to stop accusing FT of deliberalty lieing and put it down to a bad case of judgement and a lack of information.
All I really ask Sam is for you to stop accusing FT of deliberalty lieing and put it down to a bad case of judgement and a lack of information.
The reason I am saying that Fire Truck has lied is his post in response to Calbars statement where Fire Truck said-
Now IMO he said this to further convince everybody here that the state of the links was solely Calbars doing as he is saying that nobody worked on the links after Calbah manufactured them.
Now, it was only through Ruffs searching that we found evidence that sombody else had modified the links. It was only once Ruff posted this information in the thread that Fire Truch changed his tune and admitted that the links had been subsequently modified by other parties and he was unsure of who caused the link failure.
Now the way I read it is Fire Truck has delibrately lied and misled everybody here to cause Calbah harm.
I carnt see any other way to view the situation. It was only by our searching that the true situation was found.
If Fire Truck had got his way it would just be his word against Calbah and it is very easy for his word to be believed. Fire Truck would have gotton away with untold damage to Calbars reputation. And this would have been the worst possible outcome given that Fire Truck really doesent know who is at fault and this BB would have helped him achieve that.
Sam
I am not aware of any modifications done to the arm after leaving your shop.
Now IMO he said this to further convince everybody here that the state of the links was solely Calbars doing as he is saying that nobody worked on the links after Calbah manufactured them.
Now, it was only through Ruffs searching that we found evidence that sombody else had modified the links. It was only once Ruff posted this information in the thread that Fire Truch changed his tune and admitted that the links had been subsequently modified by other parties and he was unsure of who caused the link failure.
Now the way I read it is Fire Truck has delibrately lied and misled everybody here to cause Calbah harm.
I carnt see any other way to view the situation. It was only by our searching that the true situation was found.
If Fire Truck had got his way it would just be his word against Calbah and it is very easy for his word to be believed. Fire Truck would have gotton away with untold damage to Calbars reputation. And this would have been the worst possible outcome given that Fire Truck really doesent know who is at fault and this BB would have helped him achieve that.
Sam
The reason I am so determined to convince everybody that Fire Truck has lied and delibrately misled everybody in that thread is because this is the reason why the origional thread was removed.
I am trying to show that I didnt remove the thread just because one person was having a go at one company. If this was the reason then there would be all sorts of implications about the motives of those that control this board.
This board is here for everybody and we are not here to protect the interest of any company. And we certaintly dont moderate information that may be damaging to companies.
But, that being said, we carnt allow stuff on here that is delibratly misleading because we feel that that isnt good for the development of the board nor for anybody in the 4wding industry.
I hope that people can understand what I am trying to achieve here.
I have never typed so many words in my life but I really do need to get across the motives of why the thread was removed.
Sam
I am trying to show that I didnt remove the thread just because one person was having a go at one company. If this was the reason then there would be all sorts of implications about the motives of those that control this board.
This board is here for everybody and we are not here to protect the interest of any company. And we certaintly dont moderate information that may be damaging to companies.
But, that being said, we carnt allow stuff on here that is delibratly misleading because we feel that that isnt good for the development of the board nor for anybody in the 4wding industry.
I hope that people can understand what I am trying to achieve here.
I have never typed so many words in my life but I really do need to get across the motives of why the thread was removed.
Sam
FireTruck wrote:Clarification: I did not know who modified the arm WHERE IT BROKE... guess I should have said it that way huh...
Oh, and I still don't know by the way.
Doh.
I now believe this but at the time of removal of the thread that wasnt my belief.
I can also understand that it wasnt your intention to cause Calbar harm by delibratly posting very little information in your first post with the title that you chose.
I just wish that this could have been handled differently by all those concerned.
Sam
Sorry Sam, but I think your drawing a very long bow there mate, and a down right incorrect one about FT.
If you want to play semantics and make words match your belief go right ahead, but get off your high horse and stop crapping on and calling someone like FT a lair.
You've got a solid knowledge of the background between FT and Calbah have you? I've got a rough idea, and as I've said, if I were in his position I'd have said much bloody worse (and a long time before this point).
FT's stated on several occasions he's sorry - accept it and move on. But he ain't lied at all in terms of the fact that as far as he was aware the part that broke handn't been modified since it left the original shop. I've asked you before to back that call up, and other than skirting around it, you've done no such thing.
As zzzz mentioned a bit of the fault in all this bullshit could probably been shared between all parties, including all of us on the board that jumped to conclusions. Ultimately however I hope the final outcome out of all this crap is that...
1) the Firetruck gets back on the road again
2) whomever was responsible for this realises how bloody dangerous their work was and never repeats it again.
3) we can all get back to wheelin'.
And that's my opinion!
If you want to play semantics and make words match your belief go right ahead, but get off your high horse and stop crapping on and calling someone like FT a lair.
You've got a solid knowledge of the background between FT and Calbah have you? I've got a rough idea, and as I've said, if I were in his position I'd have said much bloody worse (and a long time before this point).
FT's stated on several occasions he's sorry - accept it and move on. But he ain't lied at all in terms of the fact that as far as he was aware the part that broke handn't been modified since it left the original shop. I've asked you before to back that call up, and other than skirting around it, you've done no such thing.
As zzzz mentioned a bit of the fault in all this bullshit could probably been shared between all parties, including all of us on the board that jumped to conclusions. Ultimately however I hope the final outcome out of all this crap is that...
1) the Firetruck gets back on the road again
2) whomever was responsible for this realises how bloody dangerous their work was and never repeats it again.
3) we can all get back to wheelin'.
And that's my opinion!
Apparently people think I'm too patronising (that means I treat them like they’re stupid).
Ben wrote:But he ain't lied at all in terms of the fact that as far as he was aware the part that broke handn't been modified since it left the original shop. I've asked you before to back that call up, and other than skirting around it, you've done no such thing.[/b]
What part dont you understand.
Fire Truck posted that.
I am not aware of any modifications done to the arm after leaving your shop.
and you just posted that
But he ain't lied at all in terms of the fact that as far as he was aware the part that broke handn't been modified since it left the original shop.
Now I can say with certainty that Fire Truck did indeen know that the part that broke HAD been modified since it left the origional shop.
I dont know how to explain this more clearly. It is there in black and white. Can you understand why I thought that Fire Truck delibratly lied in that post??
By the sounds of it Fire Truck can understand why I have formed that opinion and has correct my view in his post a few up from here.
Now Fire Truck has since said that he meant to say something to the effect of "I am not aware of any modifications done to the arm in the section that failed after leaving your shop."
I am trying to move on.
Sam
Make mine a bourbourn mate!!!!
And happy birthday for the week end, hope you had a good one.
Let's leave the situation with company 1,2,3, 56, 48, 34,23 and supps 4 and 8, yahhh I've won lotto!!! We all enjoy the same thing and let's move on as everyone has said. Gotta say it's keep us all glued to the humm of the monitor for a while. Thanx for a great debate guys.
As has been said, see ya on the trails!!!
And happy birthday for the week end, hope you had a good one.
Let's leave the situation with company 1,2,3, 56, 48, 34,23 and supps 4 and 8, yahhh I've won lotto!!! We all enjoy the same thing and let's move on as everyone has said. Gotta say it's keep us all glued to the humm of the monitor for a while. Thanx for a great debate guys.
As has been said, see ya on the trails!!!
RUFF wrote:A1MAV wrote:
Firetruck certainly the maddest tj ive seen in oz
Cheers
I havent even seen this rig so how about someone post some pics up
Im sure ive seen some in members (i think)
Maddest tj = seen long arm kits on em here but none with a set of diffs to match the rest They are a sweeet rig a set of 37"s mtr would suit it Just ask any american!! or 40 mtrs
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