Low Range "Rock Crawler" gears

Post by **MightyMouse** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:11 pm

Has anyone done any work on very low range transfer case mods for the Feroza. Having added larger wheels and tyres its a bit of a problem off road.
Its sort of looks feasable in the manual but without seeing one in the flesh its hard to tell if a gear sap is possible and I don't have a spare case to play with.

Anyone have any information / feedback ?

Post by **HotFourOk** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:07 pm

I've never heard of replacing the transfer gears in a Roza.. or even a Rocky for that matter...

Some people who mod thier rigs end up transplanting Hilux or Patrol or similar diffs, and you could utilise the transfer case from the donor car... You can then get aftermarket gearsets for the new transfer case setup.

I heard somewhere on here that after fitment of larger tyres (Rocky in particular) you could use different ratio diff centres to raise the gearing for better drivability. As different models such as older diesels and petrol rockys had larger ratio diffs... Its just getting your hands on them these days

Post by **RockyF75** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:16 pm

I was going to say something along the lines of "yeah, the rock-crawler gears are at any 4x4 store, next to the air lockers, snorkels, and other cool mods for daihatsu's"

, but then I re-read what you asked and I'm guessing you mean a custom jobby? Like, tinkering around with a daihatsu gearbox/tranny to lower the ratio urself

Could you transplant actuall gears from a different 4x4

Post by **Spartacus** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:52 pm

i rang up marks and got told over 5grand for a dual transfer adapter
using and my 2 transfers.

this was a couple of year ago now i think?

where are ya? i got a gearbox n transfer in pieces goin cheap in brisbane... :drinking:

Post by **MightyMouse** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:58 am

Yes - the idea was to change the low range countershaft as a minimum and if really pushed to it the input and output gears.
Had a preliminary "chat" with a custom gear manufacturer and to my amazement it is possible to change the number of teeth on the countershaft without automatically changing the input and output gears.

There are limits however to the changes posssible when done this way so replacing all four gears might be required.

Thats where the ability to have a look at a real one is required - whilst the manual isnt too bad its not good enough to do any real developemnt work.

I am in Melbourne and have no objection to buying a dismantled or even broken transfer case so I can do some research.

This is still at the "scheme" stage, it may not be possible or affordable but if no one tries - then nothing will ever happen. My end goal obviously is to get a gearset for myself, but I have no problems with sharing the knowledge and eventual gear manufacturer with anyone else if it proves possible.

I suspect that a few sets would be cheaper than just one.

Post by **crazymanwithavan** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:45 am

Dam fine MightyMouse,
I'm keen to see how you progress, as I have thought along these lines, but not pursued it, due mainly to delro dilemma.

"but if no one tries - then nothing will ever happen"
it's always good to sometimes think outside of our round earth.

Post by ***BESTY*** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:49 am

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Who's got the dollars to buy a second t-case to pull it apart and then try to get new gear sets made for it.

I think thats why you have Daihatsu's........'cause they're relatively cheap to run........nobody has that sort of cash 'spare'

The easiest way to get lower gears, is to swap a different driveline into your car.....and then buy the 'off-the-shelf' reduction gearset for the box you swapped in.

Post by **Toyhatsu** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:59 am

*BESTY* wrote:The easiest way to get lower gears, is to swap a different driveline into your car.....and then buy the 'off-the-shelf' reduction gearset for the box you swapped in.

Right

Or put in dual transfer cases with a reduction set in the rear case...then change the differential gears...and then...

Post by ***BESTY*** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 pm

Toyhatsu wrote:
*BESTY* wrote:The easiest way to get lower gears, is to swap a different driveline into your car.....and then buy the 'off-the-shelf' reduction gearset for the box you swapped in.
Right Or put in dual transfer cases with a reduction set in the rear case...then change the differential gears...and then...

As I said !!

OFF-THE-SHELF (Toyota - Marlin..................)

Post by **SimplyPV** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:20 pm

or just shut up, stop raining on his parade, and let him dream and chase after it.

i'm in the u.s. but if your still interested in the t-case/tranny, your more than welcomed to have mine as soon as i take it out (reverse is gone and 1,3,5 gear is on its way out) minus the shipping fee. i think it might be a killer though. sure hope you get what your looking for though. keep us posted on how things come about.

regards

Post by **rOd** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:58 pm

SimplyPV wrote:or just shut up, stop raining on his parade, and let him dream and chase after it.

But why keep quiet if you can help by telling the truth?

Why spend ALOT of money getting transfer gears made when the rest of the drivetrain is weak???

Post by **crazymanwithavan** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:52 am

Because IMHO,
if we stopped when someone says "don't reinvent the wheel",
Pedro the donkey would still be pulling our carts

Post by ***BESTY*** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:58 am

crazymanwithavan wrote:Because IMHO,
if we stopped when someone says "don't reinvent the wheel",
Pedro the donkey would still be pulling our carts

BUT.....we're NOT reinventing the wheel !!

You are trying to make lower gearsets for a t-case which has been done before.....numerous times by places that know they will get their R&D money back by having the ability to sell multiple units to a large market.

The Daihatsu market is exceptionally small.....worldwide !!! how many units do you think you would be able to sell / make to ultimately, make it a worthwhile project ??

Ask Bitsamissin in the Mitsu Forum about the problems with making new gearsets.

Post by **crazymanwithavan** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:27 am

hi Besty,

Please don't take me in the literal sense, I am making a lot of inferences.

I'm not saying it's wrong or right, or possible
I'm not trying to offer expertise, I am not qualified to.

I'm saying what the heck, give it a go.
We do things everyday, that someone else has already done, why do we bother?
I'm saying it doesn't hurt to re-do things, play with things.
Just for the sake of personal curiosity.

hope I didn't offend or portray an unintended message

Post by **Rb25sil80** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:10 am

Yeh im with crazy. If some moron can piss away 10k on a custom fibreglass bodykit for his pink lancer I dont see what the problem is with this guy trying to engineer a custom gearset. And hey if he actually manages to do it maybe some of us other guys will benefit. Some people are just so god damn negative !

Not all companys are 100% bottom lined profit, there are actually places that like to help our their customers!! And if this guy is happy to fork out for R&D costs I really cant see a place having a problem with knocking a few sets up as they will be the ones making the profit for doing bugger all accept the machine work !

Cheers

Post by **rOd** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:49 pm

One of the best ideas of late from Daihatsu 4wheelers IMO is Spartacus's Aus Rocky with MQ axles. Why?

He has addressed 4 things (maybe more) with his axle swap modification.

1. Stronger axles
2. Lower R & P ratio
3. Wider track
4. He is now able to get diff locks

You can either take the smart approach and get great results or take a half thought out approach and yield jack.

Website · Post by **murcod** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:41 pm

As a word of encouragement, a guy in Sydney has had custom gears made for the internals of his Feroza gearbox. That was so it would hold together behind his turbo HD-E engine.

Post by **RockyF75** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:47 pm

rOd wrote:One of the best ideas of late from Daihatsu 4wheelers IMO is Spartacus's Aus Rocky with MQ axles. Why?

He has addressed 4 things (maybe more) with his axle swap modification.

1. Stronger axles
2. Lower R & P ratio
3. Wider track
4. He is now able to get diff locks

You can either take the smart approach and get great results or take a half thought out approach and yield jack.

Got rego?

If I thought for a minute i'd be able to engineer a Rocky on MQ diffs (sprung over of course), i would have bought the MQ diffs that were in the forsale section last week, 400 for front and rear IIRC, but no, in this free democracy called australia we have to make the majority happy, so I am stuck with the stock drivetrain as many others, and would LOVE to see ANY aftermarket mods, even if they were done in a backyard - also cant afford to have no work car for 2-3weeks will all the bugs are ironed out.

My uncle makes metal moulds for making rubber seals, i should ask him how hard it would be to machine gears. He's got all the big machines for it

Punch in the exact mesurements and the machine carves it out, not sure if can do zig-zags like a gear though.

But yes, the 'easy' approach would be waking diff diffs under it, but I dont think the rock needs it, just get a welded front (and rear if ur game), winch, 31's - the chunkiest ones u can find - , spring over or even just 2" lift and longer/drop shackles, and i'll bet the lil hatsu will still keep up with the bigger cars

Post by **Spartacus** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:31 pm

rOd wrote:One of the best ideas of late from Daihatsu 4wheelers IMO is Spartacus's Aus Rocky with MQ axles. Why?

He has addressed 4 things (maybe more) with his axle swap modification.

1. Stronger axles
2. Lower R & P ratio
3. Wider track
4. He is now able to get diff locks

You can either take the smart approach and get great results or take a half thought out approach and yield jack.

yep, got it in four

Got rego?

If I thought for a minute i'd be able to engineer a Rocky on MQ diffs (sprung over of course), i would have bought the MQ diffs that were in the forsale section last week, 400 for front and rear IIRC, but no, in this free democracy called australia we have to make the majority happy, so I am stuck with the stock drivetrain as many others, and would LOVE to see ANY aftermarket mods, even if they were done in a backyard - also cant afford to have no work car for 2-3weeks will all the bugs are ironed out.

My uncle makes metal moulds for making rubber seals, i should ask him how hard it would be to machine gears. He's got all the big machines for it Punch in the exact mesurements and the machine carves it out, not sure if can do zig-zags like a gear though.

But yes, the 'easy' approach would be waking diff diffs under it, but I dont think the rock needs it, just get a welded front (and rear if ur game), winch, 31's - the chunkiest ones u can find - , spring over or even just 2" lift and longer/drop shackles, and i'll bet the lil hatsu will still keep up with the bigger cars

yeh, i do

Is it fully engineered??
not yet... extended shackles and welded rear

all under QLD transports watchful eyes

Post by **Nev** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:40 pm

thats a plug for ya hey skip! Never cease to impress..good job mate...now get that thing back on the tracks god dammit!

Post by **RockyF75** » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:33 pm

Spartacus wrote:
rOd wrote:One of the best ideas of late from Daihatsu 4wheelers IMO is Spartacus's Aus Rocky with MQ axles. Why?

He has addressed 4 things (maybe more) with his axle swap modification.

1. Stronger axles
2. Lower R & P ratio
3. Wider track
4. He is now able to get diff locks

You can either take the smart approach and get great results or take a half thought out approach and yield jack.
yep, got it in four

Got rego?

If I thought for a minute i'd be able to engineer a Rocky on MQ diffs (sprung over of course), i would have bought the MQ diffs that were in the forsale section last week, 400 for front and rear IIRC, but no, in this free democracy called australia we have to make the majority happy, so I am stuck with the stock drivetrain as many others, and would LOVE to see ANY aftermarket mods, even if they were done in a backyard - also cant afford to have no work car for 2-3weeks will all the bugs are ironed out.

My uncle makes metal moulds for making rubber seals, i should ask him how hard it would be to machine gears. He's got all the big machines for it Punch in the exact mesurements and the machine carves it out, not sure if can do zig-zags like a gear though.

But yes, the 'easy' approach would be waking diff diffs under it, but I dont think the rock needs it, just get a welded front (and rear if ur game), winch, 31's - the chunkiest ones u can find - , spring over or even just 2" lift and longer/drop shackles, and i'll bet the lil hatsu will still keep up with the bigger cars
yeh, i do

Is it fully engineered??
not yet... extended shackles and welded rear
all under QLD transports watchful eyes

anyone got a fork so i can eat my words

Well, looks like i'll have to save up to buy a clapped out DD for a few weeks

(not for like 2 years though

)

Post by **MightyMouse** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:46 pm

Well a lot of different opinions expressed....

Whilst everyone has a legimate view on this, I dont want to change axles, transfer cases etc etc.
I am also not going into production here - ARB etc has nothing to fear from me - but I do have engineering facilities and have access to custom gear cutting.
If it can be done, and its not a sure thing at the moment, its a simple way of fixing my gearing problem in low range. I also am happy with my high range at the moment with 31inch tyres its about 3200 RPM @ 100K a diff change will hurt this as it cruises well.

No one else has to agree - its just a relatively simple possible solution to my gearing problem. If others are interested thats great, but not a prerequisite.

So if anyone has a broken F300 Feroza transfer case ( preferably in Australia - but open to suggestions ), I would like to hear from you.

Post by **SimplyPV** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:06 pm

my offer is still on the table, as well as full support.

for the others,

maybe its not a matter of easily swapping stuff out. maybe he just loves daihatsu so much that hes not as willing to butchure it like some others are on here (ahem)!

and who knows, maybe he wants to make things alot more capabile in the illegal sense but yet be able to hide it all effectly be the factory housing and what not (not that i blame him, i feel sorry for u all under your restrictions).

so all in all, quit bitchin about which way is "smarter" because who knows, he might be the "smart" one after all since its pretty clear he'll have close to no problems keeping rego (since it sounds like such a huge deal) and insurance, and wheel better than some others because they cant have rego on their rig due to the OBVIOUS illegal mods done to it.

so again, all in all, props to him!

(do share your results!)

Post by **MightyMouse** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:24 am

Thanks SimplyPV. As you can understand will try to find one in Australia as a first choice simply to keep freight costs down - but if all else fails then will investigate shipping.

With all the legal stuff being discussed its interesting to note that changes to low range via gearswaps is 100% legal according to my research. Not even an engineers certificate required - and as pointed out its virtually impossible to spot anyway.

If you have driven a Suzi with "Rockcrawler" gears and locked diffs you will understand the difference they both make.

Will keep trying anyway.

Post by **redzook** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:12 pm

is the transfer divorced in feroza's? neva had a look under them

Website · Post by **murcod** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:16 pm

No- it's all bolted together directly onto the gearbox backend.

Post by **redzook** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 5:43 pm

murcod wrote:No- it's all bolted together directly onto the gearbox backend.

ohh

is it 1:1 high range?

also its centered rear output aint it?

Post by **rOd** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:34 pm

redzook wrote:
murcod wrote:No- it's all bolted together directly onto the gearbox backend.
ohh

is it 1:1 high range?

also its centered rear output aint it?

Yes it is.

Post by **redzook** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:54 pm

rOd wrote:
redzook wrote:
murcod wrote:No- it's all bolted together directly onto the gearbox backend.
ohh

is it 1:1 high range?

also its centered rear output aint it?
Yes it is.

any one ever thought of running duals?

run a zuk transfer behind the feroza?

Post by **SimplyPV** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:45 am

not much room. not sure if anyone has tried.

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