Class definitions

[mike]

I tried to find the thread that was discussing this topic, but couldn't so here is a freshy.

This is the class definitions we will be using for registered vehicles in our event: You add up the points for your vehicle then find out which class your in.
4WD
200 points for 4wd
Engine Capacity (litres)
Eng cap x 160 for diesel
Eng cap x 200 for petrol
Forced Induction
Eng Cap Score X 0.3 if yes
Automatic gearbox
150 if Auto gearbox
Front Diff
100 if LSD
200 if locked
Rear Diff
100 if LSD
200 if locked
Tyre Size (Inches)
=dia – 27 x 40
Tyre types
30 if All Terrains (dot rated)
100 if Mud Terrains (dot rated)

0 to <700 1a (Mild)
700 to <1150 1b (Regular)
1150 to <1400 1c (Wild)
1400 to above 1d (Xtreme)

It's all done inside a spreadsheet which makes it pretty easy to do.
I believe it will require refinement after the event
Any thoughts?

[Hoonz]

no points for suspension???


edit: .... damn mine adds up to extreme!!!
ont do it in you head ... left the forced induction out :p
1973.6

dunno if i will have the bigger tyres by then 32" crap i have now lol


what about for the guys that have never been in a competition?

[mike]

Yeah probably should have something for suspension, but given that we were predominantly setting up for mudracing and that it'd be bloody difficult to quantify, then verify, I left it alone. Definitely open to suggestions on how it could be done tho!

I'd imagine quite a few in this group would end up "extreme"
my zook ends up "wild".

We wanted to cater for all levels. hence mild and regular classes.
For non-registered vehicles the only criteria is engine capacity.

[MKPatrolGuy]

the 4x4 points plus my engine capacity is all I need to put me into the extreme category

[Midget]

Mike
It's not a bad idea,But correct me if i'm wrong here.
Points for a standard patrol.
200 4wd+672 4.2ltr diesel+100 rear LSD+160 31" tryes+100 mud terrains=1232 which would put a standard patrol WILD class.

I think that gunna get up few peoples noses.
Me ,i drive a zook with air lockers front and rear,hilux diffs,coil conversion,33" MTR's and that adds upto 1200.
Just my thoughts.
Jamie

[moose]

the 4x4 points plus my engine capacity is all I need to put me into the extreme category

hah , , im in regular !!!!!
1000 points on the dot !!!!!

[Hoonz]

perhaps u should only get points for forced induction engines ...
not standard engines
or makes points for a diesel or petrol
and engine conversions

[MUSS]

hey dont worry bout the points system fellas just be ready for an arse whippin me ill be in the WILD class (but i thought i was pretty stock )

[mike]

the 4x4 points plus my engine capacity is all I need to put me into the extreme category

Hooly Dooly You'd need a 6 litre motor to do that
sweeet

[mike]

The only thing that we've had enter that comes out bog standard into extreme class is the Hummer which is a bit unfortunate as the damn things are so heavy.
Ideally it would've been nice to include a GVM factor here but again too dificult to verify.

Keep up the feedback guys this is exactly the info needed to fine tune for next year, (that, and the actual race results )

From last years entries
mild 16%, regular 32%, wild 39%, extreme 14%

[mike]

Mike
It's not a bad idea,But correct me if i'm wrong here.
Points for a standard patrol.
200 4wd+672 4.2ltr diesel+100 rear LSD+160 31" tryes+100 mud terrains=1232 which would put a standard patrol WILD class.

I think that gunna get up few peoples noses.
Me ,i drive a zook with air lockers front and rear,hilux diffs,coil conversion,33" MTR's and that adds upto 1200.
Just my thoughts.
Jamie

I thought the patrol comes standard with HTs which would put it in regular class as bog standard (1132)
even so, he'd be racing against other patrols etc. It's not so much what class you end up in, as what you'll be racing against. In your example you'd be racing against each other. From what I've seen that'd be a pretty cool match up. Fair? not sure yet but I hope so! The goal is close, fun racing for all. After this years event we'll have some good data to feed back into the formulas.
This events formula is set, but all this feedback will be used for refinement in subsequent events. So keep it comin!! thanks!!

[Hoonz]

but dont u think standard vehicals should race against other standard vehicals?

[Heyder]

I did a calculation on mine out of interests sake and came up at 2390.. You might want to consider expanding the limits for the classes a tad, as whilst I can accept that I'd end up in that class, that's a long way over the limit..

[mike]

but dont u think standard vehicals should race against other standard vehicals?

That's sorta what started the whole thing in the first place.
What is "standard", many vehicles come ex-factory with standard options such as LSD, turbo etc. It definitely aint fair to put some guy in his standard diesel hilux, up against a standard fully locked Hummer. Close racing is the goal!

I did a calculation on mine out of interests sake and came up at 2390.. You might want to consider expanding the limits for the classes a tad, as whilst I can except that I'd end up in that class, that's a long way over the limit..

Agreed. The problem is keeping the number of classes down. Because we have 5 or 6 unregistered classes (A4WDMRA rules) I tried to keep the overall number of classes down. Ideally I reckon you would have have 5-6 classes total and all judged under the same criteria.

I did a chart of vehicle scores before doing the class breaks. and for the type of vehicles we get entered the distribution through the classes seemed about right. We just don't get to many registered vehicles of your type entering, from last years entrants a fully locked turbo Maverick on 33 MTs was the highest scorer under this system at 2032 points.

Whilst it means that there's still some disparity between the top and bottom of each class I believe we're heading in the right direction.

[MUSS]

so how many classes are ther likely to be? and is ther gonna be first second and third prizes? any idea what the prizes are likely to be if there are any?

[Bodge]

Love the idea of a points system but I think they do need some tweaking...

A standard 3.5 auto rangie with 29" All terrains is 1160 = WILD !!! unless I am totally messing up the arithmetic...

More like lame

[mike]

Love the idea of a points system but I think they do need some tweaking...

A standard 3.5 auto rangie with 29" All terrains is 1160 = WILD !!! unless I am totally messing up the arithmetic...

More like lame

yup it's the auto that pushes into that class (Class 1c)
would it help if I said "forget about the class names"
It seems that people are getting hung up on these titles when the key is who'll you be racing against. Are the ratios between the various specifications/modifications/traction aids correct?

The names are pure fluff if you want instead of:
mild call it bernaise
regular call it orange
wild call it shoelace
xtreme call it ceiling fan

Or have I got it completely wrong?

[mike]

so how many classes are ther likely to be? and is ther gonna be first second and third prizes? any idea what the prizes are likely to be if there are any?

there are 4 registered category classes (technically, sub-classes of A4WDMRA Class 1)
1a 1b 1c 1d

and 6 non-registered classes (as per A4WDMRA specs)
2,3,4,5,6,7
I'd guess that we'll have no class 2 entrants, few if any class3 entrants, with most of the non registered falling into 4,5 & 6

We are still finalising prizes with sponsors. but there will be at least trophies for 1st and runner up in each class or sub-class we run.

[Bodge]

Its not an easy thing you are trying to do but I think its engine size that seems to be throwing things out of wack... For mud style events it will be partly about power but also tyre size and locking diffs will be crucial.

You don't want too much advantage to go to the Zuks

[mike]

Its not an easy thing you are trying to do but I think its engine size that seems to be throwing things out of wack... For mud style events it will be partly about power but also tyre size and locking diffs will be crucial.

You don't want too much advantage to go to the Zuks

I tend to agree with you. at first I used engine size to spread out the results and then adjusted the other factors to suit, but it may be a little to weighted here. for mud racing, tyres have a big effect these probably should have carried a bigger score , horsepower does have a significant effect. Maybe a lower initial factor for engine capacity but a higher multiplier for forced induction as this will affect the power to weight ratio ?
(along the lines of Terrafirmas earlier post)

edit: Bugger, that doesn't work well for engine swaos...
Hate to do it cos it makes it more complicated it's possible to use original engine size and new engine size to work out a factor, (ie no change would come out as 1 ) But again VERY complicated when it comes to vehicles with a range of engine options

[Bris_GU]

One other point, what about competition spec tyres?

In mud there is a big step again from say BF Goodrich Mud Terrains to Simex Extreme Trekker "Centipede" tyres.

All the best

Ian