Should I buy a Prado, or modify the Grand vitara?

[tsandu]

Hi all, been a lurker for a while, but have decided to post since I cant make up my mind..

I currently have a 1999 LWB grand vitara 2.5L v6 manual. Its got about 115,000km on the clock.. I have done some light 4wd'ing.. frazer island .. blue mountains, jenolovan caves, koziosko, etc. Also I tow a 20" boat with it for short distances. Most of the driving is on roads, with the od 4wd trip on weekends when i have a chance. The car shows its "small 4wd" limitations specially on soft sand driving where it runs out of steam as well as clearance.

As I have had the car for about 4 years now, was looking at upgrading later this year.. Was looking at a 2003'ish 4L v6 manual prado, and at a min would require $15k extra. Thats for a bigger 4wd with more 4wd ability, more comfortable on the road, more comfortable for wife and baby, better towing ability, etc.. With the petrol prices as they are however.. am having 2nd thoughts..

Now i am wondering if i should just spend $500 on a 2" taller springs, maybe get diff lockers for about $3k for both diffs and $500 for a new stereo (to atleast feel like a "new car").. and keep it.. if i do this i would keep it for atleast abother 3 years.. so probably will get to the 180,000km mark.. I cant do to much about more power.. and putting new extrators and exhaust which is abouut $2k for bugger all improvement isnt money well spent in my books.

what are your thoughs and experiences.. is spending the extra 15k moving to a 4 year newer bigger 4wd.. a prado.. worthwhile? Or should i save some money and keep the grand vitara.. modify it abit to get a bit more ground clearance, and traction.. how do the 2.5L v6's survive with 200,000km on them ? or should i just see this as an oportunity to buy a front cut xl7, and get the 2.7L put in the grand vitara?

[Goatse.AJ]

Can't comment on the lifespan of the V6, but you'll find that a 2" lift and a set of 235/75 R15 Muddies will transform the vehicle's offroad capabilities without compromising power too much.

Shop around on the exhaust. I don't know if Hurricane makes extractors for the V6, but their ones for the four cylinder make a noticable improvement.

Similarly, shop around for your suspension lift. Big Balls Offroad does a decent kit for the GV. You can install the rear yourself with minimal tools or mechanical experience. For the front, I was lazy and paid my local mechanic to struggle with the coils....I bent my coil compressors.

Other than the consideration for towing the boat, I'd personally stick with the GV.

[tsandu]

i was not going to change the diameter of the tyres, as this throws your speedo out of whack (spelt more speeding fines), and also how does insurance deal with it? Is there a "cog" you can change to adjust the speedo's or how do you guys live with the speedo out of whack?

Anyone used suzisport parts? 4 springs with 35-50mm raise are $350 also they have dif lockers for $350 for rear..

any other good gv part supply in aus with a web site ?

thanks for the info.. so we have a +1 for the gv, and 0 on the prado

[Beastmavster]

Considering what I've seen a GV LWB on 29" rubber achieve (dual lockers but) I have to say that with fuel prices where they are it's pretty hard to justify going to a big 4by right now.

As an ex Vitara owner (31"s, 2" suspension, 1" body lift etc) I'm still disappointed with what my lifted Maverick (GQ Patrol) does relative to what my Vitara did...... and at about 3 times the fuel cost......


In stock form the Vitara does loose out due to it's ground clearance but a bit of lift would go a long way. When I went to 30" muddies a whole new world opened up that regularly saw me doing the same stuff that lifted big trucks did.

You may not always go further, but you wont be very far behind.

And onroad the bigger 4wd is a pig.

However, if you have towing to do then you might wish to considerthe bigger rig - towing a trailer is almost unnoticable behind a big 4wd.




As a 1999 model you would need to use 16" wheels - probably something like 215/80/16 (about 28.5"), 245/70/16 (29") or similar. Anything much over that will cause you clearance greif on your wheel arches.

If you want some vids of my old vit in action PM me.

[Goatse.AJ]

If you're going for a single locker, particularly in a vehicle with IFS, then go for one in the front. I think *most* people will agree that'll give you more bang for your buck.

Springs alone will give you worthwhile lift, but make sure you get longer travel shocks for the rear, otherwise you're really wasting your time and money.

Larger tyres will make a big improvement to ground clearance and offroad capability. I found the 235/75 to be a good compromise, and I believe they're legal for insurance purposes. Ask in the Suzuki forum for details on speedo adjustment options.

[Beastmavster]

Vitaras are possible one of those cases where the extra flex available in the back with much longer than standard will astound many drivers. I know I popped peoples eyes many a time.

The genuine shocks are mega restrictive.

In a later (steel front diff) vitara a front locker can be good. In an early alloy diff then the jury is out. Some people say it causes diff breakage, others say it prevents it.

AJ, as he's got a late model it's a 16" rim one. As such the usual 235/75/15 is not possible. He'd need the equivalent 16" rim 29" tyre.

[chimpboy]

Vitaras are possible one of those cases where the extra flex available in the back with much longer than standard will astound many drivers. I know I popped peoples eyes many a time.

I also recall you popping a SPRING out one time! That rear coil just fell right out on full flex... of course that proves your point - longer shocks allow a lot of travel, enough for even an overlength spring to make an escape attempt.

[Beastmavster]

That was a once off and I knew it was a risk


Strangely enough thats the price of running almost 8" longer shocks and 2" longer springs

[Heathx4]

how do you guys live with the speedo out of whack?

Say you go from 27" to 30". That's 11% greater circumference. So with the bigger tyres, when you see 60 on the dial you're really doing 66. When you see 80, you're really doing 88, 100 means 110, and so on. If you weren't 100% confident on your speedo in the first place, either borrow a GPS and confirm, or trust your odometer and find an odometer test area on a highway somewhere.

If you change tyre size, figure out how far from a 10% change in circumference it is, and fudge it from there. It'll be second nature before long.

A bit of liquid paper on the dial is a bodgy solution, but may help drivers other than yourself.

Or buy a GPS and mount it permanently.

Or lastly, most vehicles have a cog change option, offering the most legitimate solution, but it's often not cheap or easy.

[chimpboy]

how do you guys live with the speedo out of whack?

Say you go from 27" to 30". That's 11% greater circumference. So with the bigger tyres, when you see 60 on the dial you're really doing 66. When you see 80, you're really doing 88, 100 means 110, and so on. If you weren't 100% confident on your speedo in the first place, either borrow a GPS and confirm, or trust your odometer and find an odometer test area on a highway somewhere.

If you change tyre size, figure out how far from a 10% change in circumference it is, and fudge it from there. It'll be second nature before long.

A bit of liquid paper on the dial is a bodgy solution, but may help drivers other than yourself.

Or buy a GPS and mount it permanently.

Or lastly, most vehicles have a cog change option, offering the most legitimate solution, but it's often not cheap or easy.

Or, lastly lastly, you can get a ratio box - a small gearbox that will correct the speedo pretty much as accurately as you want. These cost about $100.

Jason

[cj]

I'd suggest investigating the Old Man Emu suspension as it works nicely (improves it on the road ) and will suit the type of offroad work you seem to be doing.

As the GV doesn't even have a LSD I would look at a rear locker first. A front locker helps to overcome the problem of IFS and lifting wheels but you will still be better off going with the rear first in this case.
Yes, you are lucky in that you have the steel front diff housing as standard but you also lose out in the fact that you don't have the option of crawler gears as the manual has a different output spline.

You may want to look at tyre sizes such as 235/70R16 (29") or 225/75R16 (29.5").

As you are running 4.3 diff ratios you could swap to 4.6 ratios and be back to your current performance and speedo readings with these tyres.

You may find that your speedo reads incorrectly anyway. Mine was out by 5%. Putting on slightly larger tyres corrected it.

[cj]

...and the motor should be good for at least 300,000 km with regular oil changes and using the correct oil.

[Jeeps]

how do you guys live with the speedo out of whack?

Say you go from 27" to 30". That's 11% greater circumference. So with the bigger tyres, when you see 60 on the dial you're really doing 66. When you see 80, you're really doing 88, 100 means 110, and so on. If you weren't 100% confident on your speedo in the first place, either borrow a GPS and confirm, or trust your odometer and find an odometer test area on a highway somewhere.

If you change tyre size, figure out how far from a 10% change in circumference it is, and fudge it from there. It'll be second nature before long.

A bit of liquid paper on the dial is a bodgy solution, but may help drivers other than yourself.

Or buy a GPS and mount it permanently.

Or lastly, most vehicles have a cog change option, offering the most legitimate solution, but it's often not cheap or easy.

I found that when i went from 29" tyres to 31" tyres my speedo is out about 3-4klm at 60klm and about 8-9klm at 100klm.

The only disadvantage of the vitaras i see is the lack of torque as they are designed to rev. I've seen one or two really struggle on the beach because the owners (of brand new ones) were too afraid to get up in the rev range.

[tsandu]

hmm so looks like may keep he zook...
give it a 2" lift.. will keep tyres as are for now (have grandtrek's on it)
give it a difflock..
see how we go from there..

hmm so any comments on the diffloks that suzisports sell for the 350-400 mark?

[Beastmavster]

Dunno about the difflocks suzisport sell... most likely it's a powertrax/lockrite type thing. If you're talking daily driver it's an unpleasant thing to have in the rear.


At least in the front it doesnt stuff up your daily driver effectiveness, but front ones are kind of a fudged thing using sierra bits as well.

Considering you own a $15k ish car, spend the money on doing it right - either an LSD or an ARB airlocker.


Gearing options exist up to the very common 5.125 diffs (and even aftermarket 5.71's) so correction of gearing is easy in a GV. This will correct your speedo and also give you your original crawl ratio back.



Yeah, Vitaras dont have lots of torque but they love to rev. they get there in the traditional suzi way.... lots of noise and lots of wheelspin

[P_Byrne]

I think the difflocks for that price are a minispool type, and are a permanant locking device - not the best option for a Daily Driven GV...