Knocking Sounds fron 4-Runner V6 3V-Z motor...HELP!!

[Toyo Truck]

Hi guys,

My mate has a 1991 V6 3.0L (3V-ZN motor) 4-runner that is making
some knocking noises between 2000-3500 RPM

It doesn't sound too terminal, but definately in need of repair soon.
Funny hting is, it doesnt do it when cold only when at operating temperature?

Took it to a mechanic and he said that it might be a worn conrod journal
or maybe a loose piston joining pin.

Anyone had this issue on their rig?
ANY help would be massively appreciated.

Anyways, to try and fix the issue...
we tried to take the sump off so we could have a look, but there was
a slight problem, the flex plate (rear end plate on the bellhousing)
appears to be bent outward toward the front of the car which covers half of the rear bolt points for the sump itself??!!

Did anyone else have this issue when removing the sump?
How do you get the sump off on this motor so we can have a look at the
crank and the conrod bearing journals??

I'll try and get some pics for you so you know exactly what I am talking
about.

Cheers,
Bart

[4x4Monkey]

Could be a big-end bearing shot
Either way its gonna need a rebuild

[Toyo Truck]

Jeez thats not too good at all...sounds like an expensive job on the old
3V-ZE...

From our testing yesterday, we were able to work out that if you remove number 2 spark plug, and then rev the motor, the noise is almost gone?
Put it back on and the noise comes back?

Until a solution to this problem with getting the damn sump off, we will have to just try and sqeeze some more out of the motor
What would be the best way to prolong the life of the current 3V-ZE??
We put in some thicker oil 20W-50 and that made the noise a little better,
what else can be done from here? What about some of those oil additives Lucas, etc??

Cheers,
Bart

[Gribble]

From our testing yesterday, we were able to work out that if you remove number 2 spark plug, and then rev the motor, the noise is almost gone?
Put it back on and the noise comes back?

Me thinks big end.

Its going to be expensive.

As for the sump thing, is the flex plate bolted to the gearbox? Or if its one of those tin ones just bend it back.

[Toyo Truck]

Hey Gribs,

It is the tin one, about 1.5mm thick.
What do you use to bend it in? I don’t wanna break anything else around it.
Or do you just put a big screw-driver up against it and give it a whack with a hammer or something??
Whats the best way?

I think my mate is gonna buy and then build up a new bottom end,
so a new crank, bearings, everything from the head down, and then
keep driving this one into the dirt, then swap bottom ends.
Would this be the go, or just buy a wrecker motor complete??

Cheers,
Bart

[TWISTY]

Depending on how much rebuilding the bottom end costs, it might be time to look into a Lexus V8 conversion. This is what I done when my 3VZE V6 sh!t itself.....cost me just over $6000....and could be done for more or less depending on how much you mate can do himself.

[Toyo Truck]

Twisty,

How much is involved in this swap cause I am trying to convince
him to swap it out, but he did a conversion to his last car, so shouldn't
be too hard for him.

What bellhousing did you use and where did you get it from?
Do Toyota do a standard 1UZ -> R series box bellhousings??

What else needs to be done?

Cheers,
Bart

[TWISTY]

The swap is really straight forward....

You'll need a front sump 1UZ-FE (Lexus Celsiour)....which can be picked up for anywhere between $1500-$2000....If your good with electrics the wiring can be done yourself, but allow up to a $1000 for someone else to do it.

-Sideshow is good for guys around sydney http://spw.starkie.net/

-Venom Custom Fabrications for the QLD guys http://www.venomcobras.com/index.html

Gearbox moves back around 30mm, so cross member needs to be modified, and rear driveshaft shorterned, front driveshaft is fine.

Make some new mounts off the block to mate to the existing chassis engine mounts.

Get a Bellhousing Kit from Dellow Automotive or Castlemain Rod Shop - Bout $1300 (bellhousing, flywheel, clutch, etc..) this will allow the 1UZ-FE to bolt up to the R150F 5 Speed, which is more than strong enough for the job.

The std. radiator can almost cope, but a bigger one is advised. You'll need a 16" thermo fan on front of radiator. AC Condensor needs to be relocated as it causes more overheating dramas than what its worth being in front of the radiator.

Battery needs to be relocated to passenger side.

Modify fuel lines, custom powersteer lines...new exhaust....

I think thats most things.....mine took about 3 weeks from start to finish....

[Toyo Truck]

Can you post up pics or email them to me at
bart.winter@pulseintl.com.au??

Cheers,
Bart

[hokey]

Exact same post as on toymods
good to see you are using many resources

[TWISTY]

All the pics from my swap are here
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/gallery/album285

Heres just a nice on of the engine bay but....is so much neater than the old V6.

[Toyo Truck]

Yeah Hokey,

I find you get different responses from the two boards.
OL4x4 is for a more 4WD orientated opinion.
Plus no one on toymods is really into 4WDing, so don't fully see
the kind of abuse we wheelers place on componentry, but they know
ALOT about the motors themselves and how to get the most out of them.


Cheers,
Bart

[4x4Monkey]

running tings into the ground wil only total the intire engine
when a big end goes its will send shreats of metal shards all in the engine
and possible into the engine bores which will fubar them very fast

dump the engine now of fix it now
theres no real ammmount of time cos its probly all-ready happening

[Toyo Truck]

4x4 Monkey,
Thinking now of getting rid of the 3vze and getting 1uz pwr.
Sounds as if it is terminal any way
probably best to just get everything he can out of it and start saving for engine swap.


Twisty Toy,
What is your fuel consumption like compared to the old 3VZE?
Did you use the 4 runner air con & pwr steering?
What exactly did you have to do to the engine mounts?
Did you make them or get them made?
Did you get a complete half cut or engine with loom and computer?
Was it $2000 you said you paid?

Is the wiring overly difficult... If not will give it a go

Thanks
Bart

[-Mick-]

make sure you research all the other possible conversions too mate there's stacks of options.

M Series 6's turbos and non turbos
1j and 2j motors
1gg turbo and non turbo
heaps of others

the lexus 8 is a friggin sweet motor though

this goes ok as a quick reference for compression ration, configs and power

http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/pit/ ... #AZ-series

[-Nemesis-]

I went through to Stockton last weekend, coulda had a look at mine

The engine mounts are easiest to get custom brackets made off the chassis, then use the original Lexus engine mounts etc. My mates at Hi Tech 4x4 in Penrith did my engine mounts. Let me know if you want Chris's number.

As for wiring, not sure how hard it is, but Sideshow charges $700 odd to come to you and wire the whole lot. That includes the engine ECU etc, plus all the guages and sendors etc... everything. I didn't bother trying myself for that price, and only takes him a day.

http://spw.starkie.net/

Got Quicktime? Watch this and you'll want one for him (Right click... Save As)

http://www.users.on.net/~bryntrace/1UZF ... t/Sand.MOV

[-Nemesis-]

What is your fuel consumption like compared to the old 3VZE?

Much the same. Better on the freeway, maybe a little worse round town, but only cos they sound awesome

Did you use the 4 runner air con & pwr steering?

Most engines come with the 1UZ A/C and P/S still on them, simple.

What exactly did you have to do to the engine mounts?

Above

Did you make them or get them made?.

Above

Did you get a complete half cut or engine with loom and computer?

Was it $2000 you said you paid?

$1500 for the lot less gearbox from SSS Automotive at Giraween. That included front sump Celsior (Lexus LS400) motor. Full uncut wiring harness. ECU. Full intake including air flow meter ($100's there.) And all ancilliareis (power steer pump, a/c, alternator.)

You'll need to get the slim line exhaust headers off a Crown version of the 1UZ as the high flow Celsior ones won't fit. And the best bet is a VN Commodore airbox, and adapt the 1UZ AFM to it as the !UZ airbox is too tall..

This is mine the day it finally made it to the road. Just had to put the bonnet and front back on.

[TWISTY]

Pretty much what Nem said

[+dj_hansen+]

I think ive got a chub....

[Toyo Truck]

Hi guys,

My mate has been doing a bit of calling around wreckers and stuff,

he would LOVE the Lexus V8, but pennies may forbid this,
We were thinking the best/easist way to get a new motor in this thing is
to get another 3V-ZE.

I thought the Toyota Camrys ran the 3V-ZE but in east-west config.
a few guys have told him that a Camry V6 is not the same 3V-ZE that is in the 4-runner??

Apparently it is so different it will not fit into a 4-runner???

I thought we could take all the mounts of the 4-runner 3VZE and put them on the Camry 3VZE and do the same with the intake, exhaust etc. and use the exsisting 3VZE manual bellhousing.

Would the fact that this engine was east-west in the Camry mean it could not be installed in rear wheel drive configuration??

Or is the motor in the camrys not a 3V-ZE?

Cheers,
Bart

PS. I want a Lexus V8 too now...so sweet.

[TWISTY]

Check out http://www.yotatech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1

Do a search as there is a couple of guys on there that have done it, and the question gets asked over there once a month, so you should be able to find all the info on swapping in the camry motor.

From what I've read its not as simple as you'd think, but it is doable...

[-Nemesis-]

The camry's run the 3VZFE which has completely different heads. I wouldn't have a clue as to the bottom end though. East west, and a new version may mean it has different bellhousing bolt patterns etc. Though don't quote me on it.

[-Nemesis-]

I think ive got a chub....

Joy rides for a six pack of Jimmy's

Maybe I should start one of those wannabe eBay auctions for a ride heheheh.

[Toyo Truck]

LOL I actually just got off yotatech.com before I came on here!

You're right though,
A whole bunch of blokes in the US tried to do this swap into their 4WD 4-Runners (they actually have 2WD ones in the states WTF!!!) and here are the findings...
Mostly 4WD stuff, but ALOT of info on Hilux, 4-Runners and Tacomas (sweeeeet).
But here is the gist of it, to save you $$$ on bandwidth reading through all the pages...

The 3VZFE electronics will apparently NOT work with the 3VZE motor.
also getting ignition to work is a major hassle but may be able to be done with an electronic distributor.

The 3VZFE headgaskets have different will not bolt up to the 3VZE as they have different water jackets that do not allow them to bolt up.

The intake manifold and heads are different between the two motors,
and the 3VZFE heads would be difficult to be flipped around as they are apparently directional and would take a heap of machining to do. A guy is in the process of doing this on yotatech, but he says it has been a MAJOR issue thus far.

The 3VZFE has 4 reliefs on the piston which might cause issues?

The 3VZFE is almost the same as 5VZFE but isn't bored as large.

The 3VZFE has larger rods, better connecting hardware and different pistons.

The 3VZFE has a forger steel crankshaft with 9 counterweights.
From searching, this is the 3rd largest amount of counter-balancing
of any Toyota engine (not including the new V-10).
(1GRFE has 9 - 12 counterweights, 2jz's have 12 counterweights!)
the 3VZE has only 5 counterweights??

The 3VZFE has a 9.6:1 Compression Ratio, the 3VZE is only 9.2:1!!!

Also, from what I could find, no V6 Camrys came out in Manual with the 3VZFE, so this may cause problems when bolting this motor to a manual R151F gbox found in the 4Runners.



So it would seem there are quite a few differences between a 3VZE and a 3VZFE! BUGGER
With all this in mind the Camry motor is no longer an option for this motor swap.

However, I did find alot of details on the 5VZFE swap (this is the 3.4L V6 out of the Prado)
apparently this motor will bolt up ALOT easier with alot less hassle. Has anyone done this swap at all in a 4runner or even hilux??
This would be a VERY sweet conversion for the 4-runner
And it might be a cheaper/easier option than the Lexus V8 as it would
use the same block as the 3VZFE apparantly bolts up to a R series gearbox? hmmmmm

My mate found a 3VZE for sale for $2000 with a 2 year warranty.
As this is his daily driver, and he needs it for work, this might be the
quicker option, but its up to him wether he wants to do another conversion
to a different motor.

Cheers,
Bart

[-Mick-]

I think you'll find the 5vzfe to be very expensive still at wreckers etc. I have read 4.5 - 6k just for the engine This was on the internet so may be subject to checking but a couple of sites did mention similar prices.

No doubt it would be a killer motor they're awesome 6's but way more $$$ than a 3vz

[Toyo Truck]

And by the sounds of it way more than a 1UZ too.
Halfcuts of the 1UZ cost about 2000 - 2500 depending on cond.
But the bellhousings are like $1300!!
This comes with clutch I think, but that is steep!

Where is the cheapest place that makes up 1UZ->R131 Bells?
IS $1300 the going rate for these things.

Thanks guys,
Bart

[-Nemesis-]

You don't need a half cut unless you want a gearbox. My pack I bought from SSS was everything I needed, and cost $1500.
The bellhousing kits usually cost over a grand yeah, but that will include the whole shebang: Bellhousing, custom billet flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, fork, slave, thrust bearing etc etc.....

All you need then is to get it mounted in the truck, and hook everything up. Consider spending $ on the cooling system though, cos the V6 radiator just isn't good enough, which i'm stuck knowing till I upgrade it.