Would you go 6inch spring, or 4 inch spring and a 2inch block and why?
Vehicle is a GQ Patrol tray being used in Comps such as winch challenges. Tyres run on the vehicle will be 36 inch max.
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Lift question?
Moderators: toaddog, TWISTY, V8Patrol, Moderators
Lift question?
Last edited by Drafty on Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Joe.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
I see 8 people have voted for a 6" lift. But i guess they dont know why they would go with the 6" lift as they havent said why they would do this 
I voted 4" and Blocks because to go 6" in springs you will be loosing down travel as well as up travel due to coil bind or shocks bottoming out.
You are looking at doing Winch style events so you are planning on a lot of Fast stages and off camber work and keeping the heavy parts(Motor/Box/Tcase) low will do you much better.
If it were me however i would go with 4" and no blocks and modify the firewall to accomodate the tyres.
I voted 4" and Blocks because to go 6" in springs you will be loosing down travel as well as up travel due to coil bind or shocks bottoming out.
You are looking at doing Winch style events so you are planning on a lot of Fast stages and off camber work and keeping the heavy parts(Motor/Box/Tcase) low will do you much better.
If it were me however i would go with 4" and no blocks and modify the firewall to accomodate the tyres.
Joe, I guess it depends on what you want. A body lift is more effective for getting on larger tyres and allowing more suspension travel than a spring lift.
If you are just going for outright height I'd say 6" spring but if you want to change things to get greater flex and much larger tyres I'd say 4 + 2.
Spring lifts always sag over time anyway so that is something to account for a body lift stays as is.
If you are just going for outright height I'd say 6" spring but if you want to change things to get greater flex and much larger tyres I'd say 4 + 2.
Spring lifts always sag over time anyway so that is something to account for a body lift stays as is.
I just luv my "clacker Jabber"
The centre of gravity issue is something that l did think about as l dont like side angles, the negative aspect of this is that chasis and running gear sits a little lower and is more prone to damage from rocks.
Its good to hear different points of view and logic, thanks guys.
Joe.
Its good to hear different points of view and logic, thanks guys.
Joe.
Joe.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
LIFT = FLOP!!!!
I am with RUFF, i voted 4+2 however given the choice i would just do the spring lift without the body lift!
I know every one thinks that a BIG lift and Big tyres are the way to go but there is always a point of too far!
Keep it low and the suspension will have more USABLE travel.
The body getting damaged by rocks wouldn't be a major concern as it will have plenty of protection anyway!
I am with RUFF, i voted 4+2 however given the choice i would just do the spring lift without the body lift!
I know every one thinks that a BIG lift and Big tyres are the way to go but there is always a point of too far!
Keep it low and the suspension will have more USABLE travel.
The body getting damaged by rocks wouldn't be a major concern as it will have plenty of protection anyway!
hypolux wrote:i voted 4 + 2
as i agree with tony bout keeping the majority of weight lower
HYPO votes for this yet the lux is sittin idle with bout 12"
of lift happenin at the front end and bout 10 " at the rear 
Yet i would no wait i AM goin 5" springs 2" body in the mav
And if it goes flop as it prob will ,wen eva it gets on the trails ( particulary with HYPO spottin 4 me 
) it getz chopped i guess 
But as it stands drafty go the 4" and 2" body as metioned 4 clearance and stability even though you could prob run a smaller b lift and still clear as Jk (dirtpigs) has with his gq and clears his new 36"s
I voted 4" springs, 2" body lift if that's what you mean by blocks.
Again, like said before, to try to reduce raising the c of g as much as posible
What about steering geometry, control arm, panhard rod and prop shaft angles?
4" would keep these a bit closer to OE, but I guess you will have to get a kit to modify some of these elements. And 4" could be less mods than 6"? (or don't those 2 extra inches matter much for a Nissan?).
Sorry in this regard I only know about my own Jeep , where the difference between 4 and 6" springs would make a huge difference to the compexity of the lift. Just trying to raise some points that have not been discussed yet.
Again, like said before, to try to reduce raising the c of g as much as posible
What about steering geometry, control arm, panhard rod and prop shaft angles?
4" would keep these a bit closer to OE, but I guess you will have to get a kit to modify some of these elements. And 4" could be less mods than 6"? (or don't those 2 extra inches matter much for a Nissan?).
Sorry in this regard I only know about my own Jeep
, where the difference between 4 and 6" springs would make a huge difference to the compexity of the lift. Just trying to raise some points that have not been discussed yet.
so your options as stated were:
6" spring OR
4" Spring and 2" body
Tony and Adrian and others are saying 4" spring, no body. So a nett gain of 4" of lift.
I would say if you are going to do that and get the tyres to fit, go for a 2" Spring lift and a 2" body lift and really cut the inner guards and stuff. (Comp rig, why not be stable) Doesnt need the look. 2" springs are CHEAPER than larger lift ones. They are also going to keeep within spec, so you wont need all the adjustable panhards and caster correction plates, and whatever else to make it drive like stock again. No need to lower the gearbox (reducing clearance) chuck a big skid under there and really go hard!
6" spring OR
4" Spring and 2" body
Tony and Adrian and others are saying 4" spring, no body. So a nett gain of 4" of lift.
I would say if you are going to do that and get the tyres to fit, go for a 2" Spring lift and a 2" body lift and really cut the inner guards and stuff. (Comp rig, why not be stable) Doesnt need the look. 2" springs are CHEAPER than larger lift ones. They are also going to keeep within spec, so you wont need all the adjustable panhards and caster correction plates, and whatever else to make it drive like stock again. No need to lower the gearbox (reducing clearance) chuck a big skid under there and really go hard!
hands and mums dont count!!!
I haven't voted for anyhting, because I haven't met you and don't know how or what you drive. 
But:
The vehicle is a GQ trayback, so tyre clearance isn't really a problem. The only place you will need to cut if you run a small combined lift is the guard behind the front wheel. The firewall will be well clear. If you start to build in heaps of travel you will be closwer to the radiator support panel than the firewall.
These things are very low slung. 4" coils and 31's will see you with less belly clearance than a standard height Hilux on 31's (excluding the T/Case crossmember on the hilux)
If it was a wagon I would run a body lift to save butchering the floor in the back to get room to tub the guards, but for a tray just throw some coils in, move the front axle forward a bit, swap out the rear panhard for another location method (helps heaps with both stability and keeping the axle under the car rather than jammed into one side of it), and call it good??
But:
The vehicle is a GQ trayback, so tyre clearance isn't really a problem. The only place you will need to cut if you run a small combined lift is the guard behind the front wheel. The firewall will be well clear. If you start to build in heaps of travel you will be closwer to the radiator support panel than the firewall.
These things are very low slung. 4" coils and 31's will see you with less belly clearance than a standard height Hilux on 31's (excluding the T/Case crossmember on the hilux)
If it was a wagon I would run a body lift to save butchering the floor in the back to get room to tub the guards, but for a tray just throw some coils in, move the front axle forward a bit, swap out the rear panhard for another location method (helps heaps with both stability and keeping the axle under the car rather than jammed into one side of it), and call it good??
i have gone 4" springs, and 1" cab lift on my GU and i have enough clearance for 35-14.5-15 boggers.
the tray i am making is sort of like the old land rovers, with the box sections on each side to keep the centre of the tray low (CoG) so in front and behind the rear wheels you can make in storage boxes for stuff.
i did some calculations a few years a go on body V's suspension lift using a GQ wagon, and it worked out to an raise the CoG ~10mm per 25mm of body lift
and
~20mm per 25mm of suspension lift (depending on tyres and rims)
so for a 4" suspension lift with a 2" body lift you are lifting your CoG ~ 100mm
V's
~ 120mm for a 6" suspension lift
it don’t sound like much but it adds up especially on a 20deg cross slope
the tray i am making is sort of like the old land rovers, with the box sections on each side to keep the centre of the tray low (CoG) so in front and behind the rear wheels you can make in storage boxes for stuff.
i did some calculations a few years a go on body V's suspension lift using a GQ wagon, and it worked out to an raise the CoG ~10mm per 25mm of body lift
and
~20mm per 25mm of suspension lift (depending on tyres and rims)
so for a 4" suspension lift with a 2" body lift you are lifting your CoG ~ 100mm
V's
~ 120mm for a 6" suspension lift
it don’t sound like much but it adds up especially on a 20deg cross slope
[quote="COOP"] By the way Mr engineering Guru maybe you better get another calculator or learn how to use it![/quote]
www.indurooffroad.com
44mm and 38mm Roll Cage Tube
Eibach Springs SAW Shocks
www.indurooffroad.com
44mm and 38mm Roll Cage Tube
Eibach Springs SAW Shocks
A well designed 6" coil will bind only 35mm longer than an off-the-shelf 4" coil. Yet they can drop at least a further 100mm.
However, I agree that 4" coils will be less complicated and more stable. Is the extra travel worth the extra hassle?
If you run 4" total or less you are more likely to drag your bum over every rock, and smashing your bullbar into rocks too. Stock GQs are disgustingly low.
Also theres no point fitting long shocks and coils if your suspension limits the cycle. As wendle said, on a GQ ute you won't have too many body fouling issues.
However, I agree that 4" coils will be less complicated and more stable. Is the extra travel worth the extra hassle?
If you run 4" total or less you are more likely to drag your bum over every rock, and smashing your bullbar into rocks too. Stock GQs are disgustingly low.
Also theres no point fitting long shocks and coils if your suspension limits the cycle. As wendle said, on a GQ ute you won't have too many body fouling issues.
Thanks guys. 4 inch spring lift it is for the moment, and will fine tune with blocks if required. In regards to all the steering and other arms we have those already in the workshop. On the wagon we had 4 + 2 but that was a much heavier vehicle.
Joe.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
To succeed, focus on the solution, not the problem.
4+2
Because it's not gonna lift your CG as much, should prevent all that pogoing and sideways flexing you see on really long coil springs, and of course finally the 6" suspension lift will allow less tyre clearance than 4+2 when the suspension is working hard (major upward compression).
Also should be better on driveshaftangles and wear.
That's my theory anyway. Happy to be proven wrong.
Because it's not gonna lift your CG as much, should prevent all that pogoing and sideways flexing you see on really long coil springs, and of course finally the 6" suspension lift will allow less tyre clearance than 4+2 when the suspension is working hard (major upward compression).
Also should be better on driveshaftangles and wear.
That's my theory anyway. Happy to be proven wrong.
bj on roids wrote:so your options as stated were:
6" spring OR
4" Spring and 2" body
Tony and Adrian and others are saying 4" spring, no body. So a nett gain of 4" of lift.
!
Have you considered 2" Coil + 4" Body. I ran this combo for 3 years on my GQ wagon and had it on some insane side slopes and didn't look like rolling once. It's cheaper again and they guy that bought my GQ is still running the same setup in Winch Challenges and Tuff Truck etc. If you use 100 x 100 MM body blocks you also have no problems with it pushing thru the floor.
Just an idea. If you want I even have 8 Blocks and bolts here to suit with nylocks and everything.
[quote="Wooders"]If ya want a 4x4 camry go ahead & buy a Patrol or Cruiser.[/quote]Rangie with 80s LC diffs, Isuzu 4bd1, Twin ARB lockers, 8000lb Hi mount warn, 315x75x16 Procomp XTerrains
i would go the 6" spring lift because the chassis and cross members are always hitting on my 7" lift and 4" would be heaps worse.
the front overhang is also a big problem but the rear usually drag through most things easily.
fit some gu diffs to get around the COG [at least a front one as the front controls the attitude of the truck and the CV's are stronger as well]
Have had a GQ with 7" springs,1"spacers, 2"body lift and 35's and it was shocking offroad, now i have a GU with 8" front springs, 7"rear springs[makes it level when unloaded] 40mm offset wheels and 38's and its pretty stable
shane
PS if it was a shorty i would go the 4"+2" as the chassis clearance is much better and i like to keep the COG as low as practical
the front overhang is also a big problem but the rear usually drag through most things easily.
fit some gu diffs to get around the COG [at least a front one as the front controls the attitude of the truck and the CV's are stronger as well]
Have had a GQ with 7" springs,1"spacers, 2"body lift and 35's and it was shocking offroad, now i have a GU with 8" front springs, 7"rear springs[makes it level when unloaded] 40mm offset wheels and 38's and its pretty stable
shane
PS if it was a shorty i would go the 4"+2" as the chassis clearance is much better and i like to keep the COG as low as practical
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Please explain how this works, l have a GU front diff sitting in my shed.GU front diff is wider than the GQ front diff and fits straight in , some guys then fit the GU steering box [ supposed to be stronger and pitman arm is lower] and some just get the steering rod changed to GU one end/GQ other end
[wizard performance will make you one]
GU CV's are also much stronger!!
shane
[wizard performance will make you one]
GU CV's are also much stronger!!
shane
[url=http://bigred.redbubble.com/][color=red][b]You can follow me but its gunna hurt ![/b][/color][/url]
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